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Thread: Anthropology of Bronze Age

  1. #1

    Default Anthropology of Bronze Age

    For historical authenticity should be choosed the correct anthropological types of units of different factions. For example units of Andronovo Culture (http://i.imgur.com/OfETmhe.jpg) choosed not correctly. They should be not brunettes, but blondes and browns, as the Scythians, Germans, Celts in Vanilla. By type of face they should be similar to Northern Europeans, such as the Germans and not the Front Asians such as Armenians.

    Andronovo Culture types:





    Hair color of Andronovo Cultute woman:


  2. #2
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by eugen8h View Post
    For historical authenticity should be choosed the correct anthropological types of units of different factions. For example units of Andronovo Culture (http://i.imgur.com/OfETmhe.jpg) choosed not correctly. They should be not brunettes, but blondes and browns, as the Scythians, Germans, Celts in Vanilla. By type of face they should be similar to Northern Europeans, such as the Germans and not the Front Asians such as Armenians.

    Andronovo Culture types:





    Hair color of Andronovo Cultute woman:

    I am confused what you want me to change, they do have brown hair. Also, saying like the "Scythians, Germans, Celts in Vanilla" is difficult to interpret because they were ethnically unrelated groups, their only connection was they were all indo-european cultures. I am doubly confused because the image you show as a example of a "Andronovo Cultute woman" is actually of the Pazyryk culture(6th-3rd centuries BC), I can tell by her detailed shoulder tattoo, and according to the genetic testing carried out on other Pazyryk culture mummies they are very genetically related to the modern day Altai Turkish peoples. In short, the Andronovo culture peoples, who were classic Iranic peoples, might have had similar hair to the mummy you have, but she is too genetically and chronologically distant for me, I would prefer something closer to the timeperiod.

    I will use your first two images as resources when I overhaul the Andronovo Culture soon, so thank you for those.

    I just ask you clarify your statement so I can better alleviate your concerns.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Thank you for your comment and sorry for my bad English. I'll try to explain more precisely. In the Vanilla each culture corresponds to a certain racial type of heroes and units. I say that to units Andronovo Сulture will best suit anthropological types of Vanilla cultures "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic". That's all. Now I see in your units of Andronovo Сulture anthropological types of Vanilla cultures "Eastern", "Iberian", may be "Punic" etc. I propose to remove these types and leave exclusively types "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic", or only one of them, for example, only "Tribal Nomadic".

    P.S. I do not propose to divide the hair color and type of face. They are interconnected. I'm just propose to take for Andronovo culture Vanilla types "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic", they have already met the right balance between the type of pigmentation and type of face, and that the most historically accurate for the Andronovo Culture in TWR2.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Likewise, you should check other factions to match their historical anthropological types.

  5. #5
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by eugen8h View Post
    Thank you for your comment and sorry for my bad English. I'll try to explain more precisely. In the Vanilla each culture corresponds to a certain racial type of heroes and units. I say that to units Andronovo Сulture will best suit anthropological types of Vanilla cultures "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic". That's all. Now I see in your units of Andronovo Сulture anthropological types of Vanilla cultures "Eastern", "Iberian", may be "Punic" etc. I propose to remove these types and leave exclusively types "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic", or only one of them, for example, only "Tribal Nomadic".

    P.S. I do not propose to divide the hair color and type of face. They are interconnected. I'm just propose to take for Andronovo culture Vanilla types "Tribal Nomadic", "Germanic" and "Celtic", they have already met the right balance between the type of pigmentation and type of face, and that the most historically accurate for the Andronovo Culture in TWR2.
    I am still pretty confused, but I will certainly think more about their ethnicity and facial features when I overhaul that roster, and I will use two of the images you provided.

  6. #6
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Is it possible to make new faces? If not all we can really do is hair colour and height.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontfearme22 View Post
    I am still pretty confused, but I will certainly think more about their ethnicity and facial features when I overhaul that roster, and I will use two of the images you provided.
    Factions of "Tribal Nomadic" culture in Vanilla - they are Scythians - heirs of Andronovo culture. Believe me, that "TW Rome 2" developers have selected the correct their anthropological type. I propose to maintain this type ("Tribal Nomadic") for Andronovo culture in your mod.

    I cite evidence that racial type Andronovo culture is the Northern Europid:

    "In lowness of vault and breadth of face, the Minussinsk skulls resemble the Ukrainian Bronze Age group. On the whole, they form a far eastward wing of the typical Bronze Age population which reached from Austria and Bohemia to central Asia and the term "Nordic," in the skeletal sense, is as applicable in the east as in the west. One must expect regional differences in a racial type covering such an extensive area. In this case the difference is simply that the vaults are higher and the faces narrower in the west, as far as Poland, and the reverse from the Ukraine on eastward. The Andronovo or Minussinsk Kurgan culture lasted from about 1000 B.C. to 1 A.D., and was followed by other cultures, which lasted until the eighth century, when the Kirghiz came in".
    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V11.htm

    And more Andronovo types on video:

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  9. #9
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by eugen8h View Post
    Factions of "Tribal Nomadic" culture in Vanilla - they are Scythians - heirs of Andronovo culture. Believe me, that "TW Rome 2" developers have selected the correct their anthropological type. I propose to maintain this type ("Tribal Nomadic") for Andronovo culture in your mod.

    I cite evidence that racial type Andronovo culture is the Northern Europid:

    "In lowness of vault and breadth of face, the Minussinsk skulls resemble the Ukrainian Bronze Age group. On the whole, they form a far eastward wing of the typical Bronze Age population which reached from Austria and Bohemia to central Asia and the term "Nordic," in the skeletal sense, is as applicable in the east as in the west. One must expect regional differences in a racial type covering such an extensive area. In this case the difference is simply that the vaults are higher and the faces narrower in the west, as far as Poland, and the reverse from the Ukraine on eastward. The Andronovo or Minussinsk Kurgan culture lasted from about 1000 B.C. to 1 A.D., and was followed by other cultures, which lasted until the eighth century, when the Kirghiz came in".
    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V11.htm

    And more Andronovo types on video:
    I think I understand you know, I will make those changes when I overhaul the Andronovo culture.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Thank you. But this racial type is not just of Andronovo culture. Steppe tribes (on your map) too:
    https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/...73d0cd61_o.jpg
    And who will take you to Indian Сulture at the beginning of the game? Dravidian or Indo-Europeans? If the Indo-Europeans, there is also needed racial type such as Andronovo culture.

  11. #11
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by eugen8h View Post
    Thank you. But this racial type is not just of Andronovo culture. Steppe tribes (on your map) too:
    https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/...73d0cd61_o.jpg
    And who will take you to Indian Сulture at the beginning of the game? Dravidian or Indo-Europeans? If the Indo-Europeans, there is also needed racial type such as Andronovo culture.
    Understood, but with regards to the Indians all genetic and anthropological evidence points to them looking, well...eastern. Even if they are Indo-Iranics. The Steppe tribes regardless already have more Nordic looks.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontfearme22 View Post
    Understood, but with regards to the Indians all genetic and anthropological evidence points to them looking, well...eastern. Even if they are Indo-Iranics. The Steppe tribes regardless already have more Nordic looks.
    In the Bronze Age in India it was the different social classes. Indo-European (Indo-Iranics) conquerors-exploiters of "Nordic" type and exploited-conquered non-Indo-European aboriginal population of "Eastern" type. Indian army at this time consisted primarily of the conquerors, not the conquered.

  13. #13
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Perhaps I read what you said wrong but are you suggesting the Indian army would consist of Nordic looking fellows? because mate, I can tell you first hand there is no Nordic blood flowing in India and probably never was.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    "Nordic" Indo-Iranian conquerors was very little compared with the local population, so it all depends on what period after the conquest we are considering. If the earliest period, the Indian army can consist of people of "Nordic" type. If a later period, probably can not, because conquerors were few and they quickly teamed up with the local aboriginal population, including recruited an army people of "Eastern" ("Non-Nordic") type.

    Maybe should have done the Indian army mixed, of different types, "Eastern" and "Nordic".

  15. #15

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    the Aryans were related with the Andronovo culture and knew the weapon technics like the chariots.
    Trained Elephants for war and defeated the harappa culture and the dark skinned indians. The Aryans were white like the nordic indian peoples today but really not nordic looking. I know about blue and green eyed people in northern india but this could be from every else.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 










  16. #16

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    Everything depends on the historical period. In the Bronze Age Nordic-looking people in India had more, but today few of them stayed.
    <span tabindex="-1" id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">

  17. #17

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    India from 1:35
    http://youtu.be/o0TQ1gj8GQo

  18. #18
    vlakc's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    About this whole indian-aryan discussion, by what people are suggesting, then all of the eastern factions (including Armenia and Persia and perhaps excluding the Caucasian factions) would have to be given a nordic-looking appearance or at least a similar appearance that the vanilla steppe nomad factions, while the Semitic factions (Phoenicia, Arabia, Babylon etc.) would use the vanilla eastern faces?

    I confess I don't know much about the subject, but I do have heard many times that northern Indians are different from southern indian because they have a different ethno-linguistic background (indo-european and dravidian respectively), but by that logic, and since Indians and Iranians are closely related, aren't the vanilla Persians wrongly depicted then? since they were given a more "semitic-looking" physique?.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Anthropology of Bronze Age

    About this whole indian-aryan discussion, by what people are suggesting, then all of the eastern factions (including Armenia and Persia and perhaps excluding the Caucasian factions) would have to be given a nordic-looking appearance or at least a similar appearance that the vanilla steppe nomad factions, while the Semitic factions (Phoenicia, Arabia, Babylon etc.) would use the vanilla eastern faces?
    Yes. You got it right.


    I confess I don't know much about the subject, but I do have heard many times that northern Indians are different from southern indian because they have a different ethno-linguistic background (indo-european and dravidian respectively), but by that logic, and since Indians and Iranians are closely related, aren't the vanilla Persians wrongly depicted then? since they were given a more "semitic-looking" physique?.
    Maybe the vanilla Persians depicted not wrongly. Because Vanilla is 3rd century BC, but our mod is the 16th century BC. The difference is 1300 years old! During this time, the original "Nordic"-looking Persians mingled with the local aboriginal "Non-Nordic"-looking population. Therefore, TWR2 developers have done correctly. But this mod developers have another task - to portray the physical types of the Bronze Age, when the Persians were "Nordic"-looking.

    P.S. In times closer to Vanilla were also recorded "Nordic"-looking Persian soldiers:


  20. #20

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