Why Soccer will (not) succeed in America

[maxi90]

The funny thing is, given how much emphasis americans put in sports competitions at grade, middle, and high school levels, if they really put their minds to it, they could muster a very strong national side in a decade or two. The tools are all there. They just need to put them to use and understand that it is going to take some time before they can see results.

[Acco]

That type of play will never captivate Americans as a whole. It doesn't play into our psyche at all. We won't sit through 90+ minutes of our team getting beaten into the ground while playing for a tie or to force a shootout.

I get Klinnsmann is trying to get the team further down the road for Russia 2016, but if you want to cultivate a game in a country, you need to build a team that plays like the country expects it to play.

He had them playing totally conservative the entire tournament. Boo.

Get better on the defense or clog up the middle. This type of play will always be considered boring in the US. We love defense, just not this type of defense.

Russia 2018*

If you win, no one cares about how you play. If Wondolowski had buried that sitter, you probably wouldn't have made this post. I was at a big public viewing of the game and no one was uttering "wow, this style of play is so un-American, this is so against my psyche", everyone was hopeful that the team would hold on, snatch a goal, and move on to the next round. In fact, I'd rather the USA not get caught up in playing a certain way because it's 'their' way, just win and no one will complain. Ask people if they'd rather go to the semifinals playing gritty and defensive soccer or get knocked out in the group stage going all-out, sure you'll go out with your head somewhat high, but let me tell you that'll get old real fast.

Basically Soccer is to the US what American Football is to Europe. Yes some people play it, but its a minor sport.

I know you're trying to provide a comparison for non-Americans here but this is not a correct comparison. American football is nonexistent in Europe, it doesn't register at all on the list of popular sports in most countries, whereas soccer has a pretty big following in the USA and in the last decade or so has become mainstream to a certain extent.

Also the USA could benefit from doing what both the Swiss and Algerians benefited from this year...

Look for American eligible kids living in Europe or SA and convince them to join the USA.

The USA already does that. Out of today's players, Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, and Julian Green were produced in Germany (they are the sons of American soldiers with German spouses). They also missed out on some top talents: Neven Subotic of Serbia (not born in the USA but a refugee and represented USA for u-20), Giuseppe Rossi, American-born Italian striker who Italy probably should've called up to this tournament, and striker Vedad Ibisevic of Bosnia (refugee).

[chilon]

The funny thing is, given how much emphasis americans put in sports competitions at grade, middle, and high school levels, if they really put their minds to it, they could muster a very strong national side in a decade or two. The tools are all there. They just need to put them to use and understand that it is going to take some time before they can see results.

Importing coaches at the youth level would help. The pockets in America that tend to produce many of players (So Cal, Pacific Northwest, Kansas area, parts Texas, New Jersey and New England) also generally tend to have for whatever reason a number of SA or European coaches at various levels.

If there were youth structures to get players from all the different geographical pockets to play against each other more at younger ages with knowledgeable foreign coaches and then there was a system for players to go train at European clubs like Julian Green then that would go a long way IMO.

[chilon]

The USA already does that. Out of today's players, Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, and Julian Green were produced in Germany (they are the sons of American soldiers with German spouses). They also missed out on some top talents: Neven Subotic of Serbia (not born in the USA but a refugee and represented USA for u-20), Giuseppe Rossi, American-born Italian striker who Italy probably should've called up to this tournament, and striker Vedad Ibisevic of Bosnia (refugee).

True. Just have to be more aggressive. I remember Rossi when younger. Was really hoping he would pick USA.

Anyway!!!!

I am working on an appropriate avatar for you !

[Caesar Germanico]

True. Just have to be more aggressive. I remember Rossi when younger. Was really hoping he would pick USA.

Anyway!!!!

I am working on an appropriate avatar for you !

Rossi is a first generation american IIRC and moved back to Italy when he was 12, quite improbable he would have picked USA.He would have been the star of the team obviously, I am really sorry Prandelli left him behind.

You can't forget infrastructure. Its a trifecta of population, culture and infrastructure.

Some of the African nations, like Nigeria, being an example of a nation with sufficient population and culture but insufficient infrastructure as demonstrated by their subtle behind the scenes meltdown this year.

----
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Of course, infrastructure is fundmental.You should read about Ghana for a behind scene meltdown.

[Facupay]

Rossi is a first generation american IIRC and moved back to Italy when he was 12, quite improbable he would have picked USA.He would have been the star of the team obviously, I am really sorry Prandelli left him behind.

I was glad when I heard he wasn't in Italy's 23, any particlular reason Prandelli left such a great player? I thought he had recovered from his injury.

[chilon]

Rossi is a first generation american IIRC and moved back to Italy when he was 12, quite improbable he would have picked USA.He would have been the star of the team obviously, I am really sorry Prandelli left him behind.



Of course, infrastructure is fundmental.You should read about Ghana for a behind scene meltdown.

Oops I actually meant Ghana and not Nigeria.

[Caesar Germanico]

I was glad when I heard he wasn't in Italy's 23, any particlular reason Prandelli left such a great player? I thought he had recovered from his injury.

No one knows precisly why, in fact there was quite a polemic between Rossi and the Italian management.Initially it seemed Rossi failed some physical tests and not yet recovered, though he later claimed otherwise.

One theory is that Montolivo's injury was particulary troubling for Prandelli whom later decided to play with only one striker and so leave Rossi in Italy.Anyway, Prandelli is an incompetent with or without that excuse, the man was always overrated in all of his career.

Actually, thinking about it more, if he really completely changed his plans because Montolivo got injured I would have some diffuculty in finding a sufficient insult; a player like Montolivo doesn't even deserve the call for the wc.

Oops I actually meant Ghana and not Nigeria.

Ah!It makes sense now, indeed I wasn't aware about Nigeria having a meltdown.

[Claudius Gothicus]

I think the USA has both the elements and the spirit, they just need more experience in international stages and maybe a little improvement in terms of manpower (something that as many others have already pointed out can be solved at youth levels). But to get the required "experience", the kind of tradition that both South Americans and Europeans have and the practical knowledge that guides you around the obvious mistakes like missing those 2 goals at the last minute, US teams need to get into more competitive championships more often, both at club and national team levels.

I would totally support a permanent invitation for the USMNT to participate in the Copa America and CONMEBOL should definitely consider inviting 1 or 2 tops teams from the MLS as well.

[Macunaíma]

I would totally support a permanent invitation for the USMNT to participate in the Copa America and CONMEBOL should definitely consider inviting 1 or 2 tops teams from the MLS as well.

A Libertadores with USA teams would be indeed interesting. And funny. There would be really no problem, since Mexico is already in and CONMEBOL is even considering bringing Central America teams, too. I hope americans like dramatic matches .

[maxi90]

I would totally support a permanent invitation for the USMNT to participate in the Copa America and CONMEBOL should definitely consider inviting 1 or 2 tops teams from the MLS as well.

I don´t know about that. What would the competition, or the teams in it, win from that? They would just take the place of other teams and honestly, it would just increase exponentialy the number a flight hours in an already too large competition, geographicaly speaking. Mind you, I´m not a fan of Mexican teams being part of it either.

edit: The CONMEBOL thing I mean. I have no problem of letting the US or any other CONCACAF country play in the Copa America.

[the_mango55]

While the US certainly has the potential to win the WC I don't think it will in the near future because the best talent generally goes to other sports, and a "grassroots" movement isn't likely to change that. You can make big money with the sport, but people want to make big money IN AMERICA and that won't happen with MLS. They also want national fame and noteriety. If you're the best American Football or Basketball player your name and face is everywhere, you're in tons of commercials, you're on ESPN every week, etc. If you're the greatest Association Football player you're a star for a couple months every four years.

[Acco]

The 2016 Copa America will be a combined CONCACAF-CONMEBOL tournament hosted in the USA, which judging by this World Cup should be a pretty competitive tournament if FIFA gives it full sanctioning (so that A teams can be used by all teams).

The problem with inviting CONCACAF teams to the Copa America is that usually they have to send u-23 teams (either because of FIFA or the Gold Cup is usually the month before and they don't want to use the A team players for two straight months). Both Costa Rica and Mexico had C teams in the 2011 Copa America and didn't do anything in the tournament. USA also sent a C team the last time it played in the Copa America (2007).

[PikeStance]

I learned recently NBA teams even have a thing called "revenue sharing", where the wealthy teams pay millions in cash for the unwealthy ones after each season.
So far for communist euro-sports.

Revenue sharing is done on matter that benefits the league as a whole, like television and merchandise. What keeps "unwealthy" competitive is salary caps. However, not necessarily.

I'd say that guy who missed at the end of regular time would be out of a career if the US looses, but then again once the US is out no one will care about soccer anymore so meh

Basically Soccer is to the US what American Football is to Europe. Yes some people play it, but its a minor sport.

There is a huge misconception here.... The US is a sports nation with sports stacked all year round. People do not lose interest, they just move on to the next sports onn the schedule. Unlike elsewhere in the world most sports fans are equally strong sports fans in several sports. If you ask an American what is there favorite sport, they will most likely give you a list.

Mostly due to the US High School Sports system. As I understand it, in most of Europe schools don't have sports teams attached to them.

The number of soccer players plummets substantially after puberty for some reason. I don't know how many people play handball in Europe. Just imagine a game that LOTS of children play, that also has play through high school and college and even a pro-league................just that no one really cares about. BUT pretty much every white or latino child in the US will play soccer...............until they're like 11.

Which is why I compared it to American Football in Europe, if you took away the children portion.

When I was a kid (in the 70s) I played every sport my playground provided (Football, track, Basketball, Baseball, soccer). In the 90s, my nephews did the same thing. When kids hit high school, they often choose the port they are best at. This is not always the case, sometimes, they are pressured to play one sport over the next. Usually, adults would advocate one they played when they were young. Anyway, soccer isn't the only sport where they is a drop in numbers.

In the 1980 hardly anyone played soccer. I hardly knew of any leagues other than the internal leagues of individual playgrounds. Starting in the 90s and more so after 1994, I saw a huge boom in interest and participation. When I started refereeing in 1995, 90% plus of the parents did not play soccer as a youth. Those kids that were playing in the 1990s are now having kids (30 or 40 years old). We know have the children of the "soccer moms" of the 1990 playing soccer. If each new generation, you will see a rise in interest of the sport.

When MLS started they played mostly in football stadiums. Now, the vast majority of teams play in (or will in the future) play in soccer specific stadiums. In the beginning the league had trouble getting ownership and sponsors. Now, they are getting owners of other major sports showing a strong interest. The sport is rising and for the life of me, I can;t figure out why so many people want to claim the opposite.

What a game!

Congrats on your fighting spirit USA!

To be honest I thought the bye bye comment was poor, but in my eyes, this was classy of you!

What did they put into the USA drink's bottles? They seemed to 'come alive' in the 2nd half of extra time.

Well, we still have strong diplomatic relations with Colombia.

He's gonna be going home a lot of times then.

The US, unlike in everything else, is at the moment small or medium-sized nation in football and if it wants to achieve anything it has to play accordingly. The US was THIS close to a miracle but, in the end, the team that had better players in almost every position won. If the US had gone all out from the beginning there was a 20% chance of beating the Belgians and an 80% chance of being annhilated.

I wouldn't call a US victory over Belgium a miracle. Belgium is at best a "darkhorse."
The US did have a suspect defense, however, its real weakness is a lack of creativeness in the attacking third. The US would often bring the ball to the attacking third, then be clueless or made poor decision once they got there. As a consequence, no shot on goal. The shot goal ratio was misleading. Belgium on the other hand was able to create something. The bottom line is the US lacked that something in the midfield. This being said, if the US had scored in the 93rd minute this would be a mute point. What ifs, like stats, are for losers. Better teams find a way to win. The US didn't therefore, is was not the better team.

[the_mango55]

I learned recently NBA teams even have a thing called "revenue sharing", where the wealthy teams pay millions in cash for the unwealthy ones after each season.

So far for communist euro-sports.

NFL is even more "communist" than the NBA. Very strict salary cap (NBA's has much more flexibility which favors teams that are already good and allows them to keep their players) and even greater revenue sharing. Plus of course there is the draft, which means that if a team is bad for several years in a row then if they are smart and pick correctly they will have some fantastic young players very soon. There's an anecdote of one of the owners of the NFL teams when they were voting on revenue sharing stating they were "26 Republicans who vote like socialists"

These rules make a much more competitive league. Competitive balance in the NFL is basically unparallelled. Out of 32 teams, only 13 have not won a Superbowl, and only 4 have never been to a Superbowl. These teams (Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions, Houston Texans and Jacksonville Jaguars) are either notoriously incompetent, fairly new, or both. Almost every team's fans can start the year with ligitimate hope that they can make the playoffs, which is more than you can say for most sports. I think that goes a long way to making the NFL America's favorite sports league by far.

I know you probably just posted that in response to Ann Coulter, but yeah she's an idiot.

[chilon]

In the 1980 hardly anyone played soccer. I hardly knew of any leagues other than the internal leagues of individual playgrounds. Starting in the 90s and more so after 1994, I saw a huge boom in interest and participation. When I started refereeing in 1995, 90% plus of the parents did not play soccer as a youth. Those kids that were playing in the 1990s are now having kids (30 or 40 years old). We know have the children of the "soccer moms" of the 1990 playing soccer. If each new generation, you will see a rise in interest of the sport.

Bolded part is not true at youth level but true at pro level. There was an indoor soccer league in the 1980s (MISL) with teams like the LA Lazers but that wasn't supported or sponsored like MLS in the 1990s. A huge number of kids played soccer throughout the entire 1980s ever since the NASL and AYSO, myself included during every year of the 1980s. In California soccer was huge for youth throughout the 1980s. Where it fell off was in high school where the coaches of other sports politically blocked soccer in a lot of ways and there just wasn't established infrastructure. That started to change with the 1994 World Cup here though when more foundations were laid.

[PikeStance]

NFL is even more "communist" than the NBA. Very strict salary cap (NBA's has much more flexibility which favors teams that are already good and allows them to keep their players) and even greater revenue sharing. Plus of course there is the draft, which means that if a team is bad for several years in a row then if they are smart and pick correctly they will have some fantastic young players very soon. There's an anecdote of one of the owners of the NFL teams when they were voting on revenue sharing stating they were "26 Republicans who vote like socialists"

The problem is picking early in the draft does not mean you are getting the best players. There are as many busts (maybe more actually) in the draft as they are gems. In the NFL you cannot spend your way to a championship; you have to build an organization that functions with cohesion or you won't have success on the field.

These rules make a much more competitive league. Competitive balance in the NFL is basically unparallelled. Out of 32 teams, only 13 have not won a Superbowl, and only 4 have never been to a Superbowl. These teams (Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions, Houston Texans and Jacksonville Jaguars) are either notoriously incompetent, fairly new, or both. Almost every team's fans can start the year with ligitimate hope that they can make the playoffs, which is more than you can say for most sports. I think that goes a long way to making the NFL America's favorite sports league by far.
I know you probably just posted that in response to Ann Coulter, but yeah she's an idiot.

You are referring to the Super Bowl only,...however... The Detroit Lions won a few NFL Championship in the 1950s. Also Cleveland was one of the most successful AFL teams winning the championship several times in a row. Just a note, the old Cleveland Brown team is now the Baltimore Ravens. However a deal with Art Model (former owner of the Browns/ Ravens), allow the history of the old Browns to be part of the new Browns team.

[PikeStance]

Bolded part is not true at youth level but true at pro level. There was an indoor soccer league in the 1980s (MISL) with teams like the LA Lazers but that wasn't supported or sponsored like MLS in the 1990s. A huge number of kids played soccer throughout the entire 1980s ever since the NASL and AYSO, myself included during every year of the 1980s. In California soccer was huge for youth throughout the 1980s. Where it fell off was in high school where the coaches of other sports politically blocked soccer in a lot of ways and there just wasn't established infrastructure. That started to change with the 1994 World Cup here though when more foundations were laid.

My statements were relative to current conditions. BTW, I was one of those kids that played in the 80s and watch the indoor league. However, I was often force to watch soccer on univision once cable came out. There was very little on TV until the 1990s. (I watched all of the 86 World Cup in Spanish and half of the 1990 World Cup (the other half on TNT).

[Macunaíma]

Didn't the US participate in the first World Cups back in the 30s? Doesn't that mean that there was already professional football in the country back then? How do they still have no football culture, or any reasonable relevance in the sport?

[I WUB PUGS]

In the 1980 hardly anyone played soccer.

<-Played soccer at the ages of 5 and 6 in the great years of 1988 and 1989. Along with most kids of all different backgrounds and colors in Brevard County Florida. Space Coast Soccer represent!

Not sure how it is now but when I was in high school in the early 1990s we didn't even have a soccer team because the American football coaches were so biased and lobbied against it for years. For some odd reason there was always a resentment from American Football and baseball coaches to soccer even being included. Probably better now. Perception has definitely changed but for a long time the bias of 'American sports' coaches was a big reason that soccer infrastructure was delayed except in certain pockets in some cities and areas.

I grew up in an affluent cracker area of coastal Florida, so maybe it was different there. I don't know when my HS got a soccer team, but they certainly had one when I was there from 1998-2001. Plenty of club soccer around too with camps over winter and summer.

We were at football and soccer though. A baseball school 100%.

Didn't the US participate in the first World Cups back in the 30s? Doesn't that mean that there was already professional football in the country back then? How do they still have no football culture, or any reasonable relevance in the sport?

Baseball was king back then anyway, but since the 1960s its been a steady increase in dominance by football. Some spurts in popularity by basketball too. Soccer's always been REALLY marginal.