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Thread: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

  1. #201

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Thats why i find this discussion about the so called sex change of thor, comletely ridiculous on this account, yet amusing. Comic book wise, they can do the hell they want with the character.
    Like that pic from Iron Man texting with She-Thor said, She-Thor can still fight and can still throw lightning around. Who gives a damn. We update contact information, and we notify everyone, and the Avengers moves on. Thor was a frog for a few weeks. Stranger things have happened.

    Besides. Stark would like someone new to hit on.

    Last edited by Gaidin; July 20, 2014 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. #202

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Was The Green Turtle The First Asian-American Superhero?
    by HANSI LO WANG
    July 15, 2014 3:28 AM ET

    A new graphic novel re-imagines the Green Turtle as the comic world's first Asian-American superhero.

    Sonny Liew/Courtesy of First Second Books
    For the first time since the 1940s, the Green Turtle is returning to comic bookshelves. The long-forgotten character has been resurrected in The Shadow Hero, a new graphic novel about what many comic fans consider the first Asian-American superhero.
    "He's like a classic, American World War II hero," says cartoonist Gene Luen Yang, who collaborated with illustrator Sonny Liew on The Shadow Hero.


    by Gene Luen Yang and Sonny Liew

    In the original series, the bare-chested Green Turtle looks like a lucha libre wrestler airlifted into the Pacific theater, defending America's allies in China against the invading Japanese army while donning a green cape and mask, plus "the little triangle pants that most superheroes wear," explains Yang, who was a finalist for the National Book Award forBoxers & Saints and American Born Chinese, the first graphic novel to be nominated.
    In terms of his fellow superheroes, Yang says the Green Turtle is more Bruce Wayne than Clark Kent. "He doesn't have any explicit superpowers in the original books. But he's very agile," Yang explains.
    Like Gotham's Dark Knight, the Green Turtle has his own plane, a cave for a home base, and a Robin-like sidekick called Burma Boy.
    Beyond those details, much about the Green Turtle remains unknown, as his storyline ended abruptly after five brief issues of Blazing Comics. (You can see pages from the original series on the Digital Comic Museum's website.)
    The Fight Over The Green Turtle's Race
    Yang wrote The Shadow Hero to finally give the Green Turtle an origin story and an explanation for his — let's be honest — not-so-heroic-sounding name.
    " 'Turtle head' is an insult in Chinese," says Yang, who is Chinese-American and adds that his parents would always tell him to not wear green hats. "There's a saying about wearing green hats, which means you are a cuckold."
    So, instead, Yang connected the Green Turtle to the celestial tortoise, one of four guardian animal spirits of Chinese mythology.
    There was another decades-long mystery that loomed over Yang: Did the Green Turtle's creator, Chinese-American artist Chu Hing, want his character to be Chinese-American like himself?
    "When you look at [the] original pages [of the comic series], you kind of see this fight between Chu and his publisher," says Yang, who also relied on graphic designer Alex Jay's research on Chu's background.
    Rumor has it that the publisher thought a series about a superhero of Asian descent wouldn't sell. Fear of the so-called "yellow peril" was alive and well as World War II raged on in the Pacific.
    So the Green Turtle's skin was colored a pinkish hue, unlike the light orange-y skin tone of the Chinese and Japanese characters. Still, readers never got a full look at the Green Turtle's face in the original series, which always showed the superhero in a mask.
    i
    The Green Turtle's swinging arm obscures his face in this panel fromBlazing Comics.

    Courtesy of First Second Books
    "He almost always has his back turned toward the audience, so all you see is his cape," Yang says. "When he is turned around, something is blocking his face. It's either hidden by shadow, or he's punching and his arm is in the way. Or there's a piece of furniture in the way."
    Code Switching Between Superhero And Civilian
    In the afterword of The Shadow Hero, Yang describes what he sees as other hidden clues about the Green Turtle's true racial identity:
    [Chu] wants to unite East with West. The Green Turtle's costume is typical of American superheroes of the time, yet it incorporates Chinese elements. Blazing Comics #4 begins with a phrase in Chinese: 美國及中華民國 (the United States united with the Chinese Republic). In that same issue, an American general fights alongside the Green Turtle's team of Chinese guerrillas. In Blazing Comics #3, [Chu] presents us with an old proverb that expresses humanity's connectedness: 四海一家 (four oceans, one family).
    Yang's new graphic novel firmly establishes the Green Turtle as Asian-American, unmasking the superhero as a teenager named Hank Chu, the American-born son of Chinese immigrants living in the Chinatown of a fictional city on California's coast in the 1930s.
    Hank transforms from a scrawny neighborhood kid into one of his city's top crime-fighters. But in the end, he's still caught between Chinatown and the world outside.
    "Every superhero has this superhero identity and a civilian identity," Yang explains. "A lot of their lives are about code switching. It's about switching from one mode of expectations to another mode of expectations. And I really think that mirrors something in the immigrant's kid's life."[

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/...ican-superhero
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    I'm...at a loss for what I'm supposed to get from that.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Actually the Vikings were remarkably advanced in terms of navigation, soldiering, and art, so that's one reason they still fascinate. The idea of Viking barbarians is a complete misnomer. Their culture comes through in the sagas and the Prose Edda (among many others) and so their myths are quite relevant. Not to mention that Scandinavian people came across to America in a great wave and settled in the North (and other places), and so certainly a part of the American identity and representation in comics.
    ...

    Well, I'd say that Asian people would buy the Green Turtle, and there would be some non-Asians who would buy it too. Lone Wolf and Cub, Usagi Yojimbo, Samurai Cat all proved that this could happen.

    War comics have been a niche of the industry, and certainly the exploits of the Filipino guerrilla fighters during WW2 would make for an interesting comic. They were among the most fierce fighters of the war, a factor known only to military historians. This is the real Red Dawn played out not in the 1980's...but in the 1940's.

    Comic writers can do whatever they want, but it will come off as inauthentic. Do they really care as long as it sells? Probably not.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 20, 2014 at 03:07 PM.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Basically, it's not too hard to create any number of ethnic based heroes, but the editors and the publishers are responsible for ensuring that the creative team make them relateable to the audience, or diluting the concept making it indistinguishable from other series.

    As for Vikings, venture capitalists or hostile takeover and merger specialists?
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  6. #206
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Seems to be a common thing that stuff gets messed up by outsiders who seem to think something of another culture is cool but dont bother to properly research it, remaining ignorant about the truth.

    Just look at the many questionable stereotypes of western people in japanese fighters, the portrayal of samurai in western media, unfunctional armor and weapon designs in settings that are meant to be taken seriously, and of course the feeble interpretation of norse mythology in american comic books.
    I'm not saying that writers should stick to their own heritage however, just saying that the further a concept stands away from your own life, some effort should be put into it to really get to the roots of this concept instead of just taking of it what looks cool and still keep naming it the same thing.
    There are plenty of examples after all of writers who did a great job at portraying stuff of a culture thats not their own. Some of the best Westerns where made by Italians for example.

    But to get back at the decline in superheroes storylines.. I have no idea how they handle it right now but maybe its best to just rotate them a bit? work on a series for a character, and once concluded dont start a new story arc untill a good idea for the character is found. Both Marvell and DC have a rediculous amount of characters to go around, by rotating them a bit and not having constantly new stories for everyone it might give room for better ideas.
    Doesnt work either when videogames get quick sequels constantly.. quality suffers when it all just keeps going for the sake of keeping going instead of actually having something to tell.

    Maybe they shouldnt have tried to keep updating superheroes to modern times.. maybe some superheroes simply work a lot better in the time period they where created for, having lost relevance in later eras. Why not just keep writing them in the same time period since they seemingly don't age with the times anyways?

    And with some new blood, the silly skintight outfits could be dropped as well. It's still possible to have all kinds of special styles for superheroes without uncomforteable skintight outfits that probably arent too easy to put on.

    Agreed by the way about element girl and Brienne.. never heard of element girl before but she seems more interesting than any other female superhero already. Brienne is wonderfull, she is believeable as a woman who kicks butt. I want to see more women like that in movies, and hopefully also in fighters.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    In Aliens, the second of the Alien franchise, those female space marines were so much better than standard pretty faces as soldiers.

    More of that, and less pushup bras and cleavage. We're all cheering for Ripley to take names and kick some ass, not because she also happens to look pretty good stripped down.

    Isn't that the formula of Margaret on Falling Skies that makes her both sexy and dangerous?
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 20, 2014 at 03:45 PM.

  8. #208
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    For a superhero with natural superhuman durability or a superhero who relies on agility a great deal a skin tight outfit is actually very practical for the same reason skin tight outfits are practical in the olympics.
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  9. #209

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    In Aliens, the second of the Alien franchise, those female space marines were so much better than standard pretty faces as soldiers.

    More of that, and less pushup bras and cleavage. We're all cheering for Ripley to take names and kick some ass, not because she also happens to look pretty good stripped down.

    Isn't that the formula of Margaret on Falling Skies that makes her both sexy and dangerous?
    So? It's been established that stranger stuff has happened in both the comics and the myths. You're just pissed it's actually happening to Thor on a slightly permanent basis. What's your overall point?

    That's right. You don't have one. You're just a fan who can't even wait to see how it even get's implemented. You just see the announcement and RANT knob gets turned up to 11 out of 10.
    Last edited by Gaidin; July 20, 2014 at 03:48 PM.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    So? It's been established that stranger stuff has happened in both the comics and the myths. You're just pissed it's actually happening to Thor on a slightly permanent basis. What's your overall point?

    That's right. You don't have one. You're just a fan who can't even wait to see how it even get's implemented. You just see the announcement and RANT knob gets turned up to 11 out of 10.
    Fah, you just don't get it. You don't need to reduce a male Thor to elevate a new female goddess of thunder. That's the difference and it's the only difference, and it has nothing to do with sexism or impatience. If anyone is being sexist, it's the Marvel marketing team. If anyone is being crass, it's the Marvel marketing team that creates a situation where a guy must fall for a woman to be elevated. Then make this "seem" to be about being sensitive when it's about making money. That's grotesque and has nothing to do with diversity.

    And the mindless idiots on the View bought it: hook, line, and sinker.

    My daughters worked hard, got educated, with professional degrees, plus learned how to work around the house and garage, and they didn't need to replace a man, only learn to do things that were nontraditional at the time in order to succeed. That's empowerment, not this offal put out by Marvel.

    Male replacement is NOT Feminism, it's garbage thinking that presumes that only one can succeed, and so topple the king of the hill. How ridiculous. Is that what passes for diversity these days?

    Would we apply that kind of nonsense anywhere? So for a woman to succeed in business, she has to replace the male CEOs, not become one strictly on her own merit? So for a female to be a great doctor, she must crush the competition, not be a better healer? How nutty!

    True diversity is about embracing both white and black and every other ethnic coloration of skin. It's about male and female, not female alone. It's about heterosexuals and homosexuals, not removing one. Otherwise, it's all women and that's NOT diversity, if we're replacing males with females.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 20, 2014 at 04:08 PM.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Actually the Vikings were remarkably advanced in terms of navigation, soldiering, and art, so that's one reason they still fascinate. The idea of Viking barbarians is a complete misnomer. Their culture comes through in the sagas and the Prose Edda (among many others) and so their myths are quite relevant. Not to mention that Scandinavian people came across to America in a great wave and settled in the North (and other places), and so certainly a part of the American identity and representation in comics.
    As you are well aware, i was not saying they werent fascinating. My point was of another kind.
    However:
    Advanced in terms of art though? realy in comparison to the current civilizations at the time?, a culture that didnt even had a mainstream writting? I think not. They had art, yes, i wouldnt say advanced.
    This comes a bit from what i was saying, we have a very romantic vision about the Vikings and its culture, on alot of fronts. One of them was actualy the so called sagas, that some are full of fiction and propaganda, very typical of national epics, and in the case of these classic sagas were composed in the 1200s. Scholars once believed that these sagas were transmitted orally from generation to generation until scribes wrote them down in the 1200s. However, most scholars now believe the sagas were conscious artistic creations, based on both oral and written tradition. A study focusing on the description of the items of clothing mentioned in the sagas concludes that the authors attempted to create a historic "feel" to the story, by dressing the characters in what was at the time thought to be "old fashioned clothing". However, these clothing are not contemporary with the events of the saga as they are a closer match to the clothing worn in the 12th century.
    Also thank the christian clerigy that this Viking sagas are knowned today, and in written form.

    At anycase Its like taking a national epic as faced value historicaly, the same thing if we read Homer, or the Lusiads, and take as historical fact, that the Portuguese did realy concort with Greek Gods, and divinity, while making the voyage to India.

    They werent barbarians, no, but what kind of people, culture are realy barbarian, or qualify for it? would i qualify the celts and the Gauls as barbarians? personaly i wouldnt.
    Dont get me wrong i like the Vikings and norse mythology as much as the next guy, what im saying, is alot of it has to do with the modern midia. From Tv show from mangas, comics, and fiction books, to knowing realy history about them... i confess me personaly, i feel a bit saturated with Thor, and Loki and Odin etc. But its the new wave, back in 30s, and 40s, it was the Greek Mythology, and its myths.
    You don't need to reduce a male Thor to elevate a new female goddess of thunder.
    Im not sure if its a reduction. We just cant know that at moment, without knowing the material, and its overal context, and take on it.

    Seems to be a common thing that stuff gets messed up by outsiders who seem to think something of another culture is cool but dont bother to properly research it, remaining ignorant about the truth.
    So in your mind whats going on in romantic fiction, is an interpretation of norse mythology?
    What a backward notion intelectualy speaking.
    There are plenty of examples after all of writers who did a great job at portraying stuff of a culture thats not their own. Some of the best Westerns where made by Italians for example.
    Yes, even though the spagethi westerns are knowned to have litle to do with "western" reality, they have more fantasy elements then you can imagine, starting from their usual clothes and aparatus.. but i digress.
    The point is it doesnt matter if respects, or makes its due to the source of inspiration.
    As long its a good piece, it is considered good art. They could make a western in space, and that would still be fine by me. In fact one of thebest animation series, is exactly that, a western in Space.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 20, 2014 at 05:57 PM.

  12. #212
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    [QUOTE=Knight of Heaven;13969723]
    Advanced in terms of art though? realy in comparison to the current civilizations at the time?, a culture that didnt even had a mainstream writting? I think not. They had art, yes, i wouldnt say advanced. [/spoiler]

    Entirely dependent on what you define as advanced art. In terms of woodcarvings whey were unsurpassed, but obviously were nowhere near the ability of the Greeks or Romans to recreate the human form in stone or painting.

    Still they applied the decoration they had feverishly, to their ships, weapons, homes and eventually their unique churches

    The Oseberg Ship is ridiculously ornate, not only the ship itself or the dragon head. But the bloody ship cart.



    This comes a bit from what i was saying, we have a very romantic vision about the Vikings and its culture, on alot of fronts. One of them was actualy the so called sagas,
    Why "So called sagas?" They are called Sagas. Nothing so called about it.

    that some are full of fiction and propaganda,
    Facts and fiction went hand in hand well into the 1800's, so if the sagas are full of fiction and propaganda, so are virtually everything written before that date. As far as I'm concerned. Having red a good number of them, the sagas was extremely factual for their time, particularly Snorri's kings sagas that detail the histories of the Norwegian Kings from 890AD to 1145AD, which is the most important one we got. There is little to no superstition in that all all, only a precious few instances where god or some prophecy show up. Of course there are factual errors, but the general course of events are mostly correct.

    very typical of national epics, and in the case of these classic sagas were composed in the 1200s. Scholars once believed that these sagas were transmitted orally from generation to generation until scribes wrote them down in the 1200s. However, most scholars now believe the sagas were conscious artistic creations, based on both oral and written tradition. A study focusing on the description of the items of clothing mentioned in the sagas concludes that the authors attempted to create a historic "feel" to the story, by dressing the characters in what was at the time thought to be "old fashioned clothing". However, these clothing are not contemporary with the events of the saga as they are a closer match to the clothing worn in the 12th century.
    I've read plenty of Sagas and even more criticism. Not this particular one though. Produce sources, not imaginative ones. For example -> "A study concluded that you don't have a clue what you are talking about."

    Additionally to deny the Sagas historical value just makes you look uninformed. As historical documents they are invaluable. Easily some of the best writing we have from Europe in that time. Thank you Iceland.

    Kings Sagas by Snorri, as I mentioned before, is probably the single most important historical document in Norwegian history and was directly involved in creating the national identity of Norway when in resurfaced.


    Also thank the christian clerigy that this Viking sagas are knowned today, and in written form.
    Snorri and most other saga authors was (Thankfully) not christian clergy. If they was the stories would obviously have been full of religious dogma crap instead of history. If you are referring to the translation from Norse to Danish, Christianity got preciously little to do with it. The laws of the time was written in Old Norse and since they were still valid in Norway some knowledge of the language remained in the judicial circles. That the translator Peder Friis and others happened to be a priest is not the catalyst for the translation. Peder Friis also happened to be a hilariously violent drunk and a murderer too. then again 1600's Norway most people were.
    Last edited by Påsan; July 20, 2014 at 07:16 PM.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Why "So called sagas?" They are called Sagas. Nothing so called about it.
    They are called sagas, thats why they are so called sagas, or did i made a mistake for calling them sagas? i dont think so.
    Additionally to deny the Sagas historical value
    I didnt nor i do deny historical value, you simply cant take everything in the sagas as face value as historical fact, specialy when these norse sagas are very controversial in the academic society as cronicles, they are full of fantasy, and inconstant inacuracies, and cronological disparities. The fact is this basicaly the only writen source of historical marking of a civilization.
    As historical documents they are invaluable.
    They are but not entirely for the reasons you are argueing.
    Produce sources, not imaginative ones.
    Imaginative? i have no memory of the souce in specific, but i read it in some book, or enciclopedia, long ago, that happened to mention that current of thought. Im sure an expert such as you can easly find books about the subject if you want to.

    Entirely dependent on what you define as advanced art. In terms of woodcarvings whey were unsurpassed, but obviously were nowhere near the ability of the Greeks or Romans to recreate the human form in stone or painting.
    I rest my case. Unsurpassed? i dont think so. They are however unique to there culture, still the vikings werent the only ones with wood carving art, not by a long shot. Ever heard of Polynesian Art?! Hell African sub saharan art sculptures for instance.
    "A study concluded that you don't have a clue what you are talking about."
    whataver you say kemosabe
    It doesnt take an expert to know general culture, and to know that the accuracy of the sagas is often hotly disputed.
    You cant deny that, because its a fact.

  14. #214
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    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    They are called sagas, thats why they are so called sagas, or did i made a mistake for calling them sagas? i dont think so.
    "So called" is usually a term indicating that something is incorrectly or falsely named. Or just to initiate an patronizing attitude over a subject.

    I didnt nor i do deny historical value, you simply cant take everything in the sagas as face value as historical fact, specialy when these norse sagas are very controversial in the academic society as cronicles, they are full of fantasy, and inconstant inacuracies, and cronological disparities.
    Good. you get it.

    The fact is this basicaly the only writen source of historical marking of a civilization.
    Interestingly, we have a excellent understanding of the Norse. Sadly the same is not true for most of the other nationalities dotting the ~800-1000 AD landscape.

    They are but not entirely for the reasons you are argueing.
    Yes, for the reasons I'm arguing. Either you are misinterpreting me, or you're wrong. I think my perception of the Sagas is very accurate. I wrote a bachelor involving them. The professor on the subject spoke fluent Norse.

    Imaginative? i have no memory of the souce in specific, but i read it in some book, or enciclopedia, long ago, that happened to mention that current of thought. Im sure an expert such as you can easly find books about the subject if you want to.
    Thought so.

    I rest my case. Unsurpassed? i dont think so. They are however unique to there culture, still the vikings werent the only ones with wood carving art, not by a long shot. Ever heard of Polynesian Art?! Hell African sub saharan art sculptures for instance.
    Unsurpassed, as in best at what they do. Which is what the term means. Which is subjective, since we're talking about art. I find the Norse woodcarving superior compared to other pre-industrial examples I've seen, you obviously don't.

    It doesnt take an expert to know general culture, and to know that the accuracy of the sagas is often hotly disputed.
    You cant deny that, because its a fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan
    Of course there are factual errors, but the general course of events are mostly correct.
    BTW: You have this annoying patronizing attitude when you discuss. You might want to amend that, I don't think its doing you any favors.
    Last edited by Påsan; July 20, 2014 at 08:44 PM.

  15. #215
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    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Vikings (intentionally not saying Norse) were smart and advanced and stuff and had great international connections and did a lot, but they were still complete bastards whose careers basically revolved around burglary, kidnap, rape, murder, extortion, racketeering, and slavery.

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  16. #216

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Well no one is perfect, i still maintain my original argument, Viking and norse culture is largely popular this days, due to several popular midium , and works of fiction, i can not help to be a bit saturated of it.
    Interest, or fascination of the Culture, and history aside.
    "So called" is usually a term indicating that something is incorrectly or falsely named. Or just to initiate an patronizing attitude over a subject.
    read it again, the "so called" expression is there to indicate a most probable cause of the romantic vision people have of the vikings.
    we have a very romantic vision about the Vikings and its culture, on alot of fronts. One of them was actualy the so called sagas
    Clearey not to dismiss their value, but to indicate an ideia.

    I find the Norse woodcarving superior compared to other pre-industrial examples I've seen, you obviously don't.
    Talk about patronizing... that wasnt exactly what i meant anyway, there is no superior anything, it isnt a competition... but nevermind.
    My intend was to show, that while unique and interesting in the given context Norse art effectively is.
    It is a clear mistake to state it as very advanced considering the cronological time we are talking about. Even less superior to other culture...
    I would also avoid to comtemplate pre industrial era examples, wich is a quite vast in itself cronologic speaking, it has a broad range of exemplary cultures, with complex artistic techniques, if we are talking about wood carving. It wouldnt be a fair to compare it.
    You mentioned the Romans and Greeks, but during the "dark ages" there was Byzantine art, there was islamic art ( arabesque current popular from the 7th century onwards include several applied arts, like wood carving decorations painted, as well ceramics, Glass work, tiling art work, metal work) the roman mosaics, lets not even mention China, or India in wood carving matters as well. There is such vast examples of complex enough art, some of it no doubt a heritage of other long past civilizations, but there was inovation as well.
    So yeah considering this particular time frame i have issues to someone stating Nordic wood carving advanced or superior at the time. In comparison it was primitive, even the ceramic art culture was considered primitive in the mediterranean and in the arab world in that time frame. That doesnt make it less good or interesting it wasnt the argument i was going for anyway, that as you well put it, is subjective.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 20, 2014 at 10:05 PM.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    If you're looking for a more well known comparison, look at the evolution of the Arthurian cycle, how it expanded and reflected the values of the chroniclers, rather than the Celtic British Romans. Beyond the mixture of Christianity and Celtic mythology.



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  18. #218

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...180949814/?all
    This is the link that was embedded in the very statement about navigation, soldiering, and ART. The British Museum is/was having an exhibition of Viking Art as it's certainly a phenomena of the Dark Ages as well as being often ornate and beautiful. If you disagree with that, well there is no accounting for aesthetics.





    Not to shabby for barbarians. I'd like to see some artists produce this from scratch. You know, mining the metals, purifying them, crafting them, not to mention the simpler aspects of making the charcoal, dyes from natural materials, etc.

    What ing nonsense to say that the Vikings weren't artisans. Of course HUGE amounts of artistic knowledge was lost during the Dark Ages, but that doesn't mean they didn't have Art. Sheesh.
    http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_o...4/vikings.aspx

    Think of the complexity and craftsmanship that went into making this. This isn't something that the average person could build by any means. It took very special people with multiple skillsets in order to produce something aesthetically pleasing as well as seaworthy as well as stout enough for long ocean voyages. I dare say that no two spars were alike, but honed to fit, and this is a remarkable feet of engineering with hand tools.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 20, 2014 at 11:56 PM.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    Fah, you just don't get it.
    Yeah, we don't get it. We don't get why in a comic book universe, where similar characters change race and gender, where the entire concept of this particular character is dependent on his hammer, he would be changed with someone else in line with the universe and his own character story. We really don't get why while this kind of change happened many times for many characters a change from male to female makes some people flip. It's a mystery...
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #220

    Default Re: Is nothing sacred...Thor is a woman?

    it's certainly a phenomena of the Dark Ages as well as being often ornate and beautiful. If you disagree with that, well there is no accounting for aesthetics.
    i dont mate i dont. It wasnt the point i was making either.
    What ing nonsense to say that the Vikings weren't artisans. Of course HUGE amounts of artistic knowledge was lost during the Dark Ages, but that doesn't mean they didn't have Art. Sheesh.
    I didnt said that if i said anything, is there are more impressive art out there besides the Viking art... and call it advanced however or superior to what was current at the time frame we are speaking is being shortsighted.
    Actualy for the dark ages setting it wasnt advanced at all, its very reminescent of Bronze, Iron age in many ways, Old Norse” and “Old Gaelic pieces for instance, Viking art does transcend into the Nordic Bronze Age, besides the iron age and this form of art is somewhat similar to what one finds in Eurasian, Celtic and Romanesque art forms... it is fascinating art no doubt, but i wouldnt call it advanced, when we are talking early medieval europe here. To put it bluntly, this kind of art, had been arround for centuries if not milenia in europe.
    In addition to their exquisite ships, the Vikings were also known for their expertise in crafting brooches, buckles, and knives. Much of their jewelry contains elements of Celtic art as well as elements from earlier Roman art pieces. ( again not that advanced)
    Also what you mean artistic knowledge being lost in the dark ages? that surely doesnt apply to the Vikings, they were never part of the Roman empire.
    We however tend to look Europe as only the north and england, where there was much more complex art, In italy, Greece and across the mediterranean, we also tend to forget during the "dark ages" the arab expantion, and what they brought to europe as well
    Alhambra was built in 889, and expanded during the 11th century for instance...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    ceramic from the 10th century
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    And obviously i could talk about the byzantines, and plenty others.
    Think of the complexity and craftsmanship that went into making this.This isn't something that the average person could build by any means.
    The vikings were master naval craftsmen, there is no denying that. Nor i ever implied otherwise.
    Some experts suggest that the greatest art forms left behind by the Vikings are the ships that they built and used in their travels. These great ships expressed a host of design and art forms that were truly unique to their time.
    Also what is average person realy means in context? because, that again it seems a bit subjective. You shouldnt imply the norse were above average to other peoples.
    In some areas, of course they were naval expertise for instance.
    But as art, architecture and such, in comparison to what was existint during early medieval era, i wouldnt say it isnt very impressive in their complexity or advanced technicaly speaking.
    Asthetics or personal tastes has nothing to do with it.
    Honestly what i realy find anoying is puting Viking culture, and mythos in a pedestal of sorts, just because they are very popular. That what i was going at originaly, and that yes it is a taste, and personal issue.
    Probably a side effect of anglo saxon cultural hegemony in the western world, while not scandinavian, its presence historicaly in anglo saxon world is cleary marking.
    There is no doubt they are fascinating though, never said otherwise, all i said much of that is due to modern view of the vikings and norse mythology propagated by popular midia.

    One shot Image Comics, where a single mother prostitute is granted superhero powers.
    Thats awesome. more importantly, where i read it?
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; July 21, 2014 at 01:18 AM.

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