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Thread: DoM Faction Previews

  1. #61

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by Castilla and Leon View Post
    ...and every named character in the Fourth Age needs a new, original portraits, aside from borrwoing the ones from vanilla.
    At least some factions will have original portraits.

  2. #62

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Dunland

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Dunland is perhaps the least-anticipated faction of DoM. From what I can tell (based on admittedly limited information), Dunland seems the least popular of the 6 factions included in TNS, and with DoM's inclusion of many additional factions – and new lands for many of the existing ones to explore – that is unlikely to change.

    But there's a lot to be said for these guys, and hopefully this preview will get you excited to lead the Dunlendings to victory in Dominion of Men.

    The Chiefdom of Dunland is one of a tiny handful of factions that belong to the 'barbarian' culture in DoM. The others are Rhun, North Rhun, and Khand – and you'll notice that none of those factions are located anywhere near Dunland. As an island of Darkness in a West-facing sea, Dunland must overcome challenges of the political and cultural variety, as well as the obvious military hurdles.

    And DoM has ramped that up even further. In TNS, Dunland benefits from being a 'corner' faction surrounded by natural choke-points provided by mountain passes and rivers. With the inclusion of the northern half of the map, however, Dunland now must concern itself with potential foes from 3, not just 2, directions. Rohan and the Reunited Kingdom remain as paramount concerns, but to the north the City-kingdom of Tharbad has arisen.

    Whether Tharbad is threat, partner, or victim with regard to your Chiefdom is up to fate and, to some extent, your own decisions. On the one hand, Tharbad may be amenable to trade for the early going, allowing you to turn your full attentions toward Rohan. On the other hand, factions sharing borders tend to go to war sooner or later. Tharbad boasts several settlements and strongholds, but with quick, coordinated strikes your hillmen could swarm the ramparts and claim the rich trade city for yourself.

    Further north, the Reunited Kingdom and the Kingdom of Adunabar exchange blows in the former lands of Arnor. In TNS, Adunabar was something of a 'safe' ally for Dunland; you could manage your borders carefully enough to avoid getting too close to one another and inviting a war. But if you conquer Tharbad – or if Adunabar does – you may be facing a very strong faction indeed.

    In addition to the newcomers, the landscape of Dunland has changed somewhat from TNS. Dunland now no longer begins play with ocean-front property; their settlements have been generally shifted eastward, to better reflect the implied balance of power in that region. And rumors of Orcs and worse in the nearby mountains may give a chieftain pause before he sends his pillaging armies too far from his homelands.

    Orcs are another area of change for Dunland. In TNS, Orcish recruitment was done from inside human settlements, once particular buildings were constructed. In DoM, you'll actually have to capture an Orc-hold (and convert to the Shadow Cult) if you want to train the beasts. This of course means that you'll have to defeat any defending Orcs, in order to convince any survivors that you're a strong enough leader to fight for!

    Dunland is one of a few factions in DoM that can substantially change their recruitment options by 'converting' to the Shadow Cult. These factions – including also Harad, Rhun, and of course Adunabar – are considered worthy of the Cult's attention, so once enough Cultic temples are constructed throughout your realm, you will be provided with some alternative units to your 'native' roster. These Cultic units may be stronger or more disciplined than units you could otherwise train, but the price of conversion is the inability to train some of your native types.

    So Dunland actually has, arguably, more variety in some ways than many other factions. Swear fealty to the Cult, and you could train up hordes of Orcs as a vanguard to your conquests, or train reliable, disciplined Cultic forces that complement your own irregular skirmishers and ragged warriors. You could instead resist the Shadow and rely on the strength of your native hillmen and hunters to see you through. Depending on the choices you make, you could experience very different campaigns as a leader of Dunland.

    Playing as Dunland in DoM means always watching your back. You may be celebrating a victorious assault of Edoras when the Reunited Kingdom sends armies to attack your southern borders. You may send your warriors to overawe the Orcs of the Misty Mountains just as Tharbad's Merchant-king decides that conquering your grazelands would help pay for his fleets.

    Unlike your barbarian co-culturalists, Dunland has managed to survive for centuries surrounded by dominant factions. In the Fourth Age, a wary and opportunistic chief of Dunland can see his people thrive – exactly how they thrive is up to you.
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  3. #63

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Reading this preview is like watching a mean old scarred yet fiercely loyal bulldog getting kicked into the face again and again... I feel the strong need to take Dunland, form it to an unkempt, wild-eyed machine of war and show it that yes, it can conquer the world and crush its enemies' throats beneath its bootheel!

  4. #64

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    lol, hey, I love Dunland! They're pretty much the rednecks of Middle-earth - everyone's always puttin' 'em down, takin' their land...
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  5. #65
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    lol, hey, I love Dunland! They're pretty much the rednecks of Middle-earth - everyone's always puttin' 'em down, takin' their land...
    Dunland will rise again!
    It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.
    Proud supporter and fan of Fourth Age: Total War

  6. #66

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Nice read. It seems turning to Cultic ways might just give Dunland the edge they need. This combination of "civilised" and "wild" units seem that might be quite effective to me. But also I hope that staying non-Cultic won’t leave them crippled unit-wise… What I mean, they had orcs in TNS as a standard units and now only if they convert.
    Last edited by Jagmodo; June 29, 2014 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    I don't think I used Orcs too much as Dunland in TNS. Their (potential) absence from the roster in DoM shouldn't make it impossible. Factions will also benefit from mercenaries as well as local levies, so there will be some flexibility in addition to the core factional units I'm mentioning in these previews.
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  8. #68

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    lol, hey, I love Dunland!
    No doubt about that! But I think the love the dev team has for Dunland is of the rough sort... taking their harbour, taking their orcs, taking their corner, probably taking their sheep too... but then again, all of those are still there, just waiting for the player to grab them! plus those cultic forces, plus all the money that you'll get for razing Tharbad from the face of Middle-earth eventually. Plus the fastings and strongholds of the Misty Mountains, where you may have to fight your drawn-out, hopeless last stand.

    Speaking of which, what is... well, I better ask that in the question thread.

  9. #69
    Aikanár's Avatar no vaseline
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    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Another quality and mouth watering appetizer by the Count! Thanks a lot for that very entertaining late-night read. I have to agree with slew-foot-devil, you're faction previews are like a thorn, issuing shivering waves of temptation and longing to play through the suffering desire to play


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  10. #70

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Great thread, Count!

    Your well-written previews are giving me many, many good ideas, how to play DoM once it's out.

    Reading your Dunland preview, I imagined myself sitting in front of my PC on a chilly and rainy autumn day, hugging a cup of hot chocolate... Pondering my next move, while these damn Rohirrim are attacking me in force, with my only army to deserve that name out to take an Orcish stronghold in the Misty Mountains. Lovely.

  11. #71

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Thanks, guys. Glad you're enjoying them!

    The next preview will take us back east, where we'll look more closely at the newly-risen faction of Rhovanion. One of my personal favorites.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Thanks for the previews, I've enjoyed reading them a lot.

    I'm still determined to try Dunland first, no matter how certain that is to end badly, crushing civilization with a horde of bloodthirsty savages is just too enticing a prospect not to attempt it.

    North Rhun second, by the current look of things...


  13. #73

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Hi, jackx!

    Good to know there are more Dunland supporters out there. My guess - though campaign balance still needs to be tweaked - is that North Rhun will have an easier start, just given the terrain and position. But Dunland has the option for a more diverse and deep unit roster. *If* Dunland can win some battles early on, they also have a potential for some very secure and defensible lands, given the proximity of Helm's Deep and the heavily-fortified region around Tharbad.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    I admit that I sympathise quite a lot with people of Dunland. They simply weren’t as bad as many people tend to think of them.

    Even though they were seen as “bad guys” from the perspective of the Dúnedain and Northmen, those “good guys” committed atrocities against them too. In this case it’s hard to determine which side is right. Their reasons for siding with Saruman are not all that inapprehensible; being driven into the hills from the lands they once inhabited, raided by the Rohirrim that looked on them with contempt (having Dunlandish ancestors being quite a big insult among them)… They are far from being saints of course, but also aren’t typical Sauron’s evil minions. After all, Stoors and much later refuges from Erebor found temporary residence in Dunland, of all places they could have chosen. Also, in my opinion admirable, is that they of all people managed to keep their language; related to that of Haladin from the FA.


    By the way, I’m really looking forward to the Rhovanion preview; particularly how the realm was reformed, and how and by who is governed in the FO.
    Last edited by Jagmodo; July 04, 2014 at 11:49 AM.

  15. #75

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Dunland also seems to have some Celtic influence in its language, and also how its people are described, as you say, being driven into the hills - not unlike the Britons during the Anglo-Saxon invasions.

    If I had to pick a racial/cultural group in Middle-earth that most resembles my own ancestry, it would probably be the Dunlendings. I'd never be a Dunadan (not tall enough!), and I'm too dark-haired to pass for a man of Rohan. Well, my hair *is* turning gray...

    Check back for that Rhovanion preview tomorrow or Sunday.
    Last edited by CountMRVHS; July 04, 2014 at 04:39 PM.
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Quote Originally Posted by CountMRVHS View Post
    I don't think I used Orcs too much as Dunland in TNS. Their (potential) absence from the roster in DoM shouldn't make it impossible. Factions will also benefit from mercenaries as well as local levies, so there will be some flexibility in addition to the core factional units I'm mentioning in these previews.
    Depending on how you mean it, I consider orcs to be a core staple of Dunland and they wouldn't be playable in TNS without them.
    And with that I mainly mean their economic influence, their huge population growth bonuses are what makes Dunhold and Duncrioch into large and powerful settlements.
    Trying to play a Dunland campaign without building orc buildings might be an interesting twist....wonder if that would even be possible on anything but normal or lower difficulty.
    At least without a lot of save scumming.

    Quote Originally Posted by slew-foot devil View Post
    probably taking their sheep too...
    They cannot do that! We must fight for our women...errr, I meant sheep....
    Now what will the poor dunlendings do for entertainment late at night after all the bars have closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    I admit that I sympathise quite a lot with people of Dunland. They simply weren’t as bad as many people tend to think of them.

    Even though they were seen as “bad guys” from the perspective of the Dúnedain and Northmen, those “good guys” committed atrocities against them too. In this case it’s hard to determine which side is right. Their reasons for siding with Saruman are not all that inapprehensible; being driven into the hills from the lands they once inhabited, raided by the Rohirrim that looked on them with contempt (having Dunlandish ancestors being quite a big insult among them)… They are far from being saints of course, but also aren’t typical Sauron’s evil minions. After all, Stoors and much later refuges from Erebor found temporary residence in Dunland, of all places they could have chosen. Also, in my opinion admirable, is that they of all people managed to keep their language; related to that of Haladin from the FA.


    By the way, I’m really looking forward to the Rhovanion preview; particularly how the realm was reformed, and how and by who is governed in the FO.
    I really enjoy what TV-tropes is calling "grey and gray morality", where there isn't really any good or evil. I think it reflects much better on human history.
    Noone has ever fought for evil, everyone thinks that they are good (unless we are talking about minor cults and lone individuals) and that their goals are just.

    But Tolkiens world, and fantasy in general, tends to be much more black and white.
    Men of west good, orcs bad.
    At least there is a little bit of reality in it, that there are "evil" elves, without having to resort to a stereotype of dark elves, meaning that elves being evil means they have to become an entirely different race....

  17. #77
    webba84's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Yeah, Tolkien has a fair amount of black and white in it but I think generally its a lot more nuanced than it gets credit for these days, especially compared to its imitators.

  18. #78

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    I agree, Webba. In some ways, it could be argued that Tolkien's take on morality is actually more nuanced than the current crop of modern popular fantasy authors, in that Tolkien's characters run the gamut from wholly evil, through evil-but-potentially-redeemable (Smeagol), to good-but-flawed (Boromir), to good-but-acknowledging-the-complications-of-ruling (Denethor, etc.), to essentially good. I like George R. R. Martin, but morality in his books seems to boil down to an indistinguishable grey slurry. You could argue that's more reflective of real life, but I think Martin is too relentlessly pessimistic.
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  19. #79

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    Rhovanion


    We lost electricity for much of the day yesterday, which meant I didn't get to this write-up as soon as I had wanted. But I did spend some time reading Peter Heather's history of the Goths.

    No, wait! I'm going somewhere with this.

    The history of the Goths appealed to Tolkien. For one, it is the story of a group (or many groups) of people from humble and little-known beginnings in the forests of what is now Poland, who migrated over the early centuries of the first millennium to the northern shores of the Black Sea, were pushed, absorbed, defeated, or incorporated more or less whole by the westward-driving Huns, and found themselves in prolonged conflict with the Eastern and Western halves of the Roman Empire, to eventually carve out kingdoms for themselves in France, Spain, and Italy. It's a story of tragedy and recovery, a story of intense drama that no doubt stirred something in Tolkien just as it stirred the hearts of the Germanic peoples who took memories of that story (or stories) and wove it into the backdrop of their most famous legends. From Beowulf to the Edda to the Niebelungenlied, we see the story of the Goths appear again and again, in shadowy allusions that wrap the tale of the hero in ancientry and tradition, and evoke half-forgotten days and distant lands.

    I'm not suggesting a one-to-one correspondence here, but a story about a historic people whose fate came to be bound up with that of a larger, more 'civilized' power is certainly reminiscent of the treatment Tolkien gave the Northmen of Rhovanion – a group (or groups) of people who grew to prominence in the North, between the eaves of Mirkwood and the Sea of Rhun, and whose fate was certainly interwoven with that of Gondor.

    Before the gifting of Calenardhon to Eorl the Young and the subsequent foundation of Rohan, Gondor formed its first close relationship with Northmen in its alliance with people of Rhovanion. Gondor variously coordinated military action with these people, granted them lands, and even, in one momentous occasion, saw its king wedded to a Rhovanion princess – an act which ultimately led to the Kin-strife. Rhovanion saw its share of tragedy, mostly at the hands of Easterlings, who periodically invaded and enslaved them, setting off a chain of migrations through the great forest that would ultimately lead to the formation of Rohan.

    In Dominion of Men, the devs have imagined that not all of the population of Rhovanion was scattered during the Third Age. Some must have endured and remained in that wide land between the forest and the inland sea, where they mingled with woodmen and Easterlings. During the reforging of the Reunited Kingdom in the Fourth Age, the land may even have seen something of a resurgence, as the safety provided by the Kingdom's military allowed people there to live in relative peace.

    But the shield provided by Elessar and his followers could not be raised forever, and with the chaotic times that followed – a growing Corsair and Haradrian threat, more invasions from the East, and the rise of Adunabar – Rhovanion was increasingly left to look to its own defenses, or indeed to fall under the sway of wild hordes out of Rhun. Perhaps like the Visigoths establishing their own autonomous realm in southern France in the fifth century, the Men of Rhovanion determined that it was no longer worthwhile to pretend that the larger power could continue to operate as their leader and protector. Though not hostile to the Dunedain, the independent Kingdom of Rhovanion was born after throwing off yet another Easterling yoke.

    It is this recently-cobbled-together dynasty that the player of Rhovanion takes control of in the Dominion of Men.

    Rhovanion begins play with three provinces west of the Ered Rhun. To the north, the River Celduin serves as a boundary between the lands of Rhovanion and the possessions of a newly-expanded Dale. Northeast, beyond the foothills of the Ered Rhun and a solitary Dwarven settlement, can be found the Kingdom of Dorwinion. The woodmen of the Beornings have established a settlement in the eastern eaves of the Greenwood, north of the East Bight which itself is occupied by independent woodmen. Westward lie the Brown Lands, unoccupied by any major power. And south and east lie the lands of southern and eastern Rhovanion, hard against the Ash Mountains and the lands of encroaching Easterlings, held by men who claim allegiance to no king.

    With so many nearby independent settlements, it would seem that the first order of business for a king of Rhovanion would be to bring those provinces into the fold. Indeed, your rivals will be attempting the same. It is likely that you will share borders with the Chiefdom of Rhun and the Kingdom of Adunabar within just a few years. Since sharing borders often invites war, you want to be ready for conflict by consolidating power in the region quickly – otherwise your independence as a nation is likely to be very short lived.

    Though the Easterlings and Adunabar, as the largest nearby factions, may seem to be the biggest threat, don't discount your other neighbors. You may be on friendly enough terms with Dale, but they are a powerful and rich kingdom capable of outproducing you. If they turn their attention south too early, you may be hard pressed to fend them off. To that end, maintaining friendly relations – and defenses – along your northern border is good policy. And not only to dissuade an attack from Dale. The nearby Kingdom of Dorwinion, hemmed in a relatively narrow land between the mountains and the inland sea, may seek to expand in your direction rather than face down the hordes of Rhun and North Rhun in the wild lands of the East. It is one of the sad ironies of the times that, before you are able to secure your position as king of Rhovanion, you may find yourself in conflict with fellow Northmen.

    However, such conflict – assuming you survive it – will be merely a prelude to the larger clashes that are sure to follow.

    How this plays out in your campaign will depend upon several factors, but especially the fortunes of the Easterling factions (Rhun and North Rhun) and the outcome of the civil war between the Dunedain.

    In the early years, Adunabar will seek to extend its influence – and that of the Shadow Cult – northward, into lands abutting your own. Conflict with these folk seems likely, but can be managed. Rapid strikes south and west into unclaimed territories may force Adunabar to retreat behind the fences of Mordor, where they may be contained by a combination of your own forces and the vigilance of the Reunited Kingdom and Rohan, both of which make suitable allies for you.

    So while the initial position of Rhovanion seems rather open and indefensible, expansion can leave you in possession of a large realm with strong natural borders: the Anduin to the west, Greenwood and the Celduin to the north, the Sea of Rhun to the east and the Ered Lithui to the south. The largest gap in your borders is the open land between the inland sea and the Ash Mountains, that plain through which so many Easterling invasions passed in ancient times. And it is likely that this will be the avenue of invasion for your greatest foe, the wild men of the East.

    If the Chiefdoms of Rhun and North Rhun remain at peace with one another, each will be easier to deal with, but on the other hand both will be able to channel their armies into the West, both north and south of the Sea of Rhun. If one of these factions instead gains dominance over the other, you will have some time during their conflict to strengthen your own position by claiming nearby rebel territories and making war against troublesome neighbors – but once one chiefdom emerges as the clear victor, it will be in possession of a great deal of land, wealth, and armies. Such a juggernaut may be unstoppable unless you have made sufficient preparations by seizing nearby lands and training effective soldiers to defend them.

    A king of Rhovanion commands a rough-around-the-edges army, with no great advantages or disadvantages. Rhovanion's infantry is capable, but more suited to skirmish and fighting in irregular terrain than prolonged open combat. Like other Northmen, the people of Rhovanion have a fine tradition of horsemanship, and it is in their cavalry that most of their hopes of victory will lie. Though not as varied or well-armed as the riders of Rohan, the cavalry of Rhovanion is swift and built for the charge. But unlike other factions who can rely almost entirely on horsemen (Rohan, Khand) or infantry (Reunited Kingdom, Adunabar), Rhovanion's cavalry must work in tandem with its foot-bound warriors to earn victory for their king.

    The Kingdom of Rhovanion in DoM occupies one of those 'blank spaces' in Tolkien's maps, about which little is known but much is hinted. We can read about famous men of Rhovanion such as Vidugavia, Marhari, and Marhwini in the Appendices and Unfinished Tales, but there's something exciting about the prospect of slipping into the saddle as the leader of a newly-independent Kingdom of Rhovanion, one which looks ahead to an uncertain future without losing sight of its remarkable if fragmentary past.

    To be successful, a king of Rhovanion must weather the storm brewing in the East, but he must also manage his relationship with powers in the West. Old alliances and friendships may no longer hold in the Fourth Age, and a resurgent Reunited Kingdom may seek to reclaim its dominance over all the territories west of the Sea of Rhun.

    If, while playing as Rhovanion, you feel constantly caught in between the machinations of greater powers, you can take some solace in the knowledge that such has always been the case for the men who called this broad and unruly land their home. It's your job to ensure that, like the historic Goths after whom some aspects of Rhovanion's people are modeled, you can carve out for yourself a place among the mighty of which your descendants can be proud.
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  20. #80

    Default Re: DoM Faction Previews

    "off-topic on" I mostly agree with Webba and Count. I would say that while the two main opposed forces in Tolkien's universe are clearly black and white, namely Good vs Evil, the individuais that populate the said universe are not so clearly divided. Of course, Morgoth, and later Sauron, represent Evil and can be easily defined so, while Good is represented by "the Powers" (Valar and Maiar) and, ultimately, Eru Illúvatar. However, all the other characters, ranging from Elves to Orcs, are not completely good nor bad. There's many flaws in both the Eldar and the Edain. The Men that fought for the Dark Lord are said to be manipulated and coerced to fight, I don't think they thought they were fighting for Evil. Even the Orcs, despite having the clear notion they were performing, were convinced that their enemies did the same, so, for them, it was fair game.
    In conclusion, you could say that Tolkien projected his Catholic/Christian belief on the universe he created. "off-topic off"

    Great read, Count .
    Last edited by Bercor; July 06, 2014 at 03:05 PM.

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