Who contributed more to western civilization - southern or northern european countries?

[Roma_Victrix]

The first Germanic kingdoms, such as those founded by the Goths, seem to have had elites that wanted to remain separate from their subjects, and did not in fact follow what was popularly accepted. Not only did they become Arians, but they also made it difficult for their subjects to convert to Arianism.

Yes, but the only reason Arianism was available to the Goths was because Christianity had become a formidable religion in the neighboring Roman Empire. If Christianity had remained a minor sect of Judaism restricted to Israel or at most the Levant, there's no way the Goths would have even heard about this peculiar sect of Judaism. I hope you see now what I'm saying.

post above contains - a purposedful biased corruption of historic reality , an intentionally false statement .

The Visigoths, Ostrogoths, and Vandals were Christianized while they were still outside the bounds of the Roman Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Goths#Religion

Goths were recruited for military service by Rome have not recieved pay and were adviced by Roman officials to sell their children to sex abuse
they revolted , destroyed Rome . It is does not fall in the definition of rampage it is right behaviour all alone . In fact the Goths have been
doing the God's work since Rome was destroying whole regions like Carthage,Gaul,Dacia,Iberia etc etc to make place for few olygarchs
surrounded by c rightless and slave-like citizens (the last people tribune was dismissed in the time of Augustus) fed by circuses brutality .
The Rome has destroyed democracy in Greece and divided it in provinces ,like Macedon in such Imperialist way that even now there is a raging dispute about naming.
Roman authorities after taken Christianity proceeded to destroy - 'sinful'objects of science and art .

You're a funny guy, Edelfred. Of course they were Christianized while still outside the Roman Empire, but who exactly do you think Christianized them? How do you think Christianity was even available to them in the first place? Christainity came to Gothic lands from missionaries originating from within the Roman Empire, where Christianity was originally founded (i.e. under Roman-controlled Judea). There was a good chance Christianity could have been snuffed out or saw a reversal after the persecutions of Christians under Diocletian. If it hadn't been for Constantine I adopting it as his own faith, there's no way Christianity would have enjoyed the type of success it had for centuries after, becoming the Roman state religion by the end of the 4th century. Theodosius basically cemented it with the Nicene creed and council, banning the pagan Olympic games and disbanding the pagan Vestal Virgins.

This will be my last off topic post on the matter, so don't bother responding unless it is through PM or a post in a thread I already started on this subject in the "alternative history" sub-forum.

[Hobbes]

Yes, but the only reason Arianism was available to the Goths was because Christianity had become a formidable religion in the neighboring Roman Empire. If Christianity had remained a minor sect of Judaism restricted to Israel or at most the Levant, there's no way the Goths would have even heard about this peculiar sect of Judaism. I hope you see now what I'm saying.

I was not disagreeing with you, the adoption of Christianity by the Romans was definitely what led Goths and co to adopt it. I'm just adding that despite that, they still wanted to keep a distance from their subjects.