Logical religion ?? Should have made a poll on the most illogicall. Plus atheism is it religion ? And that is not logical either. Perhaps a poll religion vs philosophy ?!
Christianity (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant)
Hinduisim (Gaudiya Vaishnavisim, Vaishnavisim, Saivism, Shaktism, Smartism or Vedic Sanatan Dharma)
Buddhisim (Mahayana, Theravāda or Vajrayāna)
Jainisim ( Digambara and or others)
Islam (Sunni or Shiah)
Sikhism
Judaism
Bahaism
Confucianism
Shintoism
Atheisim, (Science prevails)
Asthetic, (Science may prevail, but only god can reveal the full truth)
Greek Mythology
Roman Mythology
Egyptian Mythology
Logical religion ?? Should have made a poll on the most illogicall. Plus atheism is it religion ? And that is not logical either. Perhaps a poll religion vs philosophy ?!
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Jesuit Catholicism
I will expand upon it later when Im not half asleep
Low speed, High Drag
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- haven't been on the list but would make sense ... somehow.
Last edited by DaniCatBurger; August 06, 2014 at 03:12 AM.
שנאה היא לא ערך, גזענות היא לא הדרך
KleenClothMaurya,
Slavery has been around since the fall of man and is an effect of that fall in that man wars with other men and takes prisoners many of whom became slaves. God never condoned it and where it happened with His people, strict instructions on their treatment had to be adhered to. That was how the land was until the arrival of Jesus Christ on this planet and anyone that was born again thereafter did not indulge in slavery. Yes, there were people who claimed the name only and did indulge but I would doubt very much that any would find a place in heaven.
Now, concerning the word of God, the most reliable texts, the Textus Receptus, is what the KJV is bound to. When Jesus said that not one jot or tittle could or would be removed from His word, the Old Testament of the Jews, and, the New Testament wherein His words were recorded by the disciples that became quite true when the KJV was published and under the protection of Him whose word it is, it became the greatest published work of any kind any where in the world in which we live.
Of course since it there has been some reinterpretations containing great error, the first of which I speak is that it takes from God and gives to man the very act of salvation. They rip out the very core of salvation wherein God does everything and they take that away from Him to place certain essential aspects into the hands of men. What it means is that there are many many people who think they are saved when in fact they are not. Religious yes, but of God, no.
In the end all their belief stands on works done by themselves believing that trying to appease God by good works alone is enough to satisfy Him. Take a hint from the Jews' law that says if a man lives under it and from birth does every aspect of it until he dies, he might live in heaven. There is no mercy there. It is quite plain. Man does not have the nature to sustain good all his life and so cannot enter heaven with his sin. No-one can alter that, no, not even Mohammed who asks you to seek mercy. Sin is only defeated by blood but a sinners blood does not do that. The blood must be pure if sin is to be destroyed. Jesus being God with us had that blood. He is the only mercy man will get. That's the only way man's nature can be changed that he might enter heaven.
Books get corrupted, it happens, my scripture will get corrupted, your's will, but this is all due to the work of man, this is also a reason why we need Gurus (Spiritual masters) because a spiritual master is the scriptures personified and a delegation of god. We need a spiritual master to get over hellish ignorance and accept an interpretation that will lead us to the supreme, this is why, choosing the correct spiritual master is important and not a bogus spiritual master.
I couldn't help myself, i laughed, please forgive me Ethos Moros et Monisthitca community But, really is it that big! Srimad Bhagavatam has 17,900 pages! And that's just one part, there's is the Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas! (It's not full of contradictions, but just explains lots)no wonder the Bible is Huge..
I'm pretty fascinated by the sacrificial aspect of Christianity (I was raised a catholic, but am now atheist).
You say Sin is only defeated by blood, and only pure blood. Does blood have magical properties? Why does god need a sacrifice? Why do men? What is the appeal in a religion which otherwise seems to preach about a loving god of blood sacrifice?
I understand the aspect of human sacrifice among religions in ancient societies, but why do modern people still put any weight into there being something holy, divine, or even good in any sense about blood sacrifices. Do we Christians think we are better than the Punic worshipers or the Aztecs because we got one really good blood sacrifice to appease our bloodthirsty god and don't have to sacrifice virgins or other innocents on a regular basis. But clearly a big part of the faith still revolves around the belief in the magic properties of the human sacrifice.
If it was just about the selflessness of Jesus, or him showing us the error of our ways that would be one thing. But as the devout Christians in this thread keep echoing it is not viewed in that way at all, but as a holy pre-ordained sacrifice. There is no lesson, "they know not what they do" means nothing.. I mean in a sense if the Roman and/or Jewish leadership of the time hadn't crucified Jesus would he have eventually had the disciples kill him?
If his death was so necessary and good was his goal (without intervention from the authorities) to eventually be sacrificed like a lamb in the temple? This is the aspect of the worship of Jesus that I am most conflicted about perhaps and for me the whole holy blood sacrifice aspect just seems ill fitted to his philosophy (though again not the ancient setting I suppose where this kind of thing was the norm).
He certainly (at least retroactively as written by the disciples) wasn't going to be the Messiah to save any actual people in Israel, his main purpose was as a sacrifice (and he had to have known the suffering of early Christians that would follow). It just doesn't paint him in a very positive light, and in modern times you see similar figures leading all sorts of cults that celebrate death and human sacrifice of believers/the innocent.
I'm sorry but I just don't see how shedding innocent blood makes god happy. It seems entirely barbaric, and makes god seem like a sadistic monster.
Last edited by tarvu; August 09, 2014 at 01:38 AM.
" You say Sin is only defeated by blood, and only pure blood. Does blood have magical properties? Why does god need a sacrifice? Why do men? What is the appeal in a religion which otherwise seems to preach about a loving god of blood sacrifice? "
tarvu,
It is written that life, life, is in the blood so when God breathed life into Adam, He set his blood in motion throughout his body. It is also written that when we die our blood returns to the earth from which Adam was made, one way or another. But when Adam fell from grace so too fell the quality in his blood. It would take another, the " seed " promised by God, to do what no other blood could do, that is return fallen men and women to God.
That is why all these blood rituals in any religion all reflect what God had to say at the fall of man. Each one has its own interpretation of that but with the exception of what God actually meant each one in its turn fails because it puts the accent onto man and not God. Man thinks he knows best. So does the blood of Jesus Christ have magical properties? More than that it has supernatural properties because He is the second Person of the Trinity. He is God and the blood He had when on earth, no other had, it was so pure.
And, as we are dealing with the Spiritual here, it was Spiritual things that took place on the cross. All the bad blood that He took upon Himself on that cross, He cleansed it, taking away its fallen properties, past, present and future, so that those He died for, both God and His Law could find nothing more to condemn. In fact God declared that He never remembered them as being sinners. How wonderful is that?
" I understand the aspect of human sacrifice among religions in ancient societies, but why do modern people still put any weight into there being something holy, divine, or even good in any sense about blood sacrifices. Do we Christians think we are better than the Punic worshipers or the Aztecs because we got one really good blood sacrifice to appease our bloodthirsty god and don't have to sacrifice virgins or other innocents on a regular basis. But clearly a big part of the faith still revolves around the belief in the magic properties of the human sacrifice."
Not quite. Our devotion revolves around the one sacrifice made on our behalf that covered all time. We don't and certainly shouldn't keep crucifying Christ over and over again. It's a nonsense to do so because if He didn't save me at the cross then, then His blood can't help me now. When He cried out, " It is finished." it had to be or else nothing was accomplished and man is still lost. When Christians take communion it is to remember what He did for us until He comes again. In other words just as it is also written, " There is no more sacrifice for sin."
" If it was just about the selflessness of Jesus, or him showing us the error of our ways that would be one thing. But as the devout Christians in this thread keep echoing it is not viewed in that way at all, but as a holy pre-ordained sacrifice. There is no lesson, "they know not what they do" means nothing.. I mean in a sense if the Roman and/or Jewish leadership of the time hadn't crucified Jesus would he have eventually had the disciples kill him?"
Yes it was pre-ordained because it is written that He is the Lamb of God sacrificed before the worlds were made. If we read the Revelation of Jesus Christ, we find that all has already transpired in heavenly time, it's just that in our time we have still to go through what will happen in our time. So as it is written that, " They know not what they are doing," is quite correct because they didn't see the Spiritual or God in what they did. To the Jews, He was a threat to their traditions and to the Romans, put under pressure, He was just another Jew that had to be dealt with. Clearly had they known who He was, would they have done it?
" If his death was so necessary and good was his goal (without intervention from the authorities) to eventually be sacrificed like a lamb in the temple? This is the aspect of the worship of Jesus that I am most conflicted about perhaps and for me the whole holy blood sacrifice aspect just seems ill fitted to his philosophy (though again not the ancient setting I suppose where this kind of thing was the norm)."
Jesus came into this planet at a time when sacrifices were being practiced all over the world them actually based around His own story and at a time when His church would explode openly because the Roman Empire made that possible. The world didn't know it but God had manipulated these things as a spring board as it were for that. Jesus only did what was required of that time to fulfill the Law so that all legality was satisfied. Today we would never think of human sacrifice but others do and practice it it various ways. By faith He was our sacrifice and by faith we remember it but we are never expected to practice it anymore. That's the difference.
" He certainly (at least retroactively as written by the disciples) wasn't going to be the Messiah to save any actual people in Israel, his main purpose was as a sacrifice (and he had to have known the suffering of early Christians that would follow). It just doesn't paint him in a very positive light, and in modern times you see similar figures leading all sorts of cults that celebrate death and human sacrifice of believers/the innocent."
His first task was to put the average Israelite straight as to the Scriptures they had, they carried, and He did that by converting many of them as any other convert is made. At Pentecost some two or three thousand were converted on that day alone and most if not all were Jews from all across the world. That is why Paul made an effort to preach in the synagogues first before preaching to the Gentiles. But of course most Jews rejected Him and in turn were cut off leaving room on the figurative vine for us Gentiles to be included in the true Israel of God. Yet, in each generation of Jews there will be a remnant that God will save.
" I'm sorry but I just don't see how shedding innocent blood makes god happy. It seems entirely barbaric, and makes god seem like a sadistic monster."
The big question for you then is, who is innocent? Jesus taught that even from conception all male and female persons are bound in sin, made in sin. It is because man does not turn to God that people die and how they die is inconsequential because it is their fault, not God's. He sent a Saviour into the world, why even told of it the very day Adam fell, and still they don't turn to Him. My heart despairs as I see what I do but the thing is that each person shoulders their own position before God and so must give that priority in every case. How do you make a willfully blind person see?
"It is the part of the fool to say, I should not have thought." -Scipio Africanus
"We will either find a way or make one." -Hannibal Barca
" I couldn't help myself, i laughed, please forgive me Ethos Moros et Monisthitca community But, really is it that big! Srimad Bhagavatam has 17,900 pages! And that's just one part, there's is the Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, Upanishads and Puranas! (It's not full of contradictions, but just explains lots) "
KleenClothMaurya,
I didn't mean huge in comparison to some other works but huge in its appeal to people, how? Because no other publication comes anywhere near to the number of Bibles, especially the KJV, that have been published. It's the biggest selling book of all time. What makes it huge is that it is God's finished word to us and could it possibly be that He, himself has made it thus? Of course He did, why? Because He is always in control.
Yeah i guess so
The philosophy and practices of Krishna consciousness are based on the essence of Vedic teachings—establishing a loving relationship with a personal Supreme Being. The terms "Hindu," "Hinduism," and "Hindu dharma" aren't to be found within Vedic literature. Rather, the origin of these terms can be traced to fairly recent history. Hinduism also generally defines the supreme truth as impersonal, and because it commonly includes the worship ofdemigods, it is often believed to be polytheistic. So although Hinduism and Krishna consciousness seem to have some philosophical and cultural similarities, they aren't the same.
Krishna consciousness is also known as sanatana-dharma, the eternal function of the self, which is the standard spiritual culture outlined in the Vedas. Everyone—whatever their nation of origin and whatever religion they may profess—has an eternal relationship with the Supreme Person, and Krishna consciousness is meant to revive that relationship. As such, Krishna consciousness is open to Christians, Muslims, Hindus, or anyone else wanting a better understanding of themselves and their ultimate source.
Surrender is not a lip transaction. Surrender means not only to surrender one's possessions, but to realize that the possessions themselves are false. I am not master of anything! Surrender means giving everything to give up everything to Guru so we may get over lament, hankering and rid ourselves of the unholy connection of so many possessions, so that they may not disturb us by always suggesting, "You are my master," and in this way misleading us.
We should think "Everything belongs to the lord and his delegation (Guru). I am not the master of anything." That sort of knowledge we should imbibe , and that will really help our spiritual progress. This is reality, the beautiful. We have to realize this fact. We want truth, and we want to free ourself from false notions. So, proper diksa, spiritual initiation, imparts the divine knowledge that nothing belongs to us; not only that, everything is part and parcel of the Lord, including ourselves. That is the conception of Diksa: "I belong to Him; Everything belongs to him. I am his willing, happy, loving and surrendered servant, and these objects are of his service"
This is reality, and we are suffering under nonreality in an imaginary world.
We are living in a fool's paradise. We should do away with the fool's paradise and try to enter into real paradise.
When we have a peep into the characteristic of the absolute environment of reality, and even a little regard for the truth, we can no longer relish the paraphernalia of this world as we did previously. Because we have had a real taste of the higher truth, we will have no charm for this material world. We will no longer feel encouragement to meet with the duties that are relating to this world of enjoyment. We will be indifferent.
We know that the connection with the present enjoying mood brings a painful reaction.
We can realize that, but we cannot leave it behind. We cannot cut off the connection completely in the stage of sadhana, spiritual practice.
Still, we have no other alternative. Our affinity for the positive truth should be increased more and more and gradually our affinity for our paraphernalia and obligations will all disappear.
Although repeatedly we may not be successful, still we will be unable to give up the idea. We will attempt again and again to make progress towards the truth, and when we are unsuccessful, our heart will ache to think that we
are repeatedly being defeated by the enemies who are all around us.
But the fire of Krishna consciousness is there, and that fire is not to be quenched. It is a spark of eternal truth. So, the fire will continue, and the day will come when the enemies that are surrounding us will have to retire once and for all. One day we will find that Krishna has gradually captured our whole heart, and the others have retired forever; they are no longer present to trouble us in our mental circle. We will find that those unwanted things were like mushrooms: they came out from our mental soil, and now they have all gone and died. They have all gone away, and Krishna alone is in the heart.
At that time, the heart is only full of Krishna, full of the Krishna conception. Chanting is the only way to realize this, the only way of self realization in this day and age
Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised us to chant 64 rounds of Hari Nama, that is just a provincial saying, what is really all important is the spirit of serivce, bhakti, where the object of your worship is happy, that is devotional love for god. We are not told that Gopis chant on Tulasi beads, yet they have the highest level of service and love for Krishna, we are advised to chant, Simply our prayer should be, My dear Krishna, please remind me to always chant Your Holy Name, please do not put me into forgetfulness. You are sitting within me as Supersoul, so you can put me into forgetfulness or into remembering You. So please do not put me into forgetfulness. Please always remind me to chant, even You send me into the hell, it doesn’t matter, just so long as I can always chant Hare Krishna.
True Surrendering is this that i explain next, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur explains that the prema-ruruksu devotees (those who earnestly strive for ascending up to the region of prema) chant 192 (3 x 64) rounds daily. If one were to chant each round in 7.5 minutes, these 192 rounds would completely fill up with his 24 hours leaving him no time to eat, sleep, earn a livelihood, or even go to the toilet. If one were to speed up his chanting and complete each round within 5 minutes, his chanting would still take 16 hours leaving him only 8 hours daily for sleeping, earning a livelihood, commuting, etc. The point is that for most people this much chanting is not possible.
To develop that Attiude of service, the average man must chant 16 rounds a day, however, if we are a lucky soul, 1 round with correct mood is just as good as 16. Chanting works, whether we believe in it or not, but unlike Karma, the effectes are subtler than any chemical reaction, they are beyond limitations, they affect our subtle body and not the observable gross body, it affects our consiousness and for the good.
That is an answer i gave a friend online, i think you should read it too.
KleenClothMaurya,
On reading your interesting post the one thing that stands out immediately is that even in your religion man has to work his socks off to appease your god. Now one has to ask why? The answer seems to me to be that the levels of attainment are too high for any to reach by their own steam and therefore it will depend once again on the mercy of your god as to what level one reaches if at all. But another question springs up. Why does man have to attain any level to enter this paradise? Could it be that man most certainly does fall short of the glory even of your god?
The thing is that in Jesus Christ, of whom Krishna is loosely based, He settled that score on a hill called Golgotha when His blood washed away anything that would displease God. It means that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish or need to strive ever again to get into the paradise we call heaven. He met every obstacle at the cross and His Father, God, can now say quite confidently that He never knew us to be sinners, unworthy, at all. So, before death, we have the luxury of knowing that nothing can hinder our entrance. So, why would one want to wait until after death what the result of all your works is when one can know well before it?
Through Krishna's mercy one can attain a guru and only through Guru's grace, can one attain Krishna, man does not have to work, all he does is to realize that all this body is not his and that he is the soul. Everything is Krishna's energy. Do you believe Love to be hard? That's it, all our goal is to love god, love Krishna, so much so that we serve him, everything is part and parcel of god, we are meant for him and him only, in return, Krishna accepts us, that way, everyone is happy, but this world is a world of exploitation, we were all once in Vaikuntha, then somehow we forgot how to love god and wanted to become god, so Krishna expands himself into Maha Vishnu, where he creates innumerable amounts of Universe with Innumerable amount of species, we could choose the side of dedication (Krishna's adobe) or the side of exploitation (This world and material universe)
We came here to become kings, but really we become losers.
That's not true, Krishna is described in the Vedas, far, far pre-dating Jesus Christ, what we believe is "True" Christianity (The teachings of Christ) to be indirect Vaisnavisim .i.e. He taught Vaisnava qualities, forgiveness. At the time of death on the cross when Jesus was stabbed in the side with a spear, he uttered, O Lord! Please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.The thing is that in Jesus Christ, of whom Krishna is loosely based
The only religion which I believe comes anywhere near close to logical (religions usually aren't even coherent with themselves let alone the world) is Unitarian Universalism. It acknowledges that it is impossible to gain objective knowledge of supernatural phenomena, and acknowledges that religion is a personal spiritual experience that is different for every brain.
Last edited by Campylobacter jejuni; August 15, 2014 at 12:25 PM.
I think that Faith denies Logic .
Formal Logic is material tool given to primitive minds to count their profits and losses .
Faith has nothing to do with it.
Denial of materialistism by given charity to those who either needs or those Guru ,who wants you to accumulate Sukriti by donating .
One Krishnaite friend explained me about Sukriti accumulation though in Christianity we do more believe in unconditional love to other humans
and thus in charity to weak .
Har du inte levt mitt liv
Vet du ingenting
Laglöst Land
" That's not true, Krishna is described in the Vedas, far, far pre-dating Jesus Christ, what we believe is "True" Christianity (The teachings of Christ) to be indirect Vaisnavisim .i.e. He taught Vaisnava qualities, forgiveness. At the time of death on the cross when Jesus was stabbed in the side with a spear, he uttered, O Lord! Please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
KleenClothMaurya,
Well, if Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things how can your Krishna precede Him, especially since Hindhuism only came into being after the Flood if one reads The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, backed up by the opinion of linguistic experts of their day. Hindhuism is in fact an offshoot of the Babylonian Mysteries. Over one thousand years had transpired with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the " seed " promised by God in the garden, being carried by certain men like Abel, Enoch etc before the Deluge and long before God dispersed them of Babel. Therefore nothing at all preceeds Christ.
Atheisim isn't a religion, but it's certainly the most logical choice of those presented. Also i'm deeply offended that Nordic Mythology isn't included.
Last edited by Holger Danske; August 16, 2014 at 04:55 AM.
It may be called a belief (though IMHO not a religion) that science will answer all questions, but there's no room for revelations in science:
But I suppose if you wanted to "test" a revelation scientifically, you'd have to look at their power to explain/predict what could not have been explained/predicted with knowledge available at the time. Good luck with that......
"Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -
Looking at some of the responses I think people are confusing the meaning of logical with cool or emotionally appealing.