Thread: 'Star Wars' discussions

  1. #4281
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    I will probably see the movie -- at home -- on video -- at some point. I am not excited. I remember the real spark and excitement with the first Star Wars decades ago. I do not expect the same spark after all the sequals, prequels, mass merchandising, and actors who have aged or even died of age, etcetera. I think the recent review http://variety.com/2017/film/columns...es-1202643241/ says it all about my recycled disappointment. We have reached the end when we start wondering which other movie a certain scene is a repeat of.

  2. #4282

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    worst star wars movie of all time, the only time i had the same amount of cringe in the theatres was watching the battle of five armies, and that says a lot. It was hilariously bad

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    only good scene, i agree, was yoda's.


    And on another note... OMFG... LEIA coming back to the ship from space... its the most hilariously bad thing ive ever seen
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

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  3. #4283

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    This movie should be called Science Fiction Writers Have No Sense of Scale.

    (Yeah, that's a TV trope)



    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A lot of fans are legitimately complaining that it was Holdo instead of Ackbar who sacrificed themself at the end, it would have given Ackbar a meaningful death.
    No points for guessing what his battle cry would have been...

  4. #4284
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    Admiral Holdo was unnecessary, I like the actor just fine but this should have been Ackbar's role. He could have easily been recast with a different voice actor. I mean Frank Oz died but they still put Yoda in this movie for some reason. Carrie Fisher died and she gets to be in Episode 9.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  5. #4285

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Admiral Holdo was unnecessary, I like the actor just fine but this should have been Ackbar's role. He could have easily been recast with a different voice actor. I mean Frank Oz died but they still put Yoda in this movie for some reason. Carrie Fisher died and she gets to be in Episode 9.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Maybe they wanted to avoid the backlash related to a character called Ackbar pulling a suicide attack

  6. #4286
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    Disney still hasn't taken my screen play. Mon Cala Hu Ackbar - A Star Wars Story.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  7. #4287

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    Just watched today. didn't liked it. Even less then the force awakens.

    No sense of Storytelling at all. Such lack of vision, and wasted characters and opportunities, hell even the humor, was just not humorous at all.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    General hugs.. really???!


    I wonder where are the force awakens fanboys now, that used to say episode 8 will expand and explain it all, and complete it better.... Especially on the Rey character....

    Well it didn't. Episode 8 would make the trilogy or break, it, and i dare say in my humble opinion, it didn't make it at least., in hindsight, it helped to break it even further.

    I did enjoyed some single scenes here and there, especially...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Yoda scene basically was pretty well done, i was constantly annoyed how the film kept jumping from the island Luke and Rey scenes to the boring eye rolling Fin and Rose scenes.... i did enjoy the Luke scenes for the most part, even though, the character development of him and Rey had no conductive flow, at all up to the very end...


    Meh... getting tired of Star wars as well.... ( next is an Han Solo movie.... really not feeling it...)


    Shame. I did enjoyed Rogue one enough, even with its flaws, it had a story there. In last Jedi the story is all over the place, and the premise continues to be vague in this trilogy , and thus wasted.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; December 18, 2017 at 02:39 PM.

  8. #4288
    Pĺsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Just saw it. Wasent all that good really, amazing visuals to be sure but the story is all over the place. Rogue One was miles better.

    Although the bold move cotton twist might be the saving grace of this triology. Im still kind of interested in Kylo and Rey. Its mostly everything else that is not working out. Except Poe who is awesome.

  9. #4289
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    Han Solo... please no, anything but that.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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    Han solo is gonna be a dud. Its a film nobody want.

    Also the whole concept of "space" is completely ignored in this film. Like those frikkin bombers acting like WW2 planes, how about they just angle the drop a bit, the bombs would still head straight from the launch bay since there is no actual gravity, Leia surviving in space and then they just open the door and let her in. the blasts from the star destroyers were curving for some reason like they were lobbing the shots, which should be impossible even if they had a goddamned mortar. And that strong woman character had to stay behind and steer the ship NO YOU FRIKKIN DONT you are traveling in a straight line and you are in space. You dont have to stay behind and steer.
    Last edited by Pĺsan; December 19, 2017 at 02:02 AM.

  11. #4291

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    It was in sum an OK movie. Parts of it were excellent, parts of it were horrible.

    I quite liked the Rey and Luke scenes. In my opinion Rey is the most interesting character introduced in episode VII and VIII, and I liked the way Luke died. He proved he was a kick-ass Jedi master, but not in a prequelly-way. Like he did not make a bunch of backflips and such, he simply commanded the force like a boss.

    I also liked the theme of the movie - everyone fails at times - even Star Wars heroes, and it is better to accept it (than it is to isolate yourself on some forgotten rock far away from everything).

    What I did not like was the Finn and Rose stuff. The casino scenes were pointless. The stuff about war-profiting should also have been done a bit more subtle. I don't like being treated as a retard by a movie.

    The opening scene where Poe makes fun of General Hux was also was over-the-top, but most of the other gags were good.

    Snoke's death was also stupid I felt. He's proven himself to be a strong force user - and he doesn't notice that assasination attempt? The . But it might also have been a necesarry thing to happen in order to give the Rebels a shot. Chaos is a ladder after all.

    Speaking of the Rebels. When did they become Rebels? Their fall from a Galactic Republic to basically being a group with three ships at their disposal was a bit abrupt for my taste. Personally, I believe telling the story of how that happened could have been a more interesting plot than the "oh we have to run away from the First Order and we're running out of fuel" plot.

    The plot is in my opinion perhaps the poorest part of the movie. Running away? Fair enough that they have to run, but building an entire movie around that event? Poor choice in my opinion.

    Also: hyperspace ramming? Really? Why didn't they just ram Home One​ into the Death Star? Allahu Ackbar indeed!

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  12. #4292
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    Speaking of the Rebels. When did they become Rebels? Their fall from a Galactic Republic to basically being a group with three ships at their disposal was a bit abrupt for my taste. Personally, I believe telling the story of how that happened could have been a more interesting plot than the "oh we have to run away from the First Order and we're running out of fuel" plot.


    The "Resistance" is a separate entity to the Republic, essential a small split of faction lead by Leia to compete with the New Order.

    Its a shame, would've rather seen a proper Republic vs a New/Old Threat for the New Trilogy, rather then them being Incompetent and getting destroyed in the First Movie.

  13. #4293

    Default Re: 'Star Wars' discussions

    And that strong woman character had to stay behind and steer the ship NO YOU FRIKKIN DONT you are traveling in a straight line and you are in space. You dont have to stay behind and steer.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "Also: hyperspace ramming? Really? Why didn't they just ram Home One​ into the Death Star? Allahu Ackbar indeed!"


    Also she had to do it.... because a Droid couldn't do it....

    ( i like the actress btw... but.. yeah!!! another waste of a character)
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; December 19, 2017 at 02:46 PM.

  14. #4294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    This movie is literally Episode 5. this movie!

    Still has issues with pacing that they need to give us a new scene every goddamn minute. There are pretty much no powerful scenes, the whole damn thing is vacuous. None of the plot points are even close to resolved. Opening sequence is goddamn ridiculous (and a rip off from Episode 5). General Hux was turned into the Jar Jar Binks of this movie. None of the characters seem any different... especially the annoying child Kylo Ren.

    Star Wars is dead.
    No it is not. It's condensed SW5 with large chunks of SW6. I can't say it's a bad movie, but I can't say I loved it either.

    MY TAKE ON IT:

    Good things:
    - visuals
    - the least plot holes in any of the 8 Star war movies (it did have plot holes, but nothing like the stupidity of 300 teddy bears with sticks defeating battalions of well equipped soldiers backed by huge death machines)
    - Even while they borrowed heavily from SW5 and SW6 they did in a creative and intuitive way
    - Snoke is much much better than Palpantine
    - Snoke chooses incompetent lieutenants because of reasons I won't say for spoilers. They are not the right reasons, but he knows his top commanders are deeply flawed and he has his reasons for keeping them regardless
    - We see the Luke displaying some new force powers
    - Some characters are really believable and make absolute sense
    - People make mistakes all the time and we're shown that having guts and a rebellious attitude can lead to disaster and\or stupid mistakes.
    - There are no infallible or invincible heroes.
    - Rey's performance and to a degree Fin's and Poe's.
    - Fin's and Rose's story arc (similar to the Cloud city)




    The bad:
    - Lacked the Star Wars "feel". People are not invincible. People are not infallible.
    Don't go in expecting a heroic high-action adventure where 2-3 super-human heroes take down countless enemies and save the day. While that may be at times silly (I am looking at you Ewoks) ... it was the star wars theme.
    - While I said it in the good things too: People that act on impulse heroically... more often than not end up making huge mistakes.
    - Kylo Ren acts like a spoiled brat throwing tantrums.
    - The Nazi-guy (forget his name) is a caricature.
    - way too much "get done with the old!" (while rehashing large parts of it).
    - While it does it in a better way than SW VII, it does copy big chunks of SW V and SW VI.
    - Some good guys are acting really bizarre and I don't mean just the one character everyone talks about
    - Ship shields, sub-light-speed space travel, Hyperspace, turbolasers don't seem to work like they did in the past 7 movies. Some of it is explained (Hyperspace tracking but not other changes on hyperspace travel). Some is not.
    - I will say it again: Turbolasers and space are wonky; Seriously? Turbolaser bolts lose their power the further they travel in vacuum??? You can survive without a suit for several seconds on empty space? A ship traveling in a straight line in space ... needs to burn fuel or it slows down?


    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "Also: hyperspace ramming? Really? Why didn't they just ram Home One​ into the Death Star? "
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    That irked me to. It was done in Rebels before, but in order to do it, the rebels meddled with the safety catches and all that prevent that crap from happening.

    Last edited by alhoon; December 19, 2017 at 04:37 PM.
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  15. #4295
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    Ryan Johnson's goal was clearly to take Episode 5 and then subvert it. So that it is not exactly Episode 5 is just a trick to make people think that it is not Episode 5 rehashed. In fact one of the earliest leaks which I posted, said that exact thing.

    I think that a lot of what you consider good is actually subjective. For example why is Finn and Rose a good thing? I thought they were the most pointless part of the movie (and boring). Nor do I see how it has the least plot holes of all the movies. I don't think that Snoke is better than Palpatine either, not only is he a Palpatine clone (thematically I mean) but because he has more screen time they have more time to explain what he is about. However, given that he has more screen time then it is insufficient that they didn't actually go into what he was about at all really. So Snoke is just a vacuous character, he is in both of these movies for no reason I guess.

    I feel like I was Rickrolled by this entire movie. Nothing in it made sense.

    It didn't even connect to TFA. In fact you could probably argue that this was Episode 7 and that TFA was a prequel or something. Because you could watch this movie on its own and it would still make about as much sense.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; December 19, 2017 at 04:51 PM.

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  16. #4296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Ryan Johnson's goal was clearly to take Episode 5 and then subvert it. So that it is not exactly Episode 5 is just a trick to make people think that it is not Episode 5 rehashed.
    Hmmm... I would agree to a great degree. I just find it a better rehash than Episode VII.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    I think that a lot of what you consider good is actually subjective.
    Completely. As I said, that was my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    For example why is Finn and Rose a good thing? I thought they were the most pointless part of the movie (and boring). Nor do I see how it has the least plot holes of all the movies. I don't think that Snoke is better than Palpatine either, not only is he a Palpatine clone (thematically I mean) but because he has more screen time they have more time to explain what he is about. However, given that he has more screen time then it is insufficient that they didn't actually go into what he was about at all really. So Snoke is just a vacuous character, he is in both of these movies for no reason I guess.
    Finn and Rose:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    It was a very interesting half-take on Cloud city plot!
    It was fun. Except of the part of a pack of big and fast goats trashing a city, it was believable. And even the silliness of big goats trashing a city as they escape was not too over the top to turn me off.
    I liked very much Rose's sacrifice, an impulsive act to save her loved one ... and leave him stranded among more AT-ATs than the resistance had fighters and more Tie fighters than the resistance had pistols. I mean, what exactly did you think would happen girl?! (Plot hole: Finn made it with the girl somehow, crossing a couple kilometers in front of those war machines). I loved the humanity of the scene. The stupid, kinda selfish, completely pointless act of it that many humans would do.

    And of course... they brave plan damn fails which makes the whole thing so much more worthy in my eyes.


    Snoke \ Palpantine (I refer to SW VI scene):
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Much funnier than Palpantine. Come on, he even had Rey's lightsaber smack her on the back of the head to remind her that she's a little piece of poop. Not overly acted parts too. A person that oozed overconfidence and power with every word and act, with every wannabe-Jedi-snapping move of the finger. Sure, it was his downfall. But he was very powerful.
    His insecurities made him to have flawed commanders which is believable. His insecurities led him to try and humiliate Rey instead of manipulate or at least read-mind\dispose. His insecurities also led him to berate and undermine the loyalty of his people which is also believable.
    I.e. Snoke, aside of funny and badass, was not a genious, he was a bad manipulator. Someone that relied on his ability to defend himself; from plots by reading minds, from attacks by being far more powerful than those attacking him. NOT on his ability to be inspiring, cunning and be 3 steps ahead of the opposition. In the end he was just an insecure bully that used the Force instead of big muscles.

    By SW VI, Palpantine also was a vacuous "Evil wizard" type of character. We didn't know why he wanted to eradicate the Jedi. How he became emperor. Nothing. He was a creepy dude that shot lighting and controlled an empire.


    Plot holes compared to other movies: There seems to have been an effort to avoid some of the overly mind-bogging plot holes. There are plot holes, but for 95% of the things in the movie you can at least find a feeble argument for why these things happened. There are no "and how 300 teddy bears with sticks defeated countless soldiers with blasters?" or "How exactly a galactic empire with quadrillions of people has less big ships than the USA has aircarriers?" or "Why were there 20-30 Tie fighters defending a planet-sized base instead of say 5000?" or "How the #### a janitor of planet-sized base knew the exact function of the shields and their locations? Have he swept the whole damn planet?" or "How Leia didn't sense her father in Cloud City?" or "how fast are those starships that when a base the size of a small moon explodes, they have the time to escape?" or "why the #### didn't Kenobi change his last name while watching Luke?"
    That kind of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    It didn't even connect to TFA. In fact you could probably argue that this was Episode 7 and that TFA was a prequel or something. Because you could watch this movie on its own and it would still make about as much sense.
    Frankly, I would dare say it makes more sense if you haven't watched Episode 7 but have heard a friend's 3 minute synopsis of it. Episode 8 makes a poor job continuing the story of 7. It is clear IMO it takes it down a very different path than what people behind SW VII envisioned as possible.
    Last edited by alhoon; December 19, 2017 at 05:28 PM.
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  17. #4297
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    Okay but what I mean is that what is good and bad is very debatable. I have seen a few reviews now and none of them really agree on much other than that the movie was bad. So what was good and what was bad about these movies is pretty much anyone's guess.

    With Palpatine it was more that they were not going for anything more than he is this creepy mysterious guy in a cloak who also happens to be Vader's boss and a good deal stronger than him. He was basically just the last boss and they weren't planning on explaining anything else. To be fair Emperor Palpatine was supposed to be the villain for the next trilogy as they had planned early on. Evidently George just wanted to be done with the whole thing so that he was killed off in Episode 6. It is true that many people thought it was wasted potential and a decent enough character to keep coming back in spin off books and comics. Snoke however, it just seems that from the start they had something big planned for him. What will happen in Episode 9 is anyone's guess though.

    Fair enough I agree with that last bit. Why Star Wars 8 is so different from Star Wars 7 is hard to discern. Maybe JJ sucks at setting these things up, maybe Ryan Johnson just wanted to do his own thing. Hard to know without any behind the scenes knowledge.
    But this felt like Twist Wars: Subverting Expectations. They are trying so hard to seem unpredictable and new that they have a twist like every 2 seconds, even when it didn't make sense. So when they take the Empire Strikes Back formula, they then try to subvert but only because you expect it to be like Empire Strikes Back.

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    Snoke - Palpantine:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    JJ had plans for Snoke (and probably wanted something significant for Rey's parentage). RJ didn't give a crap and did his own thing clearly moving away from what JJ had in mind.

    PS. Palpantine wasn't stronger than Vader, or at least not much stronger. He had the ability to throw lighting and he had the good sense to not belittle his tough right-hand man when in the same room with him and an enemy.


    Here is my controversial list of SW movies from favorite to worse.

    SW V > SW IV > SW III > Rogue One > SW II > SW VIII > SW VI > SW VII> SW I
    Last edited by alhoon; December 20, 2017 at 04:29 AM.
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    Why is Episode I at the bottom? Even if you don't like it it's wayyyyyyyyy better than 2. And so is VI.

    Mine is 5 > 6 > 1 > 4 > R1 > 3 > 7 > 2 > 8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    Why is Episode I at the bottom? Even if you don't like it it's wayyyyyyyyy better than 2. And so is VI.
    I disagree. Episode 1 was kiddie movie, not Young adult. Target audience seemed to be 10-11 years olds, not 15-18 years olds. On the contrary, on Episode 2 we saw Coruscant and a bunch of pretty places, with awesome CGI. As a note despite being in the minority I think that CGI are what makes the prequels stand head and shoulders above the Sequels aesthetically.
    Episode VI has some redeeming moments but it is generally one of the "bad" Star Wars movies IMO. I can't get ahead of the "300 Teddy bears with sticks defeat thousands of troopers and dozens of warmachines." I also found the opening with Luke killing people with the force and then the Sarlac pit fight subpar. I also was annoyed with how few spaceships the Imperial fleet had.
    All in all, SW VI seemed rushed. Lucas had decided that the good guys would win, so they did but he forgot to give us a good excuse of how it happened. A small spaceship hitting Executor's bridge and the whole thing collapsing in the Death star?! The ragtag bands of the Rebellion having a chance against the Imperial fleet while the Deathstar was taking out Calamari Cruiser after Cruiser? Teddy bears with sticks defeating 15-m tall walkers?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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