General Discussion, Feedback, Suggestions & FAQ

[Mathieu Of Belgium]

Something I hope to see implented is regional armor for the Dunlendings. It is something that's already been done in the first LotR mod (Rome I http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-lord-o...ings-total-war ; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...LotRTW)-(ALX)).

In this mod if the Dunlendings would capture a region (originally) owned by Gondor, they would be able to recruit units wearing parts of the Gondorian armour. Likewise if they conquer a region originialy belonging to Rohan, they would be able to recruit units wearing parts of Rohan's armour.

[Byfolth]

Hey, just letting you know there is another LOTR rome 2 mod being developed as well
http://www.moddb.com/mods/total-war-middle-earth

[Mr.Jox]

We know it. We have some different points, they base their mod on books and we base our mod on films(visual part, gameplay of course lore accurate).

[Generalissimo Naranjo]

I would like to make a few suggestions for the Haradrim:
- Regarding height, it is said that the men of Harad were tall. But what is tall in Middle Earth?
- The Haradrim where divided in different tribes, and their invading force was led by one they called "Black Serpent". So how about having a general with the title/ancillary? It could be a bonus to command/dread/hitpoints.
- Maybe some Haradrim could have a war chant like they did in the movie. I think they used a Maori chant? It could scare the enemies, like the Aztec Coyote Priests in M2TW.
- The Harad Horn should be in here. You should feel bad if there's no Harad Horn.
- There should be more scimitar units, because they're awesome.
- Aside from the half-trolls, there should be more units with black skin.
- From what I've seen in the movies, some Haradrim have swords made out of bone. There could be a skirmish sword unit called "Beast Hunters" or "Desert Slayers" that use bone swords made from they animals they hunt. They could be described as a unit from one of the many Harad tribes, and maybe this could be made for other units too (a unit being described as being sent by one of the many different tribes.). Maybe that's bit of a stretch but neither the books nor the movies give us a lot to work with in terms of unit variations :/

New unit ideas:
- Desert Slayers, light sword unit.
- Fangs of the Serpent, heavy scimitar unit.
- Scorpion Bowmen, skirmishers.
- Mahud Mystics, light frightening unit.
- Horde Riders, med cavalry.

Edit: The Black Serpent should have a special ability that increases speed and attack for a short time. It could be called "Black Poison". Wait, are there even any special abilities in Rome II?

Just a few ideas that may be a bit of a stretch, but I hope I contributed something. Keep up the good work and I hope everything goes well!

[Privatecamping]

I could do a English-Hungarian translation gladly

[Privatecamping]

When you speak of Haradrim i have a suggestion... Maybe you could make like (what are in Rome 2 houses\dynasties) 3 mayor tribes that rule over all Haradrim people.. I gues that i can provide info for their names and their characteristics

[Mr.Jox]

If our move to Attila goes successful we can use Hunns faction type for Rhun and Harad.
For Rhun we plan ~4 factions(Khand, Wanriders, Balcoth, and fictional north clan near Esgaroth, Dale, Erebor and Iron Hills).
For Harad we planned to have only Harad and Umbar. But we will look if we can split Harad on some more tribes.

[Privatecamping]

I suggest that you stick with Tolkiens idea of these people.. Tolkien said that the Haradrim are like an arab-middle eastern type of people, Easterlings of Rhun and the Variags of Khand are both very similar but the main focus of Rhun is on missile-heavy infantry (Loke-Rim) and I would say that they have some Far Eastern influance..Khand has of course focus on its heavy-lancer cavarly and some good bow-cavarly like a mongol-hun faction.

[Mr.Jox]

In any case we don't see any strategic influence of Khand as a separated from Rhun faction. In this case allied factions will be around Khand so no need of this faction. Another dial is 4 factions as I said which can be united into Rhun faction and recruit all untis these 4 factions have with saving troops.
Harad may has Far Harad, Near Harad and smth else as three basic tribes.

[cshewey]

My thoughts on Harad,

Honestly i will probably never play as harad in the campaign, but they may be an interesting faction in multi-player (if you download this mod please play online to make it more fun). However regardless of my opinion of the faction it is still important that a deep well thought out faction be present whether or not i want to play AS them i certainly will play AGAINST them.

So here goes:

Harad seems to be a primarily cavalry oriented faction with light support infantry (from TT and ROTK), i think as a faction they would be somewhat a -kin to Parthia or Armenia in TWr2. However instead of super heavy catafracts they would have access to several strong melee cavalry units (scimitars) and Horse archer units. I invision units like Noble Blood Cavalry and Armoured Horse Archers would be similar (not in appearance but in practice) to the roster of a Haradric Cheiftan. The roster that is in TATW i think i a well balanced roster but i would cut their infantry a little (no dismounted serpent guard or heavy infantry for that matter) and stronger cavalry (maybe just below the strength of Rohan) The roster in my mind looks something like this:

Generals;
Serpent Guard (Very heavy scimitar armed melee cavalry), Troll-men Chief Warriors (Elite Troll men from far Harad), and Serpent Archers (Well armoured (mounted or dismounted) archer, with scimitars as an alt attack)

Melee Infantry;
Tribesmen (cannon fodder spear men like levy free men in R2) Haradrim Spearmen (Slightly more expensive but still pretty poor spear unit, only well used to support cavalry) Haradrim Pikemen (Mid tear pike unit with good speed but low armour) Hashari (Same thing as in TATW) Troll men (very heavy melee infantry 1/2 unit size capped to 3) Troll men Chief Warriors (Super heavy melee infantry 1/2 unit size capped to 2)

Missle Infantry;
Tribal Archers (Arrow fodder missle units), Haradrim Archers (solid low armour good accuracy archers just like eastern archers in R2) Dismounted Serpent Archers (Elite, armoured archers all purpose) Muhad Beastmen (Just like TATW; jav inf)

Melee Cavalry;
Tribal cavalry (Very light very fast cavalry for getting around the flanks) Haradrim Horsemen (Basic lower level mid tear cavalry) Haradrim Heavy Horsemen (Better armoured more elite solid mid tear cavalry) Serpent Guard (Very heavy melee cavalry)

Missile Cavalry;
Tribal Raiders (Very light jav cav a kin to horse skirmishers in R2) Haradrim Raiders (Light armoured fast and mobile horse archers) Muhad Beastmasters (Camel riding jav cav just like in TATW) Serpent Archers (Very heavy missle cavalry)

And then of course Mumakil (maybe a light unarmoured version called "Haradric Oliphant" and then the "war Elephant" version of Mumakil"?

That is a base roster i would like to see. What are some other units people would like to see for Harad? I think balance is important, i see Rohan as being the superior in Melee but Harad being the better when it comes to missile. Kind of like Rhun/Gondor rivalry. Rhun with solid infantry and better support units, Gondor with better infantry and decent support units. Also i will throw in that, man for man Dol Amroth's units should be superior (stat wise) to Gondor because of the elvish blood/influence there. Dol Amroth needs to be seperate from Gondor so as to oppose Umbar and protect Gondor from the sea.

[Privatecamping]

1st I think that you dont see what is harad like..yes it has some decent cavarly but they are poor and they do not have the money like Khand or Rhun for good horses, they are desert animal breeders and they are focused on light spear inf and some good archers.. They also have good numbers far better than Gondor or the Principality of Dol Amroth. Their main weapon is the Mumakill and the Black Numenoreans who are still holding great power but there is few of them left.. They also depend on their numbers when fighting a better enemy.. Their main enemy is gondor and their closest and most valuable alies are the Pirates and Mercenaries of Umbar.

Now about Dol Аmroth. They are a mixture of Noldor elves and the Telari elves and the Numenor.
Main focus are knights and I would say that their main disadvantage is that their number is smal and you need a lot of turns to muster and train their units (and they cost much)
They would have great heavy inf and cav but not so good archers..You could add some elvish units too in late game.Like Guard of Hyarmen and the Telari wouldhave ships that would match Umbars black ships
They would have Gondor as their main friend but you could aliance them with Lindon

[Mr.Jox]

afaik Dol Amroth is just only one region with pure Gondor's dunedain blood(plus some nobles, Ithilien Rangers and stewards are dunedain in Gondor too). I don't think we have to make mix with elves(i mean units). We can only add some elven culture in this region. But mainly Dol Amroth is the remmants of Numenoreans in Gondor.

[Privatecamping]

Oke it was just a suggestion.. Will there be a noldor faction like Ost-in-Edhil or Eregion remnents?

[Mr.Jox]

In any case each region of ME must be owned by a faction. So of course Eregion and Ost-in-Edhil will be owned by some factions (If these settlements will be presented ingame)

[Vikus van de Merwe]

@Privatecamping
@cshewey

Since I'm working on the faction of Harad, your posts and outlines are really important for me. I already created a first version of its roster but I'll of course have a look which things can be added / completed.

[cshewey]

First, PrivateCamping;
I think you are imagining things about Harad. Your statements are true if we only take in account the movies. But this mod also takes into account the books which clearly tell us in the battle of Pelennor that Harad had plenty of heavy scimitar armed horsemen and beastemen from the east just like i stated.

Also there were no elves living in Dol Amroth at the time, only the small amount of blood left in their bloodlines gave them strength beyond Gondor. You are mostly right about Dol Amroths roster though but they did have plenty of good archers as well. Dol Amroth is a men version of elves, everything they ave is excellent, but few in number and costly to field.

Vikus,

Awesome and thanks. I am sure you will do an amazing job on Harad. Keep up the good work and then me know when you all are working on the elves so i can help out.
If you sent me the roster for Harad that you have i would be happy to add anything possible to add depth to the faction if you want to. But if you dont i fully trust you as well.

Keep it up!

[Privatecamping]

Well there where still elves around the shores.. and before the Nûmenor colonists arived there were only Telarin and Noldor elves there were some man of course..EElves are imortal so they could not die there and there is also a fraze that said that the telari elves would rader stay in middle earth by the sea than go to Valinor.. So I think that you need to add a certain amount of elvish culture to that area of ME.. Now about Harad..
Yes there was some good cavarly but I said that the main thing is the Mumakil and that IS PRESENTED IN THE BOOK as well as in the movie.. Pls tell me what good archers does the Principality has because i could not find anything about that in the books ...

[Mr.Jox]

Can't understand people's love of the elves..

[cshewey]

Well there where still elves around the shores.. and before the Nûmenor colonists arived there were only Telarin and Noldor elves there were some man of course..EElves are imortal so they could not die there and there is also a fraze that said that the telari elves would rader stay in middle earth by the sea than go to Valinor.. So I think that you need to add a certain amount of elvish culture to that area of ME.. Now about Harad..
Yes there was some good cavarly but I said that the main thing is the Mumakil and that IS PRESENTED IN THE BOOK as well as in the movie.. Pls tell me what good archers does the Principality has because i could not find anything about that in the books ...

Well i will add it to you the books dont mention much about dol amroth at all other then swan knights, but my assuption of archer excellence would come from the elvish blood in them. Elves are amazing with whatever weapon they pick up, a little of this would pass on to DA. Also being a primarily defencive faction, it would make sense for DA to have solid missile units to support their naval and land based army. TATW DaC represent DA with several good archer units including: Nimrodel rangers (i would put your elvish culture in units like that, like half elves as i am not aware of any actually full blooded elves existing that far south, all the Teleri as to my knowledge live int he grey havens. And some that followed King Amroth moved to Lorien after he was lost hense the "Cerin Amroth" in Lothlorien) And Tirith Aer Marksmen (heavy archers).

I didnt say that Mumikil wernt Harad's "thing" infact i agree they are and should be. I just wanted to point out that they did have hvy melee cav as well.

[cshewey]

Can't understand people's love of the elves..

Uhh we love the elves because they resemble everything admirable and noble in man and none of the cons.

Obviously the blood of the firstborn is not flowing through you mr. j. Maybe your more of a black numenorean type? They dont understand us Noldor. Now back to the shadow servant of Sauron!

just kidding.

Hope that helps you understand