What happens to AI if CA removes torches ?

[baptistus]

Naval invasion at Roman fortress. Having to use torches to get in.

and this battle looks horrible and stupid ! a shame for this kind of game it could happen.
So if CA adds jetpack instead of the torches, you will say "don't remove the jetpack, it is the only way to attack a fortress during a naval invasion"
There is a lot of ideas instead of this stupid torches. Ladders can be transport in ships without any problem for example and could appear right after the units are on the beach.
And if you loose all your siege equipments : withdraw !why every siege battle should be win or lost ?..

[Humble Warrior]

a Ladders can be transport in ships without any problem for example and could appear right after the units are on the beach.
And if you loose all your siege equipments : withdraw !why every siege battle should be win or lost ?..

Actually, that`s not a bad idea, baptitus. Once a ship beaches the ladder could `appear` on the shore to simulate it coming off the boats.

It`s nice to see people contributing positive ideas.

[Anna_Gein]

The AI will possibly break.

simply because you have removed a pointer, one that is very used by the AI during sieges. Im not saying that this is an essential mechanic, Im simply pointing out from a coding pov.

Or on the opposite it may remove this possibilities which has always confuse the AI and force it to use siege equipment.

I ma convince the whole problem with the AI (not) handling siege equipment or attacking the wall is precisely caused by the torch. We have seen multiple times that it was indeed confusing the Ai (that's the reason why the AI crashed from times to times and took no action in offensive siege). For some reason CA failed to make the the torch a truly last resort initiative for the AI. Should it be removed, we would probably be able to see the rest, the overwhelming majority of the siege AI coding. Be it for the better or the worst.

[karamazovmm]

Or on the opposite it may remove this possibilities which has always confuse the AI and force it to use siege equipment.

I ma convince the whole problem with the AI (not) handling siege equipment or attacking the wall is precisely caused by the torch. We have seen multiple times that it was indeed confusing the Ai (that's the reason why the AI crashed from times to times and took no action in offensive siege). For some reason CA failed to make the the torch a truly last resort initiative for the AI. Should it be removed, we would probably be able to see the rest, the overwhelming majority of the siege AI coding. Be it for the better or the worst.

That's not how coding works.

[AnthoniusII]

Hello .

Have you ever asked yourself this question ?


What will the AI do if torches are gone ?

Will the AI reuse it's ladders , towers , etc ?

Will they send only 4 forces to fight and the rest of the army stays outside ?

or ... ?

Simple...AI wont attack to gates...and it will attack walled settlements only near the end of the timeframe of the game!

[Sebidee]

I think before the patch they would have been unable to take cities with out torches but now I think they could do it. I think a last resort for when all siege weaponry is destroyed would still be useful though.

[Humble Warrior]

I think before the patch they would have been unable to take cities with out torches but now I think they could do it. I think a last resort for when all siege weaponry is destroyed would still be useful though.

I understand your point, but no. If you run out of siege weapons the battle`s over, come back next time.

In fact, in one of my testing of the beta this is exactly what happened when I killed all the soldier AI and only the cavalry were left- the battle ended with a win for me. This is exactly what should happen and gives me great hope that CA are going to implement this fully.

[Anna_Gein]

That's not how coding works.

Yet that's how CA explained to the public why the AI freeze on occasions during siege.

[stevehoos]

CA would never do it, all we can hope for perhaps is that it is not a hard coded feature in the future. I have other games to play though.

[riskymonk]

Yes baptist us if CA are willing to do insta generals, insta torches, insta transport ships and just go insta with their decisions in order to appeal to the causal market then I agree, we should see insta ladders. It wouldn't be weird in a game like this.

[Ltd.]

I understand your point, but no. If you run out of siege weapons the battle`s over, come back next time.

In fact, in one of my testing of the beta this is exactly what happened when I killed all the soldier AI and only the cavalry were left- the battle ended with a win for me. This is exactly what should happen and gives me great hope that CA are going to implement this fully.

Or it would be even better if the AI could dismount its cavalry, like it could do in Shogun2. In R2 I have never seen this happen, although it would add a lot to the game, in sieges even more so.

[baptistus]

Yes baptist us if CA are willing to do insta generals, insta torches, insta transport ships and just go insta with their decisions in order to appeal to the causal market then I agree, we should see insta ladders. It wouldn't be weird in a game like this.

In "my own" rome 2 total war, it will be not be possible to land on a beach and to attack a city with walls during the same battle (except if you already have an army on the land). So one battle to land on the beach and after that, the siege begin if you win this battle.

[Sebidee]

Or it would be even better if the AI could dismount its cavalry, like it could do in Shogun2. In R2 I have never seen this happen, although it would add a lot to the game, in sieges even more so.

Well, I think the AI should know when to retreat. Most cavalry in the game is pretty weak on foot (which is accurate). If it's infantry has been killed on the wall then they shouldn't suicide their cavalry and general. They should use it as the backbone of the next army that they return with in a few turns. Do the AI retreat if they are able? I don't really remember.

[Causeless]

Apparently they retreat if they've used all their infantry and other units and failed to penetrate the walls. They only use torches as a VERY LAST resort.

[Epic28]

In every other previous game (never played Shogun 2) the enemy would withdraw its units upon losing all siege equipment.

That was actually my marquise strategy for defending against sieges was to use fire arrows/boiling oil/watchtowers in hopes all siege equip would catch fire and burn up so that the AI army would retreat themselves and the battle would result in a draw (at least I think the game considered it as a draw).

This made more sense that the system in place now. A last resort shouldn't be to completely risk losing your entire army to stand in front of the gates sustaining mass casualties under fire while attempting to burn open a gate and flood in under one bottlenecked entry.

[Ano2]

What they should do is make it so you get a free ram in addition to 4 ladders. Then the AI really would have zero use for torches.

[Epic28]

What they should do is make it so you get a free ram in addition to 4 ladders. Then the AI really would have zero use for torches.

What they should do is make it like every previous title where they had to build siege equipment throughout turns to attempt to assault a city. No insta-sieges. But of course because CA created this 1 tpy campaign it seems odd and unrealistic to wait a full year to build a battering ram. Yet completely normal for an army to march thousands of miles from their city. Fight into enemy territory. And finally siege and capture a city with no artillery or need to rest.

[Humble Warrior]

What they should do is make it like every previous title where they had to build siege equipment throughout turns to attempt to assault a city. No insta-sieges. But of course because CA created this 1 tpy campaign it seems odd and unrealistic to wait a full year to build a battering ram. Yet completely normal for an army to march thousands of miles from their city. Fight into enemy territory. And finally siege and capture a city with no artillery or need to rest.

Hey, you`re preaching to the choir, pal. Unfortunately, we are way past redesigning the engine and just have to make do fixing the car the best we can.

Or trying to help CA fix it- if they listen that is.

[Epic28]

Hey, you`re preaching to the choir, pal. Unfortunately, we are way past redesigning the engine and just have to make do fixing the car the best we can.

Or trying to help CA fix it- if they listen that is.

Well right, I don't expect their basic design concepts to change.

But I did notice a small patch note regarding the AI now holds out longer to maintain a siege, which to me is a great gameplay fix (addition), if it functions properly. Albeit I know little regarding if this means they will actually construct siege equipment during these turns or if it simply is from a pure attrition standpoint.

[karamazovmm]

Yet that's how CA explained to the public why the AI freeze on occasions during siege.

No it isn't.