SSHIP - General Discussion

[Lifthrasir]

Many thanks Gercog. I've just had a look on wiki about the Novgorod Republic. So as far as I can understand, when Novgorod started to be independant from Kiev, Knyazs were ruling the city.
Were they replaced later on by the Podsanik (or the Podsanik was a Knyazs)? What was the position of the Knazs compare to the Tys'Atskys (military commander)?

Is it comparable for Kiev, considering that the Prince was above all?

[Gercog]

Many thanks Gercog. I've just had a look on wiki about the Novgorod Republic. So as far as I can understand, when Novgorod started to be independant from Kiev, Knyazs were ruling the city.
Were they replaced later on by the Podsanik (or the Podsanik was a Knyazs)? What was the position of the Knazs compare to the Tys'Atskys (military commander)?

Is it comparable for Kiev, considering that the Prince was above all?

I think the title of Knyaz can be used for both factions. Because the principality of Kiev, As its name implies that there rules Knyaz. In Novgorod, also ruled by princes(Knyaz) - Prince of Novgorod

[Gercog]

coming with the next release:
- Nottingham is becoming Lincoln (position adjusted as well on the map)
- Caen is removed and Norwich is added in England (North-East of London)

Good idea! But do not forget to make a titles for these settlements, because in version 0.8.3. in the new towns did not have titles(ancillaries).

[Lifthrasir]

It's done already with the correct coat of arms as well. Rouen and Valladolid have been corrected as well (ancillary and coat of arms).

Regarding Novgorod and Kiev, the ruler of Kiev should have the title of "Velikiy Knyaz" (Grand Prince) and the other nobles can own the title of "Knyaz". Is it the same for Novgorod?
I have to admit that I'm a bit confused.

[Navajo Joe]

Lifth,

Having Lincoln and Norwich, they are very close to each other, together with London, means three settlements very close to each other

[Lifthrasir]

Actually, it's not that close on the game map. Lincoln is a bit further North compare to Nottingham. Norwich is in the North-East of London. I'll post a pic soon.

Edit: here is the promised map.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Overlord.ru]

Hi Lift!

1) How to improve my reputation to get marriages? I reported this issue cuz I couldn't even arrange marriage with an allied faction (Poland for example, with which I had already had 1 marriage)...
2) Reported the russian factions' names cuz they sound a bit weird for me (I'm russian btw ), especially Novgorodskaya Zemlja...Zemlja means land, like the one under your feet, but Knyazhestvo means Pricnipality (Duchy,County...) which sounds far more appropriate. Novgorod was indeed a republic and ruled in a more democratic way, but still formal it WAS a Knyazhestvo, the same as all others in Russia during the period. The Knyaz in Novgorod was like a Head of the Novgorodian "Veche" - a russian equivalent for council or parliament, but he still was a Knyaz and a ruler as a King for example. The Rus faction could be renamed to Kievskaya Rus, which is also a more appropriate historic title.

P.S. anyway, I checked the allmighty Wikipedia just of curiosity and "Novgorodskaya Zemlja" is indeed the historical title, but regarding our time frame we could use more appropriate "Novgorodskaya Respublica (Republic, according to Wikipedia in 1136 A.D.)". Knyazhestvo is more a common word, all large principalities had this name. "Kievskaya Rus" is more a name for a historic period, or it can be treated as a name for a greater territory than just Kiev and it's surrounding territory.

Finally, I would suggest "Novgorodskaya Respublica" for Novgorod and "Kievskoe Knyazhestvo" for Kiev. I'm not a historian and those are just my opinion, consider it

[Gercog]

It's done already with the correct coat of arms as well. Rouen and Valladolid have been corrected as well (ancillary and coat of arms).

Regarding Novgorod and Kiev, the ruler of Kiev should have the title of "Velikiy Knyaz" (Grand Prince) and the other nobles can own the title of "Knyaz". Is it the same for Novgorod?
I have to admit that I'm a bit confused.

Ruler(king) of Novgorod, can be called a Knyaz, and the other nobles Posadnik

[Lifthrasir]

You can improve your reputation by releasing prisonners instead of killing them or ransomming them for example. Try to not attack other catholic factions. Please the Pope. I might be wrong. I just think about that because your reputation is "untrustworthy". Same for Poland and even worth for Sicily. That might be the reason but that's just a guess. MWY should be able to answer you in a better manner.

Unless somebody else comes with another suggestion, I guess that your proposal is fine for Novgorod and Kiev. So if I got it right, it would be as follow:
- Novgorod = Novgorodskaya Respublica
- Kiev = Kievskoe Knyazhestvo

Regarding Posadnik, I'm not sure. That word can be translated for Mayor or Town Administrator. Even if he was elected among the boyards by the "veche", I can't find any evidence of his role for military purposes. From my understanding, he had a similar function as the Bailli or Provost in Medieval France.
Still, considering my little knowledge for that part of the world at that period, I think that "Knyaz" would fit better. But in that case, how to make the difference between the faction leader and the other nobles. For Kiev, it's quite easy. But for Novgorod, I can't find anything. Once again, that's just my understanding.

[Gercog]

From my understanding, he had a similar function as the Bailli or Provost in Medieval France.

Posadnik had his army too. It was called Posadskoe voysko(army).

[Lifthrasir]

Ok, so for Novgorod it would be:
- faction's name: Novgorodskaya Respublica
- Faction Leader title: Knyaz of Novgorod
- Noble's titles: Posadnik of...

For Kiev, it would be:
- faction's name: Kievskoe Knyazhestvo
- Faction Leader title: Velikiy Knyaz
- Noble's title: Posadnik of...

Is that correct that way?

[Overlord.ru]

I would also argue on Posadnik, I vote for Knyaz name for nobles, cuz Velikiy Knyaz(=High Knyaz) was a title for the main ruler (same as king for example), while his sons or rulers of other largest settlements, i.e. regional capitals(usually members of his family or his relatives) were called Knyaz. Posadnik is a name for quite a lesser administrator. The only thing I'm unsure about is the appropriate name for the Novgorodian ruler, maybe it would be Velikiy Knyaz Novgorodskiy or just Pravitel Novgoroda(Ruler of Novgorod), it's hard to pick cuz Novgorod and Kiev were sometime one single country called Kievan Rus, which ruler was Velikiy Knyaz. So:

Ok, so for Novgorod it would be:
- faction's name: Novgorodskaya Respublica
- Faction Leader title: Velikiy Knyaz Novgorodskiy or Pravitel Novgoroda(Ruler of Novgorod) (requires research)
- Noble's titles: Knyaz

For Kiev, it would be:
- faction's name: Kievskoe Knyazhestvo
- Faction Leader title: Velikiy Knyaz (can also be Velikiy Knyaz Kievskiy)
- Noble's title: Knyaz


If you want nobles' names to sound more authentically, they should sound like Knyaz(title) Vladimir(name) for example, or Knyaz Vladimir Galizkiy (means Vladimir from Galich, ruler of Galich)

[Gercog]

I'll stay by my opinion)
For Novgorod it would be:
- faction's name: Novgorodskaya Respublica or Novgorod Republic
- Faction Leader title: Knyaz of Novgorod
- Noble's titles: Posadnik of...

For Kiev, it would be:
- faction's name: Kievskoe Knyazhestvo
- Faction Leader title: Velikiy Knyaz
- Noble's title: Knyaz

[Gercog]

By the way, since we're talking about Russian factions...) I added a model for the Russian cities from Rusichi mod. If you are interested, I can give you the link to these files

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Kadoken]

@ Overlord.ru, regarding the spaming navy, I'm not sure what causes it. MWY might have the solution.
Regarding the marriage proposal, it might be due to your reputation. I'd suggest to improve your reputation and to check if you have better results.
Can you give some more details about the Russian titles you mentionned? I thought that Novgorod was a republic, not a Duchy or County. If Knyazhestvo mean "Duchy", what's the word for Duke or Count? Many thanks in advance for your answer.

@ umbracatervae777, regarding the spaming faction, I have no idea why. It might be due to some old stuff remaining in some files. I'll check that.

@ Kadoken, regarding the 1 settlement type, there was a submod done by Nordom until the v0.8.2. But with the new version and due to some region changes, I think it's not working anymore. Be advised that some more region changes are coming with the next release:
- Nottingham is becoming Lincoln (position adjusted as well on the map)
- Caen is removed and Norwich is added in England (North-East of London)

I'll do some EBII and wait for that in the mean time.

Is the castle/town Medieval 2 mechanic historical?

[MWY]

@Overlord: The ship but can't really be fixed. Otherwise the AI wouldn't recruit ships at all and there would be no naval invasions..

About the marriage stuff: You don't really have good relations with those people. And you don't have a good reputation. So that's probably why they don't want a marraige with you.

The proposal balance is not always displayed correct in SSHIP, especially in stuff concerning alliances. I can't change that either though..

Your reputation improves automatically with time, the less wars you have going on the faster. And the less "evil" or "merciless" you act obviously.

@umbracatervae: It's a bug with the respawning factions script. It's a bit complex to explain but basically I tried fixing it but it can't be fixed without removing the faction respawn. And I think that's still worth it.

[Overlord.ru]

@Overlord: The ship but can't really be fixed. Otherwise the AI wouldn't recruit ships at all and there would be no naval invasions..

About the marriage stuff: You don't really have good relations with those people. And you don't have a good reputation. So that's probably why they don't want a marraige with you.

The proposal balance is not always displayed correct in SSHIP, especially in stuff concerning alliances. I can't change that either though..

Your reputation improves automatically with time, the less wars you have going on the faster. And the less "evil" or "merciless" you act obviously.

Okay then... but thx !

Sry if this was mentioned before, but do you guys plan to implement BGR stuff in the future?

[Lifthrasir]

Not for now and if it is one day, it won't be in its full version.
1st, it's a hell of work to do.
2nd, we don't agree with all features in it.
3rd, we're trying to give to SSHIP its own system.

[Overlord.ru]

Well I don't like all it's features too, the supply and foraging systems would do well though...

What would you advice to do with rebel generals? Do you plan to add some prison\execute options, like in DLV mod?

[MWY]

Yes that's true.. The only thing we currently have is the siege upkeep.. we should probably add more to that.

Do you know how the prison/execute stuff works exactly in DLV? Can you really kill one of your characters via yes/no decision?