Since Named Characters can rebel to the Baron's Alliance could they rebel to another faction too?

[RubiconDecision]

In De Bello Mundi, there are two Roman factions:
The Romani who control almost all of Italy
and the SPQR who are the Senate controlling Rome (papal_states).

What I'd like to do is have some commanders who have different politics and a SupportSenate trait to be inclined to rebel from the Romani, and maybe become the Baron's Alliance factions (with a locked alliance with the SPQR and become a protectorate), OR merely rebel to the SPQR (papal_states). Is this possible? Then whole settlements and stacks can rebel and make the SPQR stronger which is needed because the SPQR are largely impotent in the beginning.

It's also potentially an end game for the submod, so that just when the player thinks they've won, if the SPQR is still around, maybe some settlements flip to them, so the player has to crush enough to satisfy the win_conditions at least controlling all of the Italian settlements.

[Withwnar]

Do named characters definitely go over to Baron's Alliance? I was pondering this very question today. I had a vague memory that they did not but I'm nowhere near certain.

[RubiconDecision]

Do named characters definitely go over to Baron's Alliance? I was pondering this very question today. I had a vague memory that they did not but I'm nowhere near certain.

Yes, in the Britannia Kingdoms mod, some of the English settlements with named characters revolt to the Baron's Alliance. So there might be a way to have them revolt to the Papacy which is the SPQR in De Bello Mundi. This would be really great to see happen with traits triggered perhaps by later turns or political leaning or low loyalty to the Romani.

That uses emerging faction and low authority of England's Leader.

Maybe give those settlements to the papacy?

;------------------- BARONS ALLIANCE -------------------;

;setup related event counters
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england

add_events
event counter ba_last_spawn_timer
date 0
end_add_events

terminate_monitor

end_monitor

;inc time since the barons alliance last spawned timer
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england

inc_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 1

end_monitor

;initial spawning

;first first spawn opportunity (lead by de_Montfort if spawned at this point in time)
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 8
and I_TurnNumber < 35

;randomise to determine if this check should be made this turn

faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 60.0 155.0 0.9 town false simon1 Simon de_Montfort 42

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_counter ba_first_emergence 1
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_emerge_montfort
end_if

end_monitor

;second first spawn opportunity
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 50
and I_TurnNumber < 70

faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 60.0 140.0 0.9 town false

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_counter ba_first_emergence 1
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_emerge_generic
end_if

end_monitor

;third first spawn opportunity
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 90
and I_TurnNumber < 110

faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 60.0 140.0 0.9 town false

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_counter ba_first_emergence 1
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_emerge_generic
end_if

end_monitor

;final first spawn opportunity
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 0
and I_TurnNumber > 130
and I_TurnNumber < 150

faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 60.0 140.0 0.9 town false

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_counter ba_first_emergence 1
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_emerge_generic
end_if

end_monitor

;subsequent spawn conditions

;check when England gets a new faction leader
monitor_event BecomesFactionLeader FactionType england
and I_NumberOfSettlements england > 15
and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 1
and I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance = 0
and I_EventCounter ba_last_spawn_timer > 10

faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 70.0 140.0 0.85 town false

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_reemerge_new_king
add_money barons_alliance 10000
end_if

end_monitor

;check when English leaders authority is low
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
and I_NumberOfSettlements england > 15
and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 1
and I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance = 0
and I_EventCounter ba_last_spawn_timer > 10

generate_random_counter authority_value 1 100


;the lower the faction leaders authority, the greater the chance of the barons_alliance appearing
if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 0

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 33
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 5 50.0 145.0 0.9 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 1

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 25
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 60.0 135.0 0.9 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 2

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 20
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 65.0 130.0 0.85 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 3

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 15
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 70.0 120.0 0.85 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 4

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 10
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 80.0 120.0 0.85 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_FactionLeaderAttribute england Authority = 5

if I_EventCounter authority_value <= 5
faction_emerge barons_alliance england 6 85.0 120.0 0.85 town false
end_if

end_if

if I_NumberOfSettlements barons_alliance > 0
set_event_counter ba_last_spawn_timer 0
historic_event barons_reemerge_poor_king
add_money barons_alliance 10000
end_if

end_monitor

[makanyane]

Do named characters definitely go over to Baron's Alliance?

They should... I think, and doing it to other combinations just needs the;
faction england, shadowed_by barons_alliance
faction barons_alliance, shadowing england

type set up in descr_sm_factions.txt
it's similar to empire_east/west relationship in BI any army or settlement rebelling should switch

[RubiconDecision]

So I was thinking that certain settlements would flip based upon their governors' attributes and traits to the Baron's Alliance. But then use the give_everything_to_faction Baron's Alliance Papal States in the next turn. So it's a very short term emergence which then immediately ends the Baron's Alliance and the SPQR (Papacy) ends up with a bloodless coup d'état.

The player would have to be very careful about the loyalty and political leanings of governors, and on certain designated turns, a chance for the SPQR to pick up significant territory without fighting. Then the Romani have to fight them to get those territories back, but might not kill the named character traitor governor, but use the timer to control the city square and then release him. At which point he'd likely head for the closest SPQR territory.

The SPQR never declared war on those cities or the Romani. But they gained them, so the faction demeanor didn't change, it doesn't break any alliances, but makes the Senate very powerful politically (scripting) but weak militarily if the Romani Faction Leader has low authority resulting in these changes, or is a tyrant and has high dread (versus a chivalrous governor) but not just flipping on a whim but with several attributes allowing it to happen on a particular turn but a BRIEF one.

That's a major reason why the Romani would want to eliminate the SPQR. Eliminating it is a problem since the SPQR is configured as the Papacy in order to call a Cassus belli (Roman crusade).

It's cleaner to give the newly emerged Baron's Alliance Roman territories to the SPQR, otherwise a set window of three turns for the Romans to attack the Baron's Alliance or else it defaults to the SPQR. At which time, attacking the SPQR's new territory and declaring a war on the Senate (SPQR).

There might be problems with attacking the Baron's Alliance. If you fail, then it reverts to the SPQR. If you win, then a Romani governor controls it, there's no Baron's Alliance anymore, so the command doesn't switch any Romani territory to the Papacy.

EDIT:So since the Baron's Alliance is a shadow faction of England in the Britannia campaign, then couldn't the SPQR merely be the shadow faction of the Romani, but merely making that shadow faction occur from the start in the descr_strat and not an emerging faction? Then script on turns generals from the Romani joining the SPQR.

What's more, could the Romani be the shadow faction of the SPQR, so that the same would be true, and no need for a intermediary? Or by definition does a shadow faction mean open hostility with the other?

[Withwnar]

I wonder if that includes family then, not to mention leaders and heirs. Otherwise the faction would be eliminated if the transferred named characters happened to include the last of the family.

[RubiconDecision]

I wonder if that includes family then, not to mention leaders and heirs. Otherwise the faction would be eliminated if the transferred named characters happened to include the last of the family.

It might indeed. If the heir loathes the faction leader, and rebels to the Baron's Alliance, then he and the agents inside, plus any other named characters inside who are not so inclined might suddenly be controlled by the Baron's Alliance.

So the faction leader might actually end up killing his own son, and if there is no other heir, then doom on the Romani. If you use the timer function to control the city square, then release the hostages, they're expelled and then upon the end of the window become SPQR members. So you could lose potentially the heir to them. But the faction leader isn't dead and can make new heirs or adopt another.

Those NCOs and lesser officer Principes and Legionary Centurions who might also be in the city (see a related post) might then become under the Baron's Alliance and expelled (if they survived the battle) and become new SPQR named characters too.
...

Likewise the SPQR might have a shadow faction too, and they emerge as something like the Baron's Alliance (maybe Romani wannabees), and then are automatically given to the Romani in three turns, unless the SPQR attack their potentially lost territories.

[Withwnar]

I don't think that anything goes over to the emerging faction, apart from the settlement itself.

In Kingdoms Brittania I commented out these lines...

;first first spawn opportunity (lead by de_Montfort if spawned at this point in time)
monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType england
;and I_CompareCounter ba_first_emergence = 0
;and I_TurnNumber > 8
;and I_TurnNumber < 35

...and the emerge happens at the end of the first turn, taking two regions in Ireland. The England armies vacate the settlements and so does the England general (who is not a family member by the way). The vacating armies include units that barons_alliance has ownership of in EDU.

That's a shame because I wanted the units, and ideally the generals/family, to go over to the other side.

Hmm, so the point of baron's shadowing england is only for the case where an england general/army/settlement rebels --> it goes to baron's instead of slave?

[RubiconDecision]

That's too bad. In my case it's for helping out the SPQR who are very weak, and giving them more settlements would help. In the event they own those first Romani settlements, it means add_money and create_units to help them defend them, or simply a garrison script as that's only on being attacked.

Those settlements in Ireland in Britannia have high disorder as I recall, so it's not doing any favors to the Baron's Alliance, and likely they will simply be swallowed up by Ireland. One strategy was for the English to intentionally destroy the infrastructure and pull out from those settlements and redeploy their soldiers since it's too difficult to hold on to them.

So if something similar happens in Gaul with the Romans and disorder leading to the Baron's Alliance (SPQR getting those headache settlements), then it doesn't really help them, because chances are they cannot defend them in Gaul, though it does remove settlements from the Romani conquering. So it's back to blitzing the Gauls on purpose, getting kicked out by the Baron's Alliance (SPQR). It becomes their headache and meanwhile the Romani sacking another settlement in Gaul. Rinse repeat.

[k/t]

Any troops who lose a siege battle when inside a settlement die. They're not expelled.