1800 year old church burned in Mosul! + Shrine of Jonah destroyed

[alhoon]

http://news.yahoo.com/isis-torches-1...194750912.html


And to think, Muslims consider Jesus one of their most important prophets.

Destroying a church that's nearly 2 millennia old isn't just a religious act of hate; they destroy history.
ISIS also expelled Christians, without a chance to pay the "Christian tax" that is allowed by Islam. I.e. they don't act just as savage fanatics, but they act as savage HYPOCRITE haters.


EDIT:
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/24/is...biblical-site/

ISIS blew up a shrine dedicated to Jonah! Which was actually... a mosque since Jonah is worshiped by both Muslims and Christians.
Can someone please tell me why ISIS is blowing up -MUSLIM- holy places? Jonah is worshipped by Sunnis too.

[Roma_Victrix]

Charming behavior. Especially considering the usual method of dealing with churches in the past was to simply convert them into mosques. Nope, not this time. This is a clear statement of hatred. Welcome to the Islamic State of Smelly Barbarians! One is immediately reminded of the Buddhas of Bamiyan in Afghanistan, dynamited by the Taliban in early 2001.

To be honest, though, one should be just as outraged when they bomb old medieval shrines and mosques belonging to Shia Islam. Sunni insurgents have been doing this more or less since the toppling of Saddam.

And I hate to call out the Islamic faith about this, since other faiths (Christian denominations included) in the past have committed crimes like this against those of other faiths, but it is the only religion today with adherents destroying the ancient cultural relics belonging to people of other faiths. Time for a little introspection, I think.

Of course, some random Muslim shopkeeper in Dearborn, Michigan doesn't have to answer that. I'm more or less aiming that comment at the Sunni Muslims who actively excuse ISIS or their behavior. *Cough, cough, Saudis, cough, cough.*

[alhoon]

They also destroy Shia mosques? Why? Can't they just convert them?

[hellheaven1987]

They also destroy Shia mosques? Why? Can't they just convert them?

The upkeep is too high.

[IrishBlood]

They also destroy Shia mosques? Why? Can't they just convert them?

sends a message to the heritics!

[tarvu]

And I hate to call out the Islamic faith about this, since other faiths (Christian denominations included) in the past have committed crimes like this against those of other faiths, but it is the only religion today with adherents destroying the ancient cultural relics belonging to people of other faiths. Time for a little introspection, I think.

That is only because fundamentalist Christians are restrained throughout most of the world and are not given the type of power that ISIS or the Taliban had over their societies which are now largely secular. In the powder keg that is the Middle East of course the situation for religious extremists is unique.

It doesn't really call for introspection about the Muslim faith, the average Muslim's faith has nothing to do with this kind of terrorism. There is plenty of interest among Christians for this kind of violence against other faiths, extremists within groups like Hutaree, the NLFT or Nagaland in India, Joseph Konee, or a dozen other groups in the US and Europe who would love to accomplish what ISIS has but simply can't because they lack the support needed.

Thank god they are the fringe, at least for now. But with violent reactionaries in places like Russia, Uganda, and others rallying people around their "Christian identity" there is no guarantee that we will not see large scale religious violence once again perpetrated by Christians in decades to come.

[Roma_Victrix]

The upkeep is too high.

^ Here's an ISIS spokesperson in one of their latest press conferences held in Mosul.

That is only because fundamentalist Christians are restrained throughout most of the world and are not given the type of power that ISIS or the Taliban had over their societies which are now largely secular. In the powder keg that is the Middle East of course the situation for religious extremists is unique.

That's a fair statement.

It doesn't really call for introspection about the Muslim faith, the average Muslim's faith has nothing to do with this kind of terrorism. There is plenty of interest among Christians for this kind of violence against other faiths, extremists within groups like Hutaree, the NLFT or Nagaland in India, Joseph Konee, or a dozen other groups in the US and Europe who would love to accomplish what ISIS has but simply can't because they lack the support needed.

Thank god they are the fringe, at least for now. But with violent reactionaries in places like Russia, Uganda, and others rallying people around their "Christian identity" there is no garuntee that we will not see large scale religious violence once again participated by Christians in decades to come.

Herein lies the major difference though...ISIS isn't exactly on the fringe like these groups. ISIS is accepted by tribal leaders in huge swaths of northern Iraq and Syria. That should disturb just about anyone, if they are offered such a quick safe haven by their religious brethren.

As for Russia, they are annoyingly anti-Gay and some employers are outright discriminatory against non-Christians, but this is not tantamount to crucifying people in broad daylight, burning down their churches (and Shia mosques), and lying them in a shallow ditch to be machine-gunned to death. The worst I've heard is Uganda, where gay people are forced to go to prison for having homosexual intercourse...or sometimes are murdered by lawless mobs and thugs.

[Akhenaton]

Why are you surprised? What exactly did you expect ISIS to do? They are not shy about calling for a new caliphate with an extremely strict sharia law. There´s only little room for other religions in there.
I´m sad to say this but those Christians were perhaps the lucky ones, next time ISIS might kill them, just to make an example. Most of the churches will probably be burned, plundered and then turned into mosques. I shudder to think what ISIS will do with all the Babylonian and Assyrian sites. There are even more christians in Syria and the Lebanon who would are in great danger.

And to think bush called this sharade a crusade. Now the oldest christian community is getting viped out and middle east is flooded with so many fanatics, noone would have dared dream of in 2003. I hope the Oil & Revenge was ing worth it!

[alhoon]

Why are you surprised? What exactly did you expect ISIS to do? They are not shy about calling for a new caliphate with an extremely strict sharia law. There´s only little room for other religions in there.

I'm surprised because the Sharia Law offers protection to Christians and I believe it is contrary to destroying mosques whether they were operated by Shia or Sunni.

I shudder to think what ISIS will do with all the Babylonian and Assyrian sites.

Loot them and sell the artifacts. They've done it to some museums already.

[tarvu]

^ Here's an ISIS spokesperson in one of their latest press conferences held in Mosul.



That's a fair statement.



Herein lies the major difference though...ISIS isn't exactly on the fringe like these groups. ISIS is accepted by tribal leaders in huge swaths of northern Iraq and Syria. That should disturb just about anyone, if they are offered such a quick safe haven by their religious brethren.

As for Russia, they are annoyingly anti-Gay and some employers are outright discriminatory against non-Christians, but this is not tantamount to crucifying people in broad daylight, burning down their churches (and Shia mosques), and lying them in a shallow ditch to be machine-gunned to death. The worst I've heard is Uganda, where gay people are forced to go to prison for having homosexual intercourse...or sometimes are murdered by lawless mobs and thugs.

Obviously ISIS has unique support, but that is due to the situation in Iraq and Syria.

If the United States was invaded, and occupied for years by the Socialist Muslims that Obama paved the way for (as he typically disregards the law regarding term limits and serves another ten). Leading to violent political, regional, and other sectarian conflicts which could then spill over into a rebellion against Lord of Nihilism's oppressive dictatorship in Quebec...

Then yeah I could totally see Christian nutjobs in the US forming such militant groups and carrying out violent attacks on other religions. Hell even without such fantasy we have the Klan still, and they certainly did this kind of thing (and still could).

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

So this church was never burnt by the Sassanids, Moslim caliphates, Mongols, Otomans
but by ISIS in 2014 ...

[Mayer]

They also destroy Shia mosques? Why? Can't they just convert them?

ISIS is so hardcore, it's all haram for them

and lol about the conspiracy talk of christians somewhere somehow in the world wanting to do the same
but that's the bankruptcy of muslim appeasement this day, when islamists cause violence, everybody else is blamed

[Roma_Victrix]

Obviously ISIS has unique support, but that is due to the situation in Iraq and Syria.

Right, the Sunnis have been marginalized by the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad led by Nouri al-Maliki. However, if many of them (not just the hardcore Baathist loyalists and extremists) think that ISIS is the answer, then there is a huge portion of the population there that is deluded beyond belief.

If the United States was invaded, and occupied for years by the Socialist Muslims that Obama paved the way for (as he typically disregards the law regarding term limits and serves another ten). Leading to violent political, regional, and other sectarian conflicts which could then spill over into a rebellion against Lord of Nihilism's oppressive dictatorship in Quebec...

Lord of Nihilism running an oppressive dictatorship over Quebec is something I could easily imagine.

Then yeah I could totally see Christian nutjobs in the US forming such militant groups and carrying out violent attacks on other religions. Hell even without such fantasy we have the Klan still, and they certainly did this kind of thing (and still could).

Yeah, but the Klan is just religious by default, and AFAIK don't heed any single Protestant denomination (I'm also fairly certain that Roman Catholics are not allowed to join). They're really just after the blacks (or African Americans if you will) and hate them the most, even more so than the Jews, who are the biggest target of their Neo-Nazi Aryan brethren. The KKK, although well-grounded at the turn of the 20th century, is a laughably small organization these days, as are American Neo-Nazis (whose political party has been officially defunct since the 1980s).

ISIS, on the other hand, is doing everything in the name of religion. They don't exactly have a racial component to their cause. They just care about which sect you belong to, which is sometimes determined by the tribe you belong to, since some tribes have been Shia or Sunni for centuries. They're all Arabs, though. Well, if you discount the minorities in Iraq. For instance, the Afro-Iraqis descended from the 9th-century Zanj Rebellion, although they are clustered in the southern half of Iraq if I'm not mistaken. The Kurds are stated enemies of ISIS, but they are also Sunni and aren't fighting over religious differences so much as nationalistic ones.

[Request a new user name]

Why are you surprised? What exactly did you expect ISIS to do? They are not shy about calling for a new caliphate with an extremely strict sharia law. There´s only little room for other religions in there.
I´m sad to say this but those Christians were perhaps the lucky ones, next time ISIS might kill them, just to make an example. Most of the churches will probably be burned, plundered and then turned into mosques. I shudder to think what ISIS will do with all the Babylonian and Assyrian sites. There are even more christians in Syria and the Lebanon who would are in great danger.

And to think bush called this sharade a crusade. Now the oldest christian community is getting viped out and middle east is flooded with so many fanatics, noone would have dared dream of in 2003. I hope the Oil & Revenge was ing worth it!

Well its obvious then, support Assad and Hezbollah who are non-sectarian. Oh wait, they hate Israel, America must destroy them, never mind it opens the door for IS to invade Lebanon where LAF is largely useless. Because appeasing the idiot Israelis is our highest priority rather than supporting...

My brain hurts.

[tarvu]

Right, the Sunnis have been marginalized by the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad led by Nouri al-Maliki. However, if many of them (not just the hardcore Baathist loyalists and extremists) think that ISIS is the answer, then there is a huge portion of the population there that is deluded beyond belief.



Lord of Nihilism running an oppressive dictatorship over Quebec is something I could easily imagine.



Yeah, but the Klan is just religious by default, and AFAIK don't heed any single Protestant denomination (I'm also fairly certain that Roman Catholics are not allowed to join). They're really just after the blacks (or African Americans if you will) and hate them the most, even more so than the Jews, who are the biggest target of their Neo-Nazi Aryan brethren. The KKK, although well-grounded at the turn of the 20th century, is a laughably small organization these days, as are American Neo-Nazis (whose political party has been officially defunct since the 1980s).

ISIS, on the other hand, is doing everything in the name of religion. They don't exactly have a racial component to their cause. They just care about which sect you belong to, which is sometimes determined by the tribe you belong to, since some tribes have been Shia or Sunni for centuries. They're all Arabs, though. Well, if you discount the minorities in Iraq. For instance, the Afro-Iraqis descended from the 9th-century Zanj Rebellion, although they are clustered in the southern half of Iraq if I'm not mistaken. The Kurds are stated enemies of ISIS, but they are also Sunni and aren't fighting over religious differences so much as nationalistic ones.

The clan uses religious symbolism, scripture, and invokes the terminology of crusades etc. In Kansas where my great-grandfather was a member they targeted mainly Catholics. They bombed black churches, it doesn't matter that it was racial. It was their Christian duty (and they did not/do not consider Catholics to be Christian and would certainly ban the practice if they could).

You say they are religious by default, but you could say the same for much of the support for religious extremism and sectarian violence in the Middle East was born into a vacuum left after the dissolution of secular options like Pan-Arab nationalism, socialism, etc. The fact that groups like ISIS or even Hamas in Palestine are seen to achieve results where others have failed you have a lot of people flocking to them due to efficacy first and foremost. Their loyalty is religious in nature "by default".

Christianity (not to mention other major religions like Buddhism or Hinduism) faced the exact same kinds of internal and external violence during relative times of upheaval, not even long enough ago that many people alive today to have direct connections to it. So it is just unfair to paint this as something unique to Islam and not other religions.

[Mayer]

I think we have to draw a line between tribal violence due to ethnic tensions/private warfare for personal gains (rape, sexual slavery, profit) and ideologically motivated extremism (jihad)

[Dromikaites]

Well its obvious then, support Assad and Hezbollah who are non-sectarian. Oh wait, they hate Israel, America must destroy them, never mind it opens the door for IS to invade Lebanon where LAF is largely useless. Because appeasing the idiot Israelis is our highest priority rather than supporting...

My brain hurts.

The essence of the Syrian conflict is this:

The West has the means to step in and kill both Assad and his supporters and ISIS and the assorted groups. But then the West would have to rebuild Syria. All that while kicking Russia out of Ukraine and rebuilding Ukraine.

Now matter how powerful the West is militarily and politically, it cannot do Syria and Ukraine in the same time.

So Syria will have to wait. If what goes on there can be called "waiting"...

[PlPs]

I don't understand ISIS at all. They're saying that they are Jihadists but fighting against Muslims. Funny...

[Akhenaton]

I'm surprised because the Sharia Law offers protection to Christians and I believe it is contrary to destroying mosques whether they were operated by Shia or Sunni.

Well, it also depends on the goodwill of the ruling despot and the current one is more interested in sowing fear than collecting taxes from minorities, I belive.

Loot them and sell the artifacts. They've done it to some museums already.

Well I suppose that marginally better than destroying them like in Timbuktu

Well its obvious then, support Assad and Hezbollah who are non-sectarian. Oh wait, they hate Israel, America must destroy them, never mind it opens the door for IS to invade Lebanon where LAF is largely useless. Because appeasing the idiot Israelis is our highest priority rather than supporting...

My brain hurts.

Your words confuse me RANUN, I never called out for supporting Assad or Israel. Could you elaborate a bit more?
Or have I just misunderstood you?

[pajomife]

It's the modern Islam,we should expect this acts from now on.