Could Gaza form a self sustainable country?

[Denny Crane!]

From what I've read desalination plants have become slightly less energy intensive and more efficient with Israel leading the way on this one. I doubt that is so much the problem apart from they need one. A desalination plant, port, airport, other infrastructure improvements and the blockade taking down as well as an extension to their fishing rights into a true EEZ which I'm given to understand they currently do not enjoy thanks to Israel.

[Menelik_I]

As simple as the title says.

With the West Bank being so complex, and already the territories are split in geographical and political terms and will, if the blockade was lifted and military restrictions eased is there a viable nation state there?

I ask because it is the most densely populated area on earth with very little land, is it sustainable in food and economic terms?

First Gaza is not the world most populated region, Macau, Singapore Hong Kong and Monaco are more dense. Gaza density is 4000 person/sqkm.
As for the question, yes Gaza could become a viable country, as long as it:

1 If it abandons terrorism and Hamas its people could more easily migrate to other countries without being seen as a constant security threat as they are seen in Jordan and Egypt.
2. It could become a financial center for the region as it is easier to do these things in small manageable countries.
3. In a region with instabilities it will be in the sphere of influence of the two biggest armies of the middle east and such out of reach from trouble makers.
4. It is close to a big Egyptian Market and a highly advanced Israeli market looking for cheap labor.
5. If Gas is found in Gaza it will be enough to fund your usual Brunei/Baheiren still Muslim Micro autocracy.

[Denny Crane!]

I see no reason to assume in the extremely small land area and EEZ that you would find significant gas deposits.

[Menelik_I]

I see no reason to assume in the extremely small land area and EEZ that you would find significant gas deposits.

Which is why I put a IF.

I saw some pro-Palestian websites floating around a 4 billions $ in Gaza offshore Gas reserves.

By current standards a bit of short change, but might be a short term bost

[Spajjder]

Why is Hamas firing rockets terrorism while bombings from israel are not?
Both are aimed at killing, terrorizing the opponents into submission aren't they?
Hamas is even the leadership of Gaza

I'm not condoning violence of either party, but according to the 'norms of war' wasn't Gaza under attack already before the conflict intensified? their land is occupied and their people are imprisoned by huge walls.

[Condottiere 40K]

The irony of the ghettoization of the Palestinians isn't lost on most of us.

The Singapore model seems the most likely, but that requires an autocrat who just concentrates on economic development and a strong military that deters it's neighbours from any attempts at interference.

[Keyser]

Expoliting the gas in its territorial water, becoming a tax haven and finance center, then, if it wasn't led by Hamas or other islamists movements, flirt with casinos and luxury tourism might be good choices for a small area in front of the sea and with no real ressources.

[Knight of Heaven]

Terrorism? there isnt such thing. love in war all goes, so they say. I remember when Angolan Militants were called terrorists, and in the since they were since they atacked civilians, women and children, yet later they became freedom fighters, and nation founders... its how it goes realy.
The practise of targeting civilians as a tool of war is dispicable, and very old, yet didnt stop Israel or hamas from doing it up until, now. i mean 3 teens die, and look at the result? speaking of overreating... the matter of the fact , this isnt avout the 3 teens that died, it never was. Since then how many teens and people died in the last days? And nobody cares.

1 If it abandons terrorism and Hamas its people could more easily migrate to other countries without being seen as a constant security threat as they are seen in Jordan and Egypt.
2. It could become a financial center for the region as it is easier to do these things in small manageable countries.
3. In a region with instabilities it will be in the sphere of influence of the two biggest armies of the middle east and such out of reach from trouble makers.
4. It is close to a big Egyptian Market and a highly advanced Israeli market looking for cheap labor.
5. If Gas is found in Gaza it will be enough to fund your usual Brunei/Baheiren still Muslim Micro autocracy.

Yeah sure i buy that, you just need to add the repressive, and agressive policies of Israel in the area as well that need to be stoped. You make it sound is only just up to then...
Honestly Israel-Arab conflict is very complex on its own, both parties have comited and stood in less savory watters moraly speaking, that is why i find amusing this polarization of sides, and the label of everyone that wants peace in the reagion, must be a pro palestine, muslim lover, completely hilarious.

The irony of the ghettoization of the Palestinians isn't lost on most of us.

Yep. I did visit Krakow and Auschwitz not long ago, i find it a tragedy, those set of policies folowed by Israel in Gaza, it is uncanny and ironic the ghettoization in gaza.

[Denny Crane!]

W

Terrorism? there isnt such thing. love in war all goes, so they say. I remember when Angolan Militants were called terrorists, and in the since they were since they atacked civilians, women and children, yet later they became freedom fighters, and nation founders... its how it goes realy.
The practise of targeting civilians as a tool of war is dispicable, and very old, yet didnt stop Israel or hamas from doing it up until, now. i mean 3 teens die, and look at the result? speaking of overreating... the matter of the fact , this isnt avout the 3 teens that died, it never was. Since then how many teens and people died in the last days? And nobody cares.


Yeah sure i buy that, you just need to add the repressive, and agressive policies of Israel in the area as well that need to be stoped. You make it sound is only just up to then...
Honestly Israel-Arab conflict is very complex on its own, both parties have comited and stood in less savory watters moraly speaking, that is why i find amusing this polarization of sides, and the label of everyone that wants peace in the reagion, must be a pro palestine, muslim lover, completely hilarious.

Yep. I did visit Krakow and Auschwitz not long ago, i find it a tragedy, those set of policies folowed by Israel in Gaza, it is uncanny.

Wrong ing thread dude, doubt you'll get the same response as say in the Israel/palestine thread.

[mrmouth]

These two peoples are intrinsically linked no matter how many fences or wall are built, or how much hate is fostered. There is never going are never going to be complete, compartmentalized economies. There doesn't need to be. There shouldn't be.

The perfect blueprint for Gaza already occurred in the West Bank. The x-factor in that is the absence of Hamas. They need to go, or fundamentally change, if Gaza has any hope. In this war it is the military wing of Hamas that is doing the dictating. Hamas needs maybe a civil war and the 'moderates' in the political wing need to win.


Israel began training partnerships in all manner of areas after they left Gaza. Since the turn of the century this has shifted to medical and computer technology in legitimate hopes that Gaza would develop some self-sustaining industries that do not require heavy industry infrastructure. It showed great promise but many of those people simply left Gaza for the West Bank, for obvious reasons. Kind of an undocumented exodus of the newly educated, from Gaza.

Israel is right when they say Hamas needs to go. That or fundamentally change.

[Keyser]

Come on, if Israel was honnest about the need for Hamas to go they wouldn't have evacuated Gaza unilateraly without allowing the palestinian autorithy to reinforce its presence first.
Then they wouldn't have instrumentalised the Hamas against the OLP since the creation of this movement.

They played at doctor Frankenstein with it and now tell that it need to go ?
Hamas is far more usefull as a scarecrow for the international community and the moderates in Israel as well as a rival for the control of Palestine to be allowed to be entirely eliminated...

For Hamas to go, we need a big change of government and policy in Israel first imo.

[The Noble Lord]

Population can concentrate around Rafah and Gaza City while leaving the rest for agriculture. The sea line can support that with fishing as well. What it boils down to is the amount of drinking water they can collect.

For once I will agree with Setekh!

[fkizz]

Well the former guerrilas in Portuguese colonial war were labelled as terrorists by Portuguese regime, then later praised as heroes and freedom fighters by the World Powers.

Seems now they get a taste of their own diplomatic medicine.

[Menelik_I]

Well the former guerrilas in Portuguese colonial war were labelled as terrorists by Portuguese regime, then later praised as heroes and freedom fighters by the World Powers.

Seems now they get a taste of their own diplomatic medicine.

Because world powers are idiots.

[Caligula's_Horse]

That many people living in that small a space could never become self sustaining in terms of food or water, but that only becomes an issue if international trade routes break down or a siege is enforced (and by siege I mean the ancient type, no food, water, or anything until everyone inside is dead or surrendered, not the current Israeli blockade which is more of an enforced trade embargo).

Financially speaking, not in the near future. Gaza has very little infrastructure, practically no natural resources, hardly any room to build anything but housing and an uneducated population.
Israel actually offered the Egyptians to take Gaza back as part of the peace deal. The Egyptians, being no one's fool, politely refused (while presumably blessing their incompetent military leadership in 67 for allowing the enemy to take Gaza to begin with--I'd have hazarded a conspiracy theory it was their aim all along if they didn't loose Sini and much of their army as well).

There's a reason Israel decided it doesn't want to occupy Gaza anymore, and effectively pulled out. Its like being strapped to a corpse. Much of the Jewish support for a Palestinian state in Israel itself is direct result of wanting to strap that corpse onto someone else. It doesn't help that the corpse is festering and contagious in form of the Hamas regime sworn to destroy Israel--resulting in more extremist voices in Israel saying the corpse ought to be cremated (thankfully for everyone involved, those nut jobs are a small minority).

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

As simple as the title says.

With the West Bank being so complex, and already the territories are split in geographical and political terms and will, if the blockade was lifted and military restrictions eased is there a viable nation state there?

I ask because it is the most densely populated area on earth with very little land, is it sustainable in food and economic terms?

It is not the most densely populated area. Any major city is a lot more densely populated. The Gaza strip even got quite a lot of countryside, how else did you think they grow their two main exports: dates and decoration trees?

[Holger Danske]

Which is why I put a IF.

I saw some pro-Palestian websites floating around a 4 billions $ in Gaza offshore Gas reserves.

By current standards a bit of short change, but might be a short term bost

I don't see how Gaza as a state would be anywhere near competent enough to put those resources to effective use, and that is provided they can even get their act together and drill for it.

[k995]

As simple as the title says.

With the West Bank being so complex, and already the territories are split in geographical and political terms and will, if the blockade was lifted and military restrictions eased is there a viable nation state there?

I ask because it is the most densely populated area on earth with very little land, is it sustainable in food and economic terms?

No any part of a long lasting peace would be that israel helps financialy to backup the newly created palestinian state .

[Caligula's_Horse]

No any part of a long lasting peace would be that israel helps financialy to backup the newly created palestinian state .

Actually if there ever would be some sort of diplomatic solution to this whole mess, it would involve Israel wanting to have the absolute bare minimum to do with the new Palestinian state.
My guess is that it would involve a whole lot of walls built at the border. There will be very little charity involved.

If anyone would go about funding the new Palestinian state, its a lot more likely to be one of the current regional patrons--Qatar, or Saudi Arabia for example. And if neither of those pick up the tab, the Palestinians will just have to get by on their own.
The west bank at least is feasible, its Gaza that's a toxic asset. It actually wouldn't surprise me all that much if a few years after a Palestine is formed, it'll on its own accord split into east and west.

[k995]

Actually if there ever would be some sort of diplomatic solution to this whole mess, it would involve Israel wanting to have the absolute bare minimum to do with the new Palestinian state.
My guess is that it would involve a whole lot of walls built at the border. There will be very little charity involved.

If anyone would go about funding the new Palestinian state, its a lot more likely to be one of the current regional patrons--Qatar, or Saudi Arabia for example. And if neither of those pick up the tab, the Palestinians will just have to get by on their own.
The west bank at least is feasible, its Gaza that's a toxic asset. It actually wouldn't surprise me all that much if a few years after a Palestine is formed, it'll on its own accord split into east and west.

Sorry israel cant level gaza once veery couple of years and then say "now you are on your own" .

A failed state will just give rise to new militant groups and more violence . For the price of some new settlements , new Merkava's or F-35i's israel can do it, and it will have a lot more effect then those weapons ever will.