Obama warns France on Russia Mistral ship deal vs Hollande warns Obama against sanctions on French bank.

[pajomife]

Obama warns France on Russia Mistral ship deal vs Hollande warns Obama against sanctions on French bank

US vs France

Accepted bets, who is the man? To much testosterone? I mean France and US always had complicated relations, one as a former world sovereign, the other as a new master of the world that do not admit setbacks.

The fine in Paribas case,could have economic and financial consequences across the eurozone,all the europe could suffer just because a bank breach the US sanctions via money transfers involving countries including Iran, Sudan and Syria.
The rules apply to companies located in the U.S. or in international transactions in its currency.

The federal courts of New York, having the forehead Attorney Lewsky, became known for the fine imposed on the bank in the amount of 10 billion dollars and the temporary suspension of certain transactions in dollars from the bank.

It is general understanding, the rules of complaince in the United States of America, that these transactions were made in some other currency of international prices do not apply to them fines. The problem is that the raw materials in the main international markets are transacted in U.S. dollars. Its time to Europe replace the dollar or at least made a great effort in that direction ? I bet Russia and china could help. Or is all about be dominated by the US.

This case of BNP Paribas again put into question the value of the euro as reference currency for international transactions. The crisis in the eurozone no credit in your favor. Does believe that after the former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was right when he wanted to reduce the weight of the dollar in oil trading operations in his country, just few days before becomes dispensable.

France will accept blackmail made ​​by Obama?Will cancel a signed contract, because of American pressure?Will lost 2 billion Euros and cause hundreds of unemployeds?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

when did the frogs ever own the world? and no I think the frogs should step in line and keep the ship, and not feed the bear with pretty new ship for their new pretty harbour in a pretty black sea....

[Heathen Hammer]

Money talks, and BS walks. Obama will have to take a walk..

[Stavroforos]

Well as we saw in Bulgaria, the US can exert pressure when it has to, but it will have to be serious pressure if it means France breaks its contractual commitments to France. Considering their defense companies supply weapons to countries which aren't always savory and considering they're faced with an export slump, I don't think they'll want to show the world that even huge contracts can be risked.

[pajomife]

when did the frogs ever own the world? and no I think the frogs should step in line and keep the ship, and not feed the bear with pretty new ship for their new pretty harbour in a pretty black sea....

Man you have to recognize that France was a world power,a secondary one in fact,but still was.No matter they almost never win a war,at least alone. But receiving a such direct order from master Obama is to hard to accept.

[hellheaven1987]

France will accept blackmail made ​​by Obama?Will cancel a signed contract, because of American pressure?Will lost 2 billion Euros and cause hundreds of unemployeds?

Hey, no one point a gun behind French's head and force them to be on the boat of anti-Russia; if Hollande wants to send out a contradict message to rest of world, who can stop him?

Besides Obama said he only showed "concern", not something serious as warning; especially the Baltic states already said some Russian generals told them those ships were specially ordered in order to invade them.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Man you have to recognize that France was a world power,a secondary one in fact,but still was.No matter they almost never win a war,at least alone. But receiving a such direct order from master Obama is to hard to accept.

the frogs never really own anything beside their little lake with a few small lakes around the world.

and it wasn't a order, it was a concern.

"Im concern that you are giving to much food to that bear" contra "I order you to stop feeding that bear"

[Heathen Hammer]

the frogs never really own anything beside their little lake with a few small lakes around the world.

and it wasn't a order, it was a concern.

"Im concern that you are giving to much food to that bear" contra "I order you to stop feeding that bear"

Bear pays hard cash. With that in mind, I don't think French will respond to Obabo's concern with anything but taunting.

[Stavroforos]

I like it when we pretend as though we don't understand what it means when the US President says he's concerned about an issue concerning an ally.

[conon394]

Money talks, and BS walks. Obama will have to take a walk..

Really both will. Cracking down on a bank will look good in the US now and before elections making a French one will not hurt any US pol. But of course there are is lots of wiggle room the fact is on balance the US looks more like sanctions compliance that was agreed to. Previous fined banks got various waivers I sure BNP will as well. Also consider the Official French opposition to GE's bid for Alstom, that might well incline the US to use the hammer on french banks while letting the Swiss off easy for example

I doubt the French will not deliver the first ship - that's lot to ask - but I suspect Obama is really trying to delay or kill the second.

In any case I don't consider Mistral all that impressive really. Its defenses are very light in compared to say a Wasp Class ship and it remains a non domestic buy - so where do the spare parts come from? What can Russia fly off it - helicopters and I suppose oh and maybe a of their old Yak 38s real scary - or not since w/o a ski jump they will almost no payload. Anything new that does not sink is kind of nice for Russia however, but I would keep that perspective.

[pajomife]

I like it when we pretend as though we don't understand what it means when the US President says he's concerned about an issue concerning an ally.

It means that France should be concerned with the Obama concerns.

[Stavroforos]

Yup.

[Heathen Hammer]

Really both will. Cracking down on a bank will look good in the US now and before elections making a French one will not hurt any US pol.

That will do away with whatever remains of America's image in Europe. Putin is in Europe's pocket, he does everything EU tells him to do (financially) and I doubt Europeans would jeopardize their grip on Russia just because Obabo is concerned.

In any case I don't consider Mistral all that impressive really. Its defenses are very light in compared to say a Wasp Class ship and it remains a non domestic buy - so where do the spare parts come from? What can Russia fly off it - helicopters and I suppose oh and maybe a of their old Yak 38s real scary - or not since w/o a ski jump they will almost no payload. Anything new that does not sink is kind of nice for Russia however, but I would keep that perspective.

Russians do not seem to care about their fleet. Chinese are the ones building air carriers.

[Mangalore]

The Brits should buy the ships, fly French colors and sink them at the anniversary of Trafalgar just in sight of the Crimean peninsula, just to be dicks to everyone. Just to be thorough they should check if they can tow the wreckage of the Bismarck to that destination before dumping the Mistrals on top of it.

I can understand the French problems with scrapping nearly finished billion Euro contracts but if they give Russia modern military hardware after what they have done in Crimea I hope that they have pretty good backdoors installed on those systems...
How much equipment besides the hull and machinery is French / western btw?

[Roma_Victrix]

when did the frogs ever own the world?

Well, aside from their worldwide colonial empire that stretched all the way to Southeast Asia and at one point included an enormous chunk of what is now the continental United States (look at the "Louisiana Purchase" of 1803), let's not forget that Napoleon Bonaparte conquered much of Europe and made an earnest attempt to invade and conquer Russia in 1812.

That aside, I honestly don't think the French are going to ax this deal. It's just too much money and sends the wrong message to investors, at least from the French perspective. From the US government's perspective France is consorting with the devil (i.e. Putin) and getting a little too cozy with him at a time when further sanctions are being threatened over Ukraine.

[6th Vigil]

The Brits should buy the ships, fly French colors and sink them at the anniversary of Trafalgar just in sight of the Crimean peninsula, just to be dicks to everyone. Just to be thorough they should check if they can tow the wreckage of the Bismarck to that destination before dumping the Mistrals on top of it.

This sounds like the best solution although the towing of the Bismarck might be a bit too difficult.

Seriously though, I doubt the French will stop the delivery of the mistrals, maybe delay, but not halt the sale entirely. Perhaps if other nations were willing to make moves of a similar magnitude against Russia then they would be more willing but that seems unlikely at this stage.

EDIT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a9c8ecd4-a...#axzz34FbeqdcD

This seems to line up with what I said above but more specific to the UK then other EU members. Reminds me slightly of French and British actions in regards to the American Civil War, "I'll jump if you jump too" kinda deal.

[Geronimo2006]

The Mistral sale should be cancelled. A Russian general recently said that with the Mistrals the conflict in Georgia would have ended in 40 hours rather than 5 days. The deal is all the more unforgivable given the Sarkozy government signed it after the Georgian war. I welcome Obama finally switching off the reset-button. The deal was an outburst of Gaullism. De Gaulle prided himself on an independent foreign policy from the US, culminating in a partial withdrawal from NATO. Ironically it was Sarkozy that rejoined NATO.

One possible deal could be dropping or cutting the fine in return for cancelling the sale or selling to a NATO ally instead. Maybe like Germany which has no aircraft carriers.

[I WUB PUGS]

France will not be backing down.

France is barely holding onto its qualified shipwrights and this deal is essentially floating the entire French ship-building industry. There is also long-term support within Russia proper being sent over. That means Frenchmen in Russia maintaining, training, advising on the Russian naval revitalization.

Unless Obama wants to buy these ships, then there's no way around it.

Also, discounting the usefulness of the Mistral is quite frankly stupid. The Mistral is not a Wasp, no, why would that comparison even be made? The Wasp is double the size and meant to be used as the hub of a forward deployed MEU. The Mistral is being designed for a regional flank from the sea in conjunction with supporting assets like a carrier or the big Russian cruisers and destroyers. Moreover, Russia has never been able to pull of the type of amphib capability that the Mistral immediately brings. Previously, Russia had only local amphibious capability. They had hydrofoils, LCACs and medium sized landing docks. These work fine if you can move assets by land to a port that's relatively close to your objective. Then load up and do your little flank. Russia will get the capability to project conventional ground forces with heavy equipment farther then they have ever been able to before.

Not to mention that with the new technology and the expertise provided by the French, they will have an addition to their library and could use that knowledge to build larger ships. The Mistral, while smaller, and weak on the defenses still brings cutting edge technology to a country that desperately needs it.

[Lord of Nihilism]

The French won't bend to the Americans will I think. French-US trade isn't that much compared to EU-French trade so I don't see how exactly the US can coerce France into cancelling the deal. There's also the fact that someone is going to have to buy the ships and i'm 95% sure that the US isn't so why would the French cancel the project and take a huge loss for nothing? To please the US? I think not. If the French do decide to sell the Mistral ships to the Russians then it's safe to say that De Gaulle's policies are somewhat intact, and that's a good thing.

[Heathen Hammer]

I can't wait to see Russians use those ships against some pro-Western regimes.