General Discussion, Feedback, Suggestions & FAQ

[Mr.Jox]

I noticed there are many one-handed sword units in ROM,maybe you guys can make a big change to their animation?Attila's one-handed sword animation is not really good,feels more like a knife.

Speaking of animations we have only one priority now and it is a troll. After troll there're other creatures to do and amount of work is really big so speaking of any kind of new animations for humans or elves or even orcs - yeah would be nice to have some new but it's FAR in the future.

[ask0901]

Edited some of the faction symbols. Think the originals was stunning, yet I prefer it when its a texture over the background color, and not clear, gradiented color. Also changed the Isengard, Lothlorien and Gundabad (with a custom one, made by me). What do you think?

[Alkar]

Edited some of the faction symbols. Think the originals was stunning, yet I prefer it when its a texture over the background color, and not clear, gradiented color. Also changed the Isengard, Lothlorien and Gundabad (with a custom one, made by me). What do you think?

I like the style, it's good.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Edited some of the faction symbols. Think the originals was stunning, yet I prefer it when its a texture over the background color, and not clear, gradiented color. Also changed the Isengard, Lothlorien and Gundabad (with a custom one, made by me). What do you think?

Besides from the Mordor (and partially Lothlorien) changes I'm not really a fan of em sorry.
If you ask Enpremi, he might send you the resources to make the flags (he made the resources so up to him).

[Vikus van de Merwe]

We reviewed and changed the faction symbols a couple of times already and me (and Mr.Jox and the team as well I suppose) don't like to do any further changes to them. The backgrounds actually aren't plain colors but there's no point of adding stronger detail to them since they are backgrounds and they should lead the focus to the symbols themselves.

[ask0901]

We reviewed and changed the faction symbols a couple of times already and me (and Mr.Jox and the team as well I suppose) don't like to do any further changes to them. The backgrounds actually aren't plain colors but there's no point of adding stronger detail to them since they are backgrounds and they should lead the focus to the symbols themselves.

Ok. Guess it's just a subjective thing Yet I think having the same style for all symbols makes better sence than having some with dimmed background, and others with quite clear/gradient colors (like the ones in ered luin and lindon). For me they look a bit out of style compared to the rest, but then again - thats just my opinion

But tell me if you'd like some concept for banners symbols or so - I do have quite a lot of time to do so, and I happily will But if you're done on that part, I understand! Keep up the good work!

[xalvissx]

I'd like to suggest some additional units for the Dwarves. These, I hope, will help somewhat alleviate the lack of mobility for the Dwarves, allow for more aggressive playstyle for the players:

EREBOR:

Rhovanion Outriders: The people of Rhovanion are excellent horsemen, sharing the same ancestry with the horselords of Rohan. Despite the destruction of the Kingdom of Rhovanion, there are still men who steadfastly cling to their homeland, forming the last resistance against the enemies ravaging their country. The Outriders are the eyes and ears of the few settlements left in Rhovanion, and are best suited for the kind of warfare practice in this barren land, trained with spears and javelins and relying on speed for defence. Although not as heavily armoured or as well equipped as many other cavalry, they are plentiful and have honed their skills hunting from horseback, and a man who can provide his own horse and gear is most welcome in any army. The Dwarves have long been maintaining contact with the people of Rhovanion, and these horsemen provide some much-needed mobility for a dwarven host, especially for an army traversing the open plains of the region.

Light, affordable melee cavalry, armed with spear, sword and shield, and carry two precursor javelins. Quite powerful on the charge, have moderate morale, damage, melee attack and defence, and are extremely fast, but with low armor and missile block change they are very vulnerable to heavier cavalry and archers. Serve in the support role for the heavier Dale mercenary cavalry. Abilities: Wedge Formation, Hide (Forest), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign.

Rhovanion Hirdmen: The personal retainers for the few remaining chiefs of Rhovanion, these swordsmen are well armed, loyal and hardy. They provided a sturdy backbone for the armies of Rhovanion in their day, and their sword is as much as the symbol of Rhovanion as the horse. Their kite shield, rimmed with steel and with a heavy boss of the same metal, affords good protection from most weapons. And unlike swordsmen of other nations they are trained to resist cavalry. Their skills and discipline are much lauded in the armies of Durin's folks, and as the Dwarves enlist the aid of their few mannish allies in Rhovanion, the Hirdmen are welcomed addition. They will fight to the death to protect their leaders, their towns and their families.

Light swordsmen, very versatile and can serve in almost any role on the battlefield. Have moderate armor, damage, charge bonus, melee attack and defence, and above average morale, speed (33) and HPs (115), and high mass, as well as , if possible, good bonus against cavalry (I don't know if swordsmen can be gifted with bonus against cavalry), but their abilities is truly what makes them versatile. Best at attacking enemy flank. Limited to three units. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign, or as a light swordsman unit for Dale. Abilities: Wedge Formation, Shield Wall, Expert Charge Defence, Double Time!, Hide (Forest), Disciplined.

ERED LUIN:

Caravan Guards: Eriador is long plagued by roaming bands of outlaws and orcs, and the Dwarves, finding their caravan increasingly vulnerable to attack, turn to Men for their skill in horsemanship. Honor-bound to their dwarven masters, they are richly rewarded with golds, allowing them to be much better equipped than they have any right to be under any other circumstances. Though they are no match for the elite cavalry of other peoples, they are more than adequate for protecting the flanks of a dwarven army, and their skill with spear and shield allows them to ride down even elite infantry in a well-timed charge.

Medium melee cavalry, armed with short spear, sword and shield. They have moderate stats, as middling as a cavalry units can be, with the exception of their armor, which is above average, and a good bonus against enemy cavalry. Abilities: Wedge Formation, Hide (Forest)

A suggested cavalry units for Ered Luin.
Eriador Freemen: Living in the untamed, wild land of Eriador is no small task, and the sparse settlements there usually find themselves vulnerable to attack from bandits,wild animals, and increasingly in the Third Age, Orcs. The townspeople, naturally, banded together to form a part-time militia to protect their home and hearth. Coming from all walks of life, equipped with all kinds of self-made shields, spears and armors, but with a courageous hearts of men defending their families they will not give up their freedom without a fight. In time, they even serve as auxiliaries to the Dwarves to support their meagre earning with a taste of dwarven gold.

Cheap, very fast (speed 40) and numerous (180 men) spearmen who can keep up with cavalry to support them in the fight. Come with a small shield and 2 precursor javelins, however have very low armor, low melee attack, damage, charge bonus and only moderate melee defence and HPs (90) and morale, so they cannot really stand up against heavy cavalry, but can still give them a bloody nose if serve as support for Caravan Guards, and can give low end cavalry units such as Northmen Scouts a run for their money. Abilities: Spear Wall, Double Times!, Hide (Forest), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue
As outside of my suggested Caravan Guards above I do not recall if I have ever seen any planned Ered Luin cavalry, so for a faction with only 1 middling cavalry units, the presence of fast spearmen infantry to keep up with them is crucial to prevent enemy cavalry from breaking through and attack your line from behind, so your superior dwarven infantry can do what they do best. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign.
Eriador Foresters: The forests of Eriador are vast, and there are untoldable wealth hidden within. Timber, wax, amber, resins, honey, furs...there is no reason to doubt why many men choose to live at the edge of civilization in remote camps. However, the forest contains more than just trees and wild animals, and sometimes the foresters find themselves beset by Orcs and bandits. These enemies force the woodsmen to work in a large groups, and they have grown quite adept at defending themselves from attack with their trusty axes and hunting dogs. They are a frequent trading partners of the Dwarves, and it is no wonder that the lords of the Blue Mountains usually enlist them in task requiring their expertise, such as tracking, scouting and chopping off Orc's heads.

Small units of 60 mens, armed with two handed axes. They also bring with them dogs, one for each of the models in the units except for the unit commander Have high armor-piercing damage, charge bonus and fast (speed 35), and moderate melee attack and defence, they can both serve as support for cavalry or as reserve, to be unless only in dire or advantageous situations, as their dogs are quite good against both infantry and cavalry. Nevertheless, they still have the problem of low armor and morale, and low HPs (90). Abilities: Wedge Formation (?), Double Times!, Hide (Forest), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign.

[Maestro1]

I haven't got the time to read it all but why should the Dwarven mobility problem not exist? I consider a great feature actually :p

[xalvissx]

:p, it is a trait, but it will led to very boring playstyle, such as the Dwarves in TW:WH. You know something is wrong when they start forming a box or camp the red line XD. Seriously though, these units are supposed to protect the flank of a dwarven army, buying time and allowing for their infantry to breaking through enemy line without worrying about enemy cavalry in their back, not winning the battle on their own. In Attila, if you do not have cavalry, the only thing you can do is making a box XD

[Commissar Caligula_]

I reckon it's a good idea, just 2 extra units for each faction to give them mobility, but make them cost more than a normal unit.
I think Ered Luin will get Elf units rather than Eriador units as their AOR/Mercenaries though, not sure.

Personally the lack of mobility for the Dwarfs in Warhammer ruins the faction for me, but then again I never minded using all Roman Legionnaires in Rome 2, so maybe it just comes down to the speed of the unit? Make them slower than a normal man, but not REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY slow.

[xalvissx]

I think it really depends on the speed of the units, and that's why cavalry are so important. But making an infantry unit that is fast enough to reposition, then get into formation to counter an unexpected flank from cavalry is...quite unrealistic to say the least XD

[You_Guess_Who]

Another thing I see that might be problematic is the lack of archers. Warhammer Dwarfs luckily have gunpowder, so they can afford to be shooty against enemy they cannot chase - however Tolkienverse Dwarves have no such luxury. And they're not known as good archers either way.

However, they are good craftsmen and engineers - so how about light Cheiroballistra? A small bolt shooter, with lots of engine per units (say 6 instead of the usual 4). They are the ones who forged the Black Arrow, so they should know about ballistics. In the movies, it was depicted to be shot from 4-limbed windlance ballista. I say give them the ability to craft more.

At least there's also a light infantry unit that are fast (for a dwarf) with rapid advance ability. Won't be able to chase cav, but can work as a mobile guard, running to wherever there's gap or flanking cav attack.

[Commissar Caligula_]

At the moment for Erebor the plan is for 1 lightly armoured dwarf archer, and 1 heavily armoured crossbowman plus a medium armoured axe thrower.
In LOTR was Saruman the only one who had access to blasting powder? Could we give them satchel charges/grenades such as in Warhammer or would that just be really dumb?

[xalvissx]

Well, you can make it so that the Dwarves can have AOR gunpowder units in Isengard after they conquer it (Grenadiers, Fire Lancer etc.)

[You_Guess_Who]

Could we give them satchel charges/grenades such as in Warhammer or would that just be really dumb?

Too Warhammer

[Alkar]

At the moment for Erebor the plan is for 1 lightly armoured dwarf archer, and 1 heavily armoured crossbowman plus a medium armoured axe thrower.
In LOTR was Saruman the only one who had access to blasting powder? Could we give them satchel charges/grenades such as in Warhammer or would that just be really dumb?

All Orcish factions were represented as having blasting/burning powder of some sort, though the movies popularized Saruman's use of it. In fact, the Orcs blew up the Pelennor wall surrounding Minas Tirith with it. It was also probably used to light the trenches with fire during the siege of Minas Tirith and in Moria by the Orcs of Moria. Some sort of burning substance was used as well as a burning material on the Mordor catapults when assaulting Minas Tirith (catapults which were highly effective at burning all wooden structures which caused the soldiers of Gondor much distress). Blasting/burning powder was thus quite universal among the orcish factions and was used for many reasons. I really do hope all this becomes a part of the mod. Dwarves are never mentioned as having the blasting powder, and in short it was considered an evil and/or cowardly invention.

Another thing I see that might be problematic is the lack of archers. Warhammer Dwarfs luckily have gunpowder, so they can afford to be shooty against enemy they cannot chase - however Tolkienverse Dwarves have no such luxury. And they're not known as good archers either way.

However, they are good craftsmen and engineers - so how about light Cheiroballistra? A small bolt shooter, with lots of engine per units (say 6 instead of the usual 4). They are the ones who forged the Black Arrow, so they should know about ballistics. In the movies, it was depicted to be shot from 4-limbed windlance ballista. I say give them the ability to craft more.

At least there's also a light infantry unit that are fast (for a dwarf) with rapid advance ability. Won't be able to chase cav, but can work as a mobile guard, running to wherever there's gap or flanking cav attack.

The Dwarves did not possess that windlance though, it was used by the men of Dale. Dwarves are represented as craftsmen only (i.e. working with metal and stone), not woodworkers. Not only that but they would have little interest in such weapons due to their interest in close-range warfare (defending their mines or attacking Orcish mines). I like the idea of them possessing crossbows and ballistae-type weapons though, if only for balancing purposes (perhaps it could be said as a backstory for mod purposes that as traders the Dwarves were interested in the newest and most powerful weaponry, but if that were the case, they might as well have some sort of blasting powder too - which I think was planned at one point in the mod anyway).

[xalvissx]

A small suggestion for cosmetic change for the Haradrim Swordsmen and Southron Lancers: They use one-handed sword and spear, with the other hand totally free and not holding anything, which does not make much sense. I suggest adding a small shield/buckler to their left hand.

Some other units suggestions for Arnor:

Lossoth Tribesmen: Ice Bay of Forochel is a harsh and unforgiving place, and strange tales are told about its mysterious inhabitants. A reclusive and hostile people, the Lossoth nevertheless still have some limited contact with outsiders, including Averdui, the last King of Arthedain, as well as the Rangers of the North. Though they rarely venture forth from their lands near the icy Cape of Forochel, some of their young men are enticed south by the warmer climes and the promise of adventure. They are unused to the massed open warfare of the southern regions, but their inate skills with javelins and spear, which are crucial in the frozen tundra of the north, can be easily translated to the battlefield.

Cheap skirmisher unit with smaller than normal unit size (120), armed with 5 javelins and spear. They have very low armor and low morale, lower than normal HPs (90), but have good ROF and decent accuracy, and are adequate in melee, provided that they do not rout. They have faster than normal speed (35), and are not affected by terrain, which give them an edge against unwary enemy units. Abilities: Focus Fire, Hide (Forest) Expert Charge Defence, Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. Limited to 4 units in Multiplayer. Can serve as AOR units for Arnor and mercenaries in the Forodwaith region in the campaign.

Lossoth Braves: The resource-scarce regions of Forodwaith prove to be very dangerous: Not only for the weather, but also rival tribes aim to steal all you have. It is therefore natural for a chieftain to surround himself with loyal and competent soldiers. Although the Lossoth do not have access to metal weapons, the skills and ferocity of these warriors more than make up for that deficiency. Armed with both bow and giant axe made from stone and animal parts, they prove to be a welcomed additions to any Lord of Arnor who calls for the support of the Lossoth.
Medium archers with bow and axe, and have a smaller unit size than normal archers (120 men). They have low armor but very high morale and HPs (115), have good ROF and accuracy, but with shorter range than most other archer units. Not affected by terrain, and are very good in close combat, though they have low armor-piercing damage on their weapon. Abilities: Wedge Formation, Focus Fire, Precision Shots, Barrage, Hide (Forest), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. Limited to 2 units in Multiplayer. Can serve as AOR units for Arnor and mercenaries in the Forodwaith region in the campaign.

Hobbit Slingers : Hobbits are peaceful people, but with natural keen eyesight they are particularly adept with missile weapons, from a simple throwing stone to bow and arrows. Although they are not formally trained in combat, and most of their practice come from hunting wild animals and keeping outlaws away from the Shire, in times of serious threat they may be called up to defend against a raiding party or worse. Their cudgel and sling may not be the most sophisticated weapons, they can still be surprisingly effective in the quick hand of a Hobbit.

Cheap, fast (speed 40) and numerous slingers (200 men per units). Have decent accuracy, range and ROF, and have abundant ammo (20), but have very low damage with both ranged and melee weapons, almost no charge bonus and low melee attack and defence, as well as low HPs(60) and morale. Serve mainly in the support role, as their sling can reduce the speed of units, and as meat shield, as their large unit size can tangle up a charge, even from heavy cavalry. Abilities: Focus Fire, Hide (Everywhere), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign.

Hobbit Shirrifs: Shirrifs are a sort of law enforcement agency and militia for the Shire. The position of Shirriff was a voluntary honor based on some ancient encounters,and their sole purpose is protecting the Shire from tresspassers. Normally they do not carry any weaponry with them, however during these troubled time it is only wise to have something more than a stick to protect your home.

Cheap, fast (speed 40) and numerous spearmen (200 men per units). Have low stats all across the board, but higher melee attack, melee defence, armor, damage and charge bonus than Hobbit Slingers. Although armed with spear and light shield they cannot really deal with heavy cavalry, but mainly act as support for cavalry and speedbum for enemy units. Abilities: Hide (Everywhere), Ignore Terrain, Resistant to Fatigue. They can also serve as AOR Units or Mercenaries in the campaign.

[Maetharin]

In response to the Livestream/Mocap announcement, may I suggest you also look at Human sword/spear and shield animations?
COMBAT READY as well as actual combat animations, especially some Attack animations which don't stupidly expose shield users to counterattack.
I think Gondor and Dale units would highly benefit from this!

[Mr.Jox]

I believe you can suggest some animations in real time however it depends whether animators will consider doing it.

[HavaGanda]

My suggestion as I have seen that "The Shire" has been removed as one of the original factions but other, smaller and more unimportant factions like "Vale of Anduin" are still remaining. Here is my suggestion for a unit selection and possible faction abilities

Low Tier Units:
Hobbit Farmers (Absolute chaff using polearm farming implements, equivalent to a slightly more powerful mob but with a purchase price)
Bounders (Absolute archer chaff but with a decent, short range shooting ability)
Hobbit Housewives (Small number morale damaging light infantry)
Dog Handlers (Standard Hobbit Dog Handlers)
Bree Militia ( Reliable militia grade warriors with a high asking price for what they are worth)
Pony Riders (Slow, weak light cavalry in high numbers)
Hobbit Field Chefs (Morale Increasing infantry with average stats and low numbers)

Mid Tier Units:
Shirrifs *clubs* (Low quality medium infantry with no shields)
Shirrifs *greatclubs* (Low quality anti Armour medium infantry with two handed weapons)
Shirrif Constables (Reliable heavy infantry with shields and swords but lower numbers)
Mounted Shirrifs (Shirrifs with slow cavalry, still no shields)
Hobbit Archers (Very high quality, average range light archers)
Breeland Guardsmen (Reliable Heavy Spear Infantry)
Buckland Spearmen (Low quality, average morale spearmen with farming implements and spears)
Breeland Patrol (Reliable medium melee cavalry)
Long Cleeve Lancers (low quality, average morale, medium shock cavalry)

High Tier:
Battlin' Brandybucks (High quality super heavy hobbit infantry with swords and shields)
Tookish Hunters (High Quality medium archers with long range and incredible accuracy)
Barnaboras Riders (Very fast, heavy hobbit cavalry riding horses with clubs and no shields with incredible morale and health)
Knights of the Shire (Slow, super heavy hobbit cavalry riding ponies with swords and shields wearing Gondorian and Rohirrim armour, great stats all round, very expensive)
Knights of the Shire *lances* (^ but with lances)
Dunedain (Simply Dunedain, same stats)

All Hobbit units that are not archers or cavalry are armed with a single precursor rock (Javelin with the texture replaced as a rock)

Faction Features:
Excessive Breeding: All units have 10% more warriors
Units Replenish 50% faster

Natural Gardeners: Farms produce 20% more income

Isolationists: No diplomatic relations except with Arnor
Cannot ally except with Arnor