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Thread: Eternal Crusade

  1. #81
    Karnil Vark Khaitan's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Thats the main issue, they can't kill of anything and they are still living in the end days, wait that was two things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Meh, they advanced the fluff a bit with the new DE book, but it was clearly written by some shitbird Space Marine writer, and old stories are rewritten to show the Space Marines in a much more favorable light.

    They added in a large portal in the heart of Commoragh that leads straight into the Eye of Terror that's sealed with runes and a massive structure called Khaine's Gate. It's been rumbling for the past few hundred years and since whoever the wrote the new book doesn't know what a millennium is, the timeline jumps from the year 998.41 to 989999.M41- not kidding. Anyways the Incubi that have been stationed to guard the door have begun going mad and carving "Let us in" to their flesh, and Mandrakes have been flocking to the gate.
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  3. #83
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    You should not read the Tyranid Codex. Its mostly the same stories, or similar stories, from previous codex's. Thank god I got the ebook version.

    To be fair, I don't think the writers can make it any different (going to each planet > eating everything) when the rest of the lore universe is told to move at the speed of tectonic plates.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Border Patrol View Post
    Meh, they advanced the fluff a bit with the new DE book, but it was clearly written by some shitbird Space Marine writer, and old stories are rewritten to show the Space Marines in a much more favorable light.

    They added in a large portal in the heart of Commoragh that leads straight into the Eye of Terror that's sealed with runes and a massive structure called Khaine's Gate. It's been rumbling for the past few hundred years and since whoever the wrote the new book doesn't know what a millennium is, the timeline jumps from the year 998.41 to 989999.M41- not kidding. Anyways the Incubi that have been stationed to guard the door have begun going mad and carving "Let us in" to their flesh, and Mandrakes have been flocking to the gate.
    Honestly it sounds awesome, but raise's this question:

    "WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU OPEN A GATEWAY TO SOMETHING YOU ARE TRYING TO ESCAPE FROM!"

    Do they have gas leaks in the webways?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riskymonk View Post
    yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Sorry, by 'they' I meant GW. As in it's now always been there. I think they mean to tie DE to the 13th Black Crusade. With the way they've been treated wouldn't be surprised if they were killed off simply to show how awesome the Imperium is for surviving.
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  6. #86
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Border Patrol View Post
    Meh, they advanced the fluff a bit with the new DE book, but it was clearly written by some shitbird Space Marine writer, and old stories are rewritten to show the Space Marines in a much more favorable light.
    You weren't expecting that? It is pretty much standard GW/BL modus operandi to the other factions over to make the Space Marines look awesome. Or in the case of the Eldar, them over just because. Remember when they killed off Eldrad Ulthran in the most ridiculous way possible despite the Eldar stomping in the Eye of Terror global campaign?
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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    We all know the Eldar like being f.....!


  8. #88
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Of course, what you'd be saying if your favourite faction was the go-to punching bag would be a different story, wouldn't it?
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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    In my opinion you should see the matter in this way: the great part of the people buying GW's stuff loves SM or Chaos so ... the Eldar are there as 'Enfants Perdus', then after the Nids came, the Eldar are really too light for 40k, I don't know if they still have any meaning as faction. Skip to Necrons, they are cool and they have many unexpected fans.

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    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    In my opinion you should see the matter in this way: the great part of the people buying GW's stuff loves SM or Chaos so ... the Eldar are there as 'Enfants Perdus', then after the Nids came, the Eldar are really too light for 40k, I don't know if they still have any meaning as faction. Skip to Necrons, they are cool and they have many unexpected fans.
    So, you're saying for me to abandon a faction which I believe has interesting lore and characters for a faction which I think does not?
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  11. #91
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    No, wait, you have said that Eldar are treated as a punching bag, so I proposed you a solution but there are many others, when you choose an army many are the factors: lore but also colors and painting, money (how many miniatures do you need to get a working army suited to your tastes?), if the army is suited to your gameplay, its vehicles, your friends (that is, the guys with whom you're playing habitually), the books you've read, your dreams ... and so on.
    I was just saying that money is the leading criteria for GW, in fact SMs are the most loved army, and this is normal, as normal is the fact that GW has a special care about them. Look at their choices about fluff and SM chapters: my Iron Hands have been 'normalized' because people love Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Black Templars, so, GW adapted the fluff and the Codex to the market! Can we do anything against market? No, we can't!

  12. #92
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    No, wait, you have said that Eldar are treated as a punching bag, so I proposed you a solution but there are many others, when you choose an army many are the factors: lore but also colors and painting, money (how many miniatures do you need to get a working army suited to your tastes?), if the army is suited to your gameplay, its vehicles, your friends (that is, the guys with whom you're playing habitually), the books you've read, your dreams ... and so on.
    I don't play the tabletop. Too expensive.
    I was just saying that money is the leading criteria for GW, in fact SMs are the most loved army, and this is normal, as normal is the fact that GW has a special care about them.
    That doesn't mean their approach to everything else should be varying degrees of 'don't care'. Because one army is popular, they shouldn't be ignoring everything else in favor of that one thing. The over-saturation of Space Marines is definitely a problem, and doing a disservice to a compelling and interesting setting. I get them trying to appeal to the fans of the most popular faction, but when you've reached the point that 99% of what you've made is about that single popular faction, you're doing something wrong.
    Look at their choices about fluff and SM chapters: my Iron Hands have been 'normalized' because people love Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Black Templars, so, GW adapted the fluff and the Codex to the market! Can we do anything against market? No, we can't!
    You can. You can always complain, and if you phrase things well enough, people will agree with you. I can whine on all day about them wasting their awesome setting, and it is a better way of dealing with things that annoy me than stewing in silence.
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  14. #94
    Sanguinary Guardian's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Eldar are actually quite relevant. Alongside the Orks and the Genestealers, they are arguably the oldest and most recurring xenos in the game. They were there since Day 1. Right now, they are one of the most powerful factions on the tabletop, if not the most powerful. The fluff tries its best to show that they are a dying race and showing defeats achieves that. Even the loss of one Eldar life is an unspeakable disaster. You can bet your arse they are going to capitalize on that and show them being kicked in the butt. They shouldn't even be able to mobilize for large scale warfare, with the possible exception of Ulthwe.
    Eldar fans should be thankful, however, that their fluff hasn't undergone drastic changes like the Iron Hands, Black Templars, Grey Knights or those Newcrons. They should also be thankful that they are not obscured like a certain Imperial faction that still awaits its long overdue plastic miniatures.
    And hell, Chaos is even more of a punchbag, lorewise and ruleswise and has been so for two consecutive codecii. At least enjoy your cool rules.
    Even the far more popular Blood Angels are oftentimes punching bags and we do not complain.




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    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinary Guardian View Post
    The fluff tries its best to show that they are a dying race and showing defeats achieves that. Even the loss of one Eldar life is an unspeakable disaster. You can bet your arse they are going to capitalize on that and show them being kicked in the butt. They shouldn't even be able to mobilize for large scale warfare, with the possible exception of Ulthwe.
    It is a problem when they lose pretty much every single engagement in the fluff. A race can't both be dying and losing all the time. By the way, Ulthwé isn't the expansionist Craftworld, that is Biel-tan's thing. Ulthwé's thing are Seers.
    Eldar fans should be thankful, however, that their fluff hasn't undergone drastic changes like the Iron Hands, Black Templars, Grey Knights or those Newcrons.
    Yes, instead their fluff is pretty much either ignored or not added to. Truly, a much better alternative.

    They should also be thankful that they are not obscured like a certain Imperial faction that still awaits its long overdue plastic miniatures.
    The best said about what GW is doing with the SoB (Or isn't doing, more accurately), the better.

    And hell, Chaos is even more of a punchbag, lorewise and ruleswise and has been so for two consecutive codecii.
    Chaos players didn't have to suffer stupid like say; Abaddon being defeated by a dude with what is essentially shiny power-fists, and has at least some attention given to it, due to being the most easily identifiable evil faction.

    Even the far more popular Blood Angels are oftentimes punching bags and we do not complain.
    When the homeworld of a Blood Angels successor chapter is defeated by a single Tyranid, or a single CSM warband without issue, the Sanguinor becomes 40k's Worf, the Blood Angels receive no novels from their perspective bar the occasional thrown bone to the fans, and have their Codex merged into Vanilla Marines you'll know what it is like for Eldar fans.
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  16. #96
    Sanguinary Guardian's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    It is a problem when they lose pretty much every single engagement in the fluff. A race can't both be dying and losing all the time. By the way, Ulthwé isn't the expansionist Craftworld, that is Biel-tan's thing. Ulthwé's thing are Seers.
    Ulthwe is ready for total war, because of their Guardians. IIRC they were the best all around due to their close proximity to the Eye of Terror.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Yes, instead their fluff is pretty much either ignored or not added to. Truly, a much better alternative.
    Yes, a much better alternative. 40K is a setting, not a story, doesn't actually need new fluff, we have tons of snippets waiting to be explored. If the Eldar suffered the Iron Hands treatment, I assure you, you'd hate it, no matter the fluff or victories they gave you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    The best said about what GW is doing with the SoB (Or isn't doing, more accurately), the better.
    They need book, they need fluff, they need models, they need everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Chaos players didn't have to suffer stupid like say; Abaddon being defeated by a dude with what is essentially shiny power-fists, and has at least some attention given to it, due to being the most easily identifiable evil faction.
    Abaddon was and still is, for many fans, Failbaddon. Only AD-B can save him. Chaos players have suffered the retcon of their finest hour as a community and by that, I mean the 13th Black Crusade World Campaign, where they absolutely trashed the Imperials. That was later retconed as the "Imperials have total control of the Void, but Chaos has most of Cadia's surface" and later retconed completely out of existence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    When the homeworld of a Blood Angels successor chapter is defeated by a single Tyranid, or a single CSM warband without issue, the Sanguinor becomes 40k's Worf, the Blood Angels receive no novels from their perspective bar the occasional thrown bone to the fans, and have their Codex merged into Vanilla Marines you'll know what it is like for Eldar fans.
    That's happened, they are called Lamenters, they get curbstomped every time and that's their fluff. Sanguinor is pretty stupid and I don't mind him gone and the Blood Angels have received absolutely zero good novels. You have Path of the Eldar series, which is good, or so I hear, you regularly play cool supporting roles or even main antagonists in other novels and you have appeared in every game of 40Κ, barring Space Marine and Fire Warrior. That's some pretty mighty list. Blood Angels have Space Hulk and Eternal Crusade and the last semi-cool role they played in a novel was when they were butchered by Talos and co in Soul Hunter. Even their HH book was mediocre and unremarkable.
    As for the Codex being folded into Vanilla, that's what Templars felt and that's what Chaos feels in their last two 'dexes.
    Last edited by Sanguinary Guardian; November 03, 2014 at 07:21 PM.




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  17. #97
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinary Guardian View Post
    Ulthwe is ready for total war, because of their Guardians. IIRC they were the best all around due to their close proximity to the Eye of Terror.
    Ulthwé is the Craftworld that interferes in the businesses of others most often due to their Seers and the Black Guardians are the best trained ones due to being near the Eye of Terror. But Biel-tan is the expansionist one that wants to revive the Eldar Empire and has a higher birth-rate. Iyanden was the largest one before the Tyranids attacked, but suffered horrific casualties there.


    Yes, a much better alternative. 40K is a setting, not a story, doesn't actually need new fluff, we have tons of snippets waiting to be explored. If the Eldar suffered the Iron Hands treatment, I assure you, you'd hate it, no matter the fluff or victories they gave
    you.
    Why, is it that hard to have both good fluff and a dignified treatment?

    They need book, they need fluff, they need models, they need everything.
    Of course they do. The Sisters of Battle are much more interesting than the Spess Mehreens anyway.

    Abaddon was and still is, for many fans, Failbaddon. Only AD-B can save him.
    I'm not sure if he can. Going against fan consensus is a hard road to take.

    Chaos players have suffered the retcon of their finest hour as a community and by that, I mean the 13th Black Crusade World Campaign, where they absolutely trashed the Imperials. That was later retconed as the "Imperials have total control of the Void, but Chaos has most of Cadia's surface" and later retconed completely out of existence.
    In said campaign, the Eldar stomped and what did their community get? One of their special characters killed off in a completely ridiculous fashion. And not to mention that the Order factions did in fact win in the space battles.

    That's happened, they are called Lamenters, they get curbstomped every time and that's their fluff. Sanguinor is pretty stupid and I don't mind him gone and the Blood Angels have received absolutely zero good novels.
    Take the Lamenters, and make their appearances the sole representation the Blood Angels get. That is pretty much what the Eldar performance in the Codices and fluff is.

    You have Path of the Eldar series, which is good, or so I hear.
    The Path of the Eldar series is actually not really that great in terms of writing or plotting. The thing that makes it really stand out is the fact that it actually shows an interesting Eldar PoV and has cool fluff about them.

    You regularly play cool supporting roles.
    Those roles are mostly getting butchered so the MIGHTY SPACE MARINES can show up, kill the bad guy of the week and save the day. Yay? WHF has a far more balanced approach. The Empire might have the role of the protagonists most often, but they leave room for the other factions to have their own stories. Why can't they do the same with 40k?

    Or even main antagonists in other novels.
    Which are usually poorly written. Why can't people write the Eldar properly?

    And you have appeared in every game of 40Κ, barring Space Marine and Fire Warrior.
    You've actually missed quite a few where they didn't make an appearance, but whatever.
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  18. #98
    Sanguinary Guardian's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    I misremembered my Eldar lore, it's been a while since I last read up on them. Thanks for the clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Why, is it that hard to have both good fluff and a dignified treatment?
    It's GW we are talking about. I'd be careful if I wished for new fluff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Of course they do. The Sisters of Battle are much more interesting than the Spess Mehreens anyway.
    As it stands, they are not. Space Marines have a broad selection of flavour. You like Roman, you go Ultramarines, you like warrior monks, you go Dark Angels, etc. There are no noticeable differences between the Orders of the Sororitas and that's a same. They are a potentially cool army that gets neglected because of a possible lack of fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    I'm not sure if he can. Going against fan consensus is a hard road to take.
    Talon of Horus was cool, so I have high hopes. I never liked Abaddon the Meat-head. He is supposed to be the Antichrist of 40K.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    In said campaign, the Eldar stomped and what did their community get? One of their special characters killed off in a completely ridiculous fashion. And not to mention that the Order factions did in fact win in the space battles.
    All in all, Chaos won this one. And it has been retconed out of existence so Eldrad (I am assuming you refer to him) is pretty much alive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Take the Lamenters, and make their appearances the sole representation the Blood Angels get. That is pretty much what the Eldar performance in the Codices and fluff is.
    You have a fair share of victories. It's not that bad. It may be under-represented but it's natural. Not many choose to play Eldar. And, I state again, you have some of the best rules, atm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    The Path of the Eldar series is actually not really that great in terms of writing or plotting. The thing that makes it really stand out is the fact that it actually shows an interesting Eldar PoV and has cool fluff about them.
    I don't know, but it sounds nice, compared to the atrocious novels the BA and Sallies get.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Those roles are mostly getting butchered so the MIGHTY SPACE MARINES can show up, kill the bad guy of the week and save the day. Yay? WHF has a far more balanced approach. The Empire might have the role of the protagonists most often, but they leave room for the other factions to have their own stories. Why can't they do the same with 40k?
    You definitely need to read the Gothic War series and Void Stalker. I try to remember the last time I read about Eldar being butchered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Which are usually poorly written. Why can't people write the Eldar properly?
    Is there any absolute "properly"? Each has his or her opinion on how the Eldar should behave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    You've actually missed quite a few where they didn't make an appearance, but whatever.
    Like?

    Ok, I know what you are saying. Avatars are getting their arses kicked constantly in the fluff and you feel overshadowed by other factions. But, in all honesty all aliens are pretty much second-rate and there for the flavour. 40K is essentially Humanity's struggle with itself. I like my Tyranids and I like my Dark Eldar, but I realize that it's not really about them. The Imperium is the protagonist and Chaos is the main villain. All aliens are secondary villains or sidekicks. If I am permitted an analogy, the Imperium is the Batman and Chaos is the Joker. The Eldar assume the role of Catwoman.
    You say that your usual appearance in the fluff is getting murdered by the Space Marines, but fluffwise, Space Marines were designed to kill Eldar, Orks and all the known aliens of the 31st Millennium. Space Marines face great problems when matched by foes they were not designed to face, like Tau, 'Nids and 'Crons.




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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinary Guardian View Post
    It's GW we are talking about. I'd be careful if I wished for new fluff.
    They're probably not going to, but hoping doesn't hurt. By the way, speaking of atrocious fluff, have you seen the new Wolfdex: Wolf Wolves? Where Logan Grimnar rides a chariot driven by wolves? Or the Fangsword of the Ice Wolf?

    As it stands, they are not. Space Marines have a broad selection of flavour. You like Roman, you go Ultramarines
    I don't know, the Ultramarines themselves don't really have anything to distinguish them (Probably part of the point. They're the Vanilla Marines after all) and the entire Imperium is full of Space Romans, so you can say they are more Space Roman than the rest?

    you like warrior monks, you go Dark Angels, etc. There are no noticeable differences between the Orders of the Sororitas and that's a same. They are a potentially cool army that gets neglected because of a possible lack of fans.
    There are no noticeable differences because no one seems to want to bother writing about them. But I like the concept more than the Space Marines.

    Talon of Horus was cool, so I have high hopes. I never liked Abaddon the Meat-head. He is supposed to be the Antichrist of 40K.
    I'm not sure if he is. I remember reading something on the internet which makes an interesting case for the opposite.
    I don't know; I don't particularly want Abaddon rehabilitated, because I actually like the idea of there being major characters in 40k who have flaws like this. It works perfectly well for me, thematically, if Abaddon is a charismatic warlord and decent small unit commander who's in over his head. It'd be kind of nice if, for once, the myth has outgrown the man. It really works for me if Abaddon is trying to do the impossible, but a) can't see it because of his own lack of perspective, b) won't see it because the Chaos gods don't benefit from farsighted people giving up self-destructive obsessions and getting on with productive work, and c) wouldn't stop even if he could see it because he is so consumed by hatred of the Emperor, the overwhelming need for revenge, and a deep-seated inferiority complex that refuses to let him admit that he is just not able to do what Horus did.

    To me, that's an interesting character. That's someone with depth and pathos. If you suddenly make Abaddon a brilliant strategist and the greatest threat to the continued stability of the Imperium, you lose something. The story of a hideously powerful but nonetheless broken man striving against the ghost of Horus and the impossible task he has set for himself, inevitably failing but slaughtering countless millions in the process sounds very interesting to me. The story of a man who actually is all that and a bag of chips just sounds so much more dull.

    Abaddon isn't an interesting character because he's powerful and threatening. Abaddon's an interesting character because he is so flawed. Abaddon isn't the Antichrist, to me. He's Sisyphus.

    While I still have my old WDs out, one comment returns to mind.

    Chaos Space Marines Designer's Notes; Pete Haines; WD274 said:
    Compared to the best villains, heroes can be rather dull because they are either too perfect, too lucky, or just downright predictable. A classic villain has grandiose plans and gets to deliver long soliloquies to captured enemies and intimidated henchmen. He is resourceful and tough, exuding the kind of cool menace that only a villain can. In every respect he is more than a match for the hero except for the fact that he has flaws and weaknesses. These can range from rampant megalomania to a penchant for explaining his cunning plan to the wrong person; clearly villains carry the seeds of their own destruction with them.
    In the same way, it's Abaddon's flaws and weaknesses that make him interesting. All jokes about incompetence aside, the things that make Abaddon compelling are the sheer magnitude of his obsession, his complex relationship with Horus' memory, and the depth of his passions. He hates the Emperor because he took Horus away; and he hates Horus because he lost. He desperately wants to be the next Horus, to the degree of usurping his title and iconography; and he desperately wants the Legion to move on from Horus (as represented by the name 'Black Legion' and the destruction of Horus' body). He must destroy the Imperium because it is responsible for everything that happened to him; and yet he is nothing without the Imperium to test himself against. Abaddon is a bundle of competing and contradictory passions that drive him on a wild course to destruction, and the sheer number of people who will die because of Abaddon's neuroses is terrifying.

    And to my mind you lose all of that if Abaddon is actually up to the task he has set himself. This ambivalence about Horus, this subtle, repressed sense of inferiority that drives Abaddon on to atrocity to atrocity, it would all surely fade if Abaddon really was everything that the legends of the Despoiler say he is.

    I'm not saying he must be incompetent (though I do enjoy a good joke); but I'm saying he must not be the perfect, invincible villain some people want to see him as. You have to walk a fine line.
    All in all, Chaos won this one. And it has been retconed out of existence so Eldrad (I am assuming you refer to him) is pretty much alive.
    I'm not sure what is worse, actually. Killing Eldrad off despite the Eldar doing really well in that campaign, or pressing the reset button.

    You definitely need to read the Gothic War series and Void Stalker. I try to remember the last time I read about Eldar being butchered.
    Aren't those rather old? And as for the Eldar getting butchered, I have some examples in mind:
    Idharae. The Invaders chapter, defying all logic and reason destroys said Craftworld but somehow doesn't get crippled for pulling that stunt. (the fact that they managed it in the first place is rather wanky as well)
    Malan'tai. A single Zoanthrope wipes out said Craftworld.
    5th Edition SM Codex. Yes, the one written by the Spiritual Liege. Calgar kills an Avatar of Khaine by himself. Those are off the top of my head, I'm sure I'd be able to find more. I'm also purposefully discounting the IA series because everybody there acts like an idiot.

    Is there any absolute "properly"? Each has his or her opinion on how the Eldar should behave.
    Well, I'd say C.SS Goto's portrayal of the Eldar is one of the worst offenders (The Ulthwé Seer Council worships Slaanesh?!) or Dawn of War II prior to Retribution is also pretty bad. For starters, I'd say focusing on the arrogance as their sole defining trait is one. (Anyone else thinks that having a more pro-human Eldar would actually be a cool character concept?)

    Like?
    Final Liberation.
    Chaos Gate.
    Squad Command.
    Storm of Vengeance.
    Space Hulk.
    Fire Warrior.
    Space Marine.
    Whatever mobile trash they're making right now.


    Again, of the top of my head. Note that many of these don't have reason to include them, but I just enjoy nitpicking.

    Ok, I know what you are saying. Avatars are getting their arses kicked constantly in the fluff and you feel overshadowed by other factions. But, in all honesty all aliens are pretty much second-rate and there for the flavour. 40K is essentially Humanity's struggle with itself.
    I suppose you can view it as the eternal struggle of the Aquila and the Star of Chaos, but that I believe reduces many of the other interesting conflicts.
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

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    Default Re: Eternal Crusade

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    They're probably not going to, but hoping doesn't hurt. By the way, speaking of atrocious fluff, have you seen the new Wolfdex: Wolf Wolves? Where Logan Grimnar rides a chariot driven by wolves? Or the Fangsword of the Ice Wolf?
    Thankfully not. I am not a fan of Russ' dogs. However the main reason of raging against the puppies is the whole Executioner schtick. The only ones who like it are the Wolves fans and don't they just love to repeat it all the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    I don't know, the Ultramarines themselves don't really have anything to distinguish them (Probably part of the point. They're the Vanilla Marines after all) and the entire Imperium is full of Space Romans, so you can say they are more Space Roman than the rest?
    The Imperium is more Dark Ages, less Roman, but there is this whole Greco-Roman theme to the Ultramarines. Gladii, helmet crests, the belts, the names, the organization of the entire Ultramar. Now, now, I don't say they are Greeks/Romans in space, I am trying to convey that this is the imagery they evoke.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    There are no noticeable differences because no one seems to want to bother writing about them. But I like the concept more than the Space Marines.
    From a business perspective, why would anyone care about their most underplayed faction? From a fan's PoV, it's a damn shame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    I'm not sure if he is. I remember reading something on the internet which makes an interesting case for the opposite.
    I've read that as well, and though I may agree, the BL supplement for Chaos seems to be moving the fluff for Abaddon in the opposite direction. Abaddon has a plan, he has mostly gained from the Black Crusades and his name is whispered in fear, throughout Segmentums Solar, Obscurus and Pacificus, even in the halls of the Imperial Palace. The High Lords of Terra are terrified of him and consider him the greatest threat to the Imperium, even though the tendrils of the Hive Fleets approach, the Necrons awake and the Green Horde musters at Armageddon. They fear Abaddon most of all and I believe he has surpassed Horus. Before the BL supplement and the Talon Of Horus, we were simply told that Abaddon is frightening, now we see why. He wouldn't have made Warmaster if he was just a brute.



    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    I'm not sure what is worse, actually. Killing Eldrad off despite the Eldar doing really well in that campaign, or pressing the reset button.
    Pressing the reset button, because it pisses in the face of every player.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Aren't those rather old? And as for the Eldar getting butchered, I have some examples in mind:
    Idharae. The Invaders chapter, defying all logic and reason destroys said Craftworld but somehow doesn't get crippled for pulling that stunt. (the fact that they managed it in the first place is rather wanky as well)
    Malan'tai. A single Zoanthrope wipes out said Craftworld.
    5th Edition SM Codex. Yes, the one written by the Spiritual Liege. Calgar kills an Avatar of Khaine by himself. Those are off the top of my head, I'm sure I'd be able to find more. I'm also purposefully discounting the IA series because everybody there acts like an idiot.
    The Gothic War series is rather old, but still relevant and Void Stalker was released two years ago and can be found in the Night Lords omnibus. The entire omnibus is awesome, though, I highly recommend it.
    The Invaders lost their homeworld for that raid, right? That makes it even, for me. Malantai is a bit stupid, but you have Yarant Wars, the Swordwind Strikes, the Scouring of Gnosis, the Battle of Rasilena, the Battle of Blood Nebula, the Battle of Duriel and others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Well, I'd say C.SS Goto's portrayal of the Eldar is one of the worst offenders (The Ulthwé Seer Council worships Slaanesh?!) or Dawn of War II prior to Retribution is also pretty bad. For starters, I'd say focusing on the arrogance as their sole defining trait is one. (Anyone else thinks that having a more pro-human Eldar would actually be a cool character concept?)
    Goto is
    a grave offender of 40K in general, so he doesn't count. There is actually a pro-human Eldar in the Gothic War. DoW is generally idiotic in portrayals, but a fun game to play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    Final Liberation.
    Chaos Gate.
    Squad Command.
    Storm of Vengeance.
    Space Hulk.
    Fire Warrior.
    Space Marine.
    Whatever mobile trash they're making right now.


    Again, of the top of my head. Note that many of these don't have reason to include them, but I just enjoy nitpicking.
    Mobile trash is aimed to casual gamers and potential new customers, it's got to have Space Marine in it. Chaos Gate and Final Liberation are awesome but old and you have Rites of War, which was cool and you were the protagonists. Of all alien races, Eldar are the only that gets a unique PoV in videogame format. DoW campaigns, while fun, were to repetitive to be considered unique.


    Quote Originally Posted by Feanaro Curufinwe View Post
    I suppose you can view it as the eternal struggle of the Aquila and the Star of Chaos, but that I believe reduces many of the other interesting conflicts.
    Of course there are, but the main battle always sells better.




    H ΕΛΛΑΔΑ κι ο ΕΛΛΗΝΙΣΜΟΣ είναι αξίες ιερότερες από οποιαδήποτε ειρήνη!

    Despite all we have lost so far, our fire still burns...

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