[Discussion] Modding Awards and the Curia

[The Hedge Knight]

Hey all, I hope this is the right place to post this, if not please could the Curator move it some place more appropriate.

It has come to my attention of late that the modding awards on TWC are perceived by some, myself included, as being in a little bit of a mess right now. The question therefore is whether we (the Cvria) can do anything to remedy this.

1: The Opifex

The scope and purpose of the Opifex seems to me to be slightly ambiguous (see the recent Curial commentary thread). In my mind the Opifex should be a fairly broad award considered to be an award for major contributions to modding or for the facilitation of modding in any related sense.

The constitution says:

To qualify for an Opifex award, the nominee must have made exceptional input to TW sections of the boards, either by modding or other contributions related to the TW section. A member of any Rank is eligible to receive an Opifex award, but must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen.

In my mind this should read something like:

To qualify for an Opifex award, the nominee must have made exceptional input to Total War sections of the boards, either by modding or any contribution facilitating modding. A member of any Rank is eligible to receive an Opifex award, but must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen.

The Opifex is also plagued by in my mind being far to large a step from Artifex. Given the amount of modding going on this site it seems bizarre to me less than one person a month achieves these heights in the eyes of the Cvria. A quick forum search (page by page, I may have missed a couple) reveals the following numbers of nominations:

2014 (So far): 4
2013: 5 (All by me incidently)
2012: 4
2011: 14
2010: 9
2009: 7
2008: 17 + 1 Team Nomination
2007: 13 + 8 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...als-for-Opifex) + 5 Team Nominations
2006: 18
2005: NA

In terms of awards that leads to:
2014: 2 - So far
2013: 5
2012: 2
2011: 13
2010: 9
2009: 5
2008: 17
2007: 34
2006: 11
2005: NA


It seems pretty clear to me that there is a pretty strong downwards trend in the number of nominations and I really have to ask why this is:
- Is it because the bar has by consensus become higher?
- Is it because it is too much effort to write a nomination (If you check some of the older ones then they say 'I nominate X' and leave it for discussion, is that ok)?
- Is it because the Cvria has become out of touch with the modding side of the forum?
- Is it because you feel you lack the expertise required to make a nomination?

The site has been more active with more modding occurring in the past few years than probably any time in its history. Modding has become more complex in many areas (E.g. Med II buildings being moddable) and yet somehow the number of nominations has dropped dramatically. Though I appreciate that the Opifex is but a small part of modding I do feel this shows some degree of apathy towards modders in general.

Does this matter need resolving and is there anything that the Cvria can do to resolve it?

2: A Medium Award

Its pretty clear the Opifex is a lofty height at the moment. We discussed this before in this thread but I think the Cvria got distracted by abolishing the Cdec and the discussion died.

A medium award between the current Opifex and Artifex status might remedy the above Opifex problem (and the below problem) though I fear it would also suffer an inflation of standards as I believe the Opifex has. That said I feel like a medium award would make for a good 'thanks' from the Cvria to many modders on this site.

I would personally like to see an award for people who have worked on major overhauls and the like or for people who have generally been good sport long term modders who have perhaps not quite reached the level of Opifex (which I feel should be reserved for mainly people breaking novel ground or other exceptional feats).

3: The Modding Awards

Where to start here? It seems that nobody really cares about the modding awards and they currently suffer from a number of problems:
-Nominations are low - See uncontested entries
-Votes are low
-They are intermittent / Don't happen at all until everyone has forgotten what actually happened in the year in question (2013).
-The general public lacks the expertise to judge what individual modders contributed to large projects
-They are nothing but a popularity contest, big mods take everything from perhaps more deserving parties

You can see Ishan's (2012 organiser) thoughts on the matter here.

In my mind it may be best to do away with the modding awards and replace them with a medium award (as above), they don't reward the right people and often reward the wrong people (I think I have 7 for various projects, more than my fair share). Failing that it is clear that they need some reform in structure and direction though I am unsure how that could happen in a novel way which has not been attempted before.

I'm very eager to hear anyone’s thoughts on any of these things as they have all been bothering me for a while.

[Aikanár]

You have to take into consideration, that the nature of Opifex changed. Before July 29th 2007 it was a rank, not an award. Soon (it took about a year) after the nature of Opifex was changed, team proposals dropped to zero. I don't know why that happened. Maybe an opinion shift took place with the participating members in the curia from rewarding teams to rewarding more individuals.

From a personal perspective, having proposed two successful Opifices (one already being a citizen, the other being a full member) and taking some other successful nominations into considerations, I don't think that the bar for Opifex is set to high.

On the other hand, I know at least one citizen whom I think deserves more than one Opifex award and has none. I've not proposed said citizen because of the work done being not released in full.

Also, I wager the guess that there are more citizens out there and most probably some full members too, who deserve Opifex.

Since I was absent the last year, I don't know what happened to the former so popular modding awards and since I'm uninformed in that matter, I can't arrive at an informed opinion about it, as of yet.

With regards to a medium award for modding, I wouldn't have a problem with it. In contrary, I believe that people who contribute should be acknowledged. However this is done is another question. But I agree with you that there is a gap between citizenship and Opifex and that this gap could very well be filled with a medium award of sorts.

[The Hedge Knight]

In a practical sense what is the difference between a rank and a medal? Did it confer any rights or privileges?

[Aikanár]

It was a rank conferring citizen rights. But I think that's irrelevant to today's situation and to the discussion about a medium award.

However, I do think it's relevant when looking at the history of Opifex and when trying to understand why more people got awarded with it than today.

[The Hedge Knight]

Given that Opifex apparently still does confer citizen rights (I nominated Taw, he gained citizenship and the badge as a result) I do not see why that should have revalued the award. Regardless team nominations for large mods to me do not seem unreasonable, though I can understand difficulties differentiating core team members and more minor players in some mods.

[Aikanár]

I just don't think you can compare the situation of back in the day, when there was the Civitate badge for all 1st tier ranked citizens and Patricians for the 2nd tier Citizens on the one hand and the rank Opifex on the other hand.

Then there was the change in the system mid '07 an from then on things changed and evolved other than they have been before.

Hence I find it hard to compare the old Opifex rank and for what some people got awarded with it with some people and what they got awarded since late '08.

As I've said, I don't know why, but when looking at who got opifex for what since then, it -at least to me- appears a if a change in mentality had taken place.

Therefore, actually, just personally, I don't know whether we could actually compare post and ante change Opifices to be honest.

And to be perfectly honest with you, I don't think that this matters, at all. I don't think that this is relevant to the discussion you like to have here: whether or not a medium award would be a good idea. I think that it is a good idea

[Augustus Lucifer]

I've always been in favor of modding and awards for modding being wholly separate from the Curia. I tried to do something with that back when the Consilium Belli was still a thing, but scope creep got in the way of getting it out there and letting people run with it. The Curia is useful for site wide initiatives, and can be put to use for personal initiatives that garner support, but it's generally useless for having the pulse on each area of the site, modding especially, and pursuing worthwhile projects or meaningful changes for those areas. It's also comparatively unqualified in determining modding merit compared to a 'jury of peers'.

Basically some iteration of what you're suggesting has been cycling around for at least 5 years, possibly more (I think Prof had some back in 2007 that were similar), but never seems to gain traction. Rather than go into ideas and all that, I'll just post a proposal covering what I feel the first step needs to be if there's support for such a change. GED is also doing something with changes to the Curia and etc, though I think the two aren't mutually exclusive or conflicting.

[Aikanár]

Hm, I think that having modders exclusively judging modders does not really further the inclusiveness and modder-friendly atmosphere of TWC. To be honest, I hold the contrary to be true. At least according to my experience, it was most of the times the opinion of none-modders who convinced me that a modder was deserving of recognition and not the opinion of fellow modders.

According to my experience its the none-modders who go: wow that's great! That should be awarded (with rep or a modding award nomination or what not). While those who actually do the work sometimes tend to go more like: well, yeah that's nice but don't really take that much of an effort other than time and it's not exactly spectacular either bla bla.

However, that might just be my experience and might not be true for others.

I guess what I wanted to say is, that you don't need to be an expert in modding to like something or appreciate something or find something outstanding.

[PikeStance]

There definitely needs to have something between citizenship and the awards. I have made a suggestion in the forum magnum, but no one seems to like it. Whatever the solution, something needs to be done. The Curia should be about recognizing contribution to the site. To date, there is little that can be done. You either lower the awards standards, but at some point you would be force to create another high award. BTW, I am not just talking about modding but all areas of the site.

[Hetairos]

I think the post count ranks are pretty awesome (besides that I am totally no Rome fan and would love to see Greek ranks hehe). There is gradual progression and reward so to speak.

Since, we can not blow other awards up in the same scope... and since I agree (as a new citizen) that there is no visual / clear progression path concerning Civitate, Citizen, Artifex... I see only a few options:

- keep the awards very exclusive, don't change anything and save the time and effort
- rethink the entire systems concept and waste the time and effort to fight against the opposing citizens
- do gradual changes step by step, begin somewhere, implement it, see how it goes and decide what comes after

EDIT: Speaking of the Roman post count ranks, one could implement rewards like medals awarded in the Roman army when having done something very exceptional, courageous and heroic (RSII has those awards implemented for a reference point).

[Squid]

Despite not trying to link this to CdeC, it's fairly clear that as CdeC standards got higher and higher for granting people citizenship, then correspondingly the criteria for opifex (and phalera) was also raised, which of course means fewer people actually have reached the new ridiculously lofty standards.

[m_1512]

Despite not trying to link this to CdeC, it's fairly clear that as CdeC standards got higher and higher for granting people citizenship, then correspondingly the criteria for opifex (and phalera) was also raised, which of course means fewer people actually have reached the new ridiculously lofty standards.

Not meaning to be off-topic, but these dismal Opifex figures might also mean even bleak figures for Phalera award, which I think only I had proposed it last year and there has not been any awarded from then. I'll not make a separate thread about this as this thread pretty much speaks a lot about this. Coming to the point, the CdeC is no more. But as people are hesitating to propose awards for someone, then we might be missing something here.

[Squid]

Not meaning to be off-topic, but these dismal Opifex figures might also mean even bleak figures for Phalera award, which I think only I had proposed it last year and there has not been any awarded from then. I'll not make a separate thread about this as this thread pretty much speaks a lot about this. Coming to the point, the CdeC is no more. But as people are hesitating to propose awards for someone, then we might be missing something here.

Give it time, I did say in my proposal that I expected it to take at least six months to a year for things to settle into a new normal.

[m_1512]

Give it time, I did say in my proposal that I expected it to take at least six months to a year for things to settle into a new normal.

Cool, I'll take your word as it held true for citizenship applications in just some months after the change.

It seems pretty clear to me that there is a pretty strong downwards trend in the number of nominations and I really have to ask why this is:
- Is it because the bar has by consensus become higher?
- Is it because it is too much effort to write a nomination (If you check some of the older ones then they say 'I nominate X' and leave it for discussion, is that ok)?
- Is it because the Cvria has become out of touch with the modding side of the forum?
- Is it because you feel you lack the expertise required to make a nomination?

I'll put some points here. You don't have to take them, they are just perspective.
- Yes, it seems to have been high, whether due to CdeC or not, I would not know.
- It is the same effort as you write a citizen application. Pretty much what you need to put is who the member is, and what they have done.
- Perhaps, although this cannot be measured how much. But if you look at other similar level awards in comparison to this one, you'll find this to be slight more generous.
- What expertise do you think is need for proposing? If you can patronize an artifex, then you can propose this too. But I think this point is related to the your first one about standards being too high. Further, I also think it is the reluctance due to being bashed if you propose a member for an award.