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Thread: Prostitution

  1. #21
    Cyrene's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    really interested how everyone here is whining about legalization of prostitution without thinking about it's Health Consequences..

  2. #22

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Prostitution is illegal for two reasons basically, religion not being the main one.

    #1 - Disease, this was a big real problem, these days it can be greatly mitigated and is no longer a valid reason.

    #2 - Women. I personally believe the real driving force against prostitution is women. They don't want their husbands going elsewhere for various reasons beyond even fidelity.

    The second I find interesting because there seems to be conflict in feminist groups over sex. You have the radical feminists, which basically promote a lesbian anti-male ideology who are against prostitution or even free sexual expression (with men). You also have "sex positive" feminists, who think sex needs to be stigmatized in general and would be for legalization.

    I have a friend who is a worker in the sex industry. No prostitution or porn just photos and such and she makes a insane amount of money doing it.
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Prostitution

    really interested how everyone here is whining about legalization of prostitution without thinking about it's Health Consequences..
    Guess we should ban kissing as well.
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciciro View Post
    The entertainment, food, etc industry is largely about satisfying the short term desire of the consumer rather than making any long term achievement, goal or progress.
    In some cases, sure. Let's look at food. We need food to survive, so clearly there's an important existential desire here for food. However, food also stimulates and can give pleasure. If one creates new recipes and types of food, then that benefits many people in the long term. If one however has a profession of merely handing out food, like at at a fast food chain, then this is an example of a job that is just mindlessly serving clients for their individual short term needs (in this way worse than prostitution in terms of satisfaction, since at least in prostitution the worker has a degree of control and creativity). I wouldn't really want my relatives to be long term workers at a fast food chain either.

    Ultimately, my reasoning rest upon granting more thoughtful and creative pursuits a higher status than those which are more basic in nature. This is another discussion in itself however.
    Last edited by Time Commander Bob; June 03, 2014 at 02:09 PM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Prostitution is illegal for two reasons basically, religion not being the main one.

    #1 - Disease, this was a big real problem, these days it can be greatly mitigated and is no longer a valid reason.

    #2 - Women. I personally believe the real driving force against prostitution is women. They don't want their husbands going elsewhere for various reasons beyond even fidelity.

    The second I find interesting because there seems to be conflict in feminist groups over sex. You have the radical feminists, which basically promote a lesbian anti-male ideology who are against prostitution or even free sexual expression (with men). You also have "sex positive" feminists, who think sex needs to be stigmatized in general and would be for legalization.

    ...

    The second seems a very shaky claim without any basis or foundation though. It doesn't explain 10 000 years of patriachal societies where prostitution was always a profession of legal and social outcasts while women were not even considered independant legal persons. Hiring a prostitute was even considered very cool while being one except for a very select few high standing courtesans landed you in the gutter. Just consider that simple romance got girls killed by their own family for much of human history by many human cultures and even today in a lot of third world countries while sexual abuse of women is entirely okay.

    I think you try to push too much a personal idea here, ignoring vital circumstances and history
    Last edited by Mangalore; June 03, 2014 at 02:13 PM.
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  6. #26
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    The Matriarchy works to keep women from being sexually active because other women putting out drives down their value as a commodity.

    The Patriarchy just doesn't want their daughters dating before marriage. On the other hand we will marry them off at the first opportunity.

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    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; June 03, 2014 at 02:28 PM.
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Prostitution

    It's rather laughable that atheists wish to discuss sin and morality within the context of prostitution since they don't believe in God. Why bother? Isn't that all meaningless?

  8. #28

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangalore View Post
    The second seems a very shaky claim without any basis or foundation though. It doesn't explain 10 000 years of patriachal societies where prostitution was always a profession of legal and social outcasts while women were not even considered independant legal persons. Hiring a prostitute was even considered very cool while being one except for a very select few high standing courtesans landed you in the gutter. Just consider that simple romance got girls killed by their own family for much of human history by many human cultures and even today in a lot of third world countries while sexual abuse of women is entirely okay.

    I think you try to push too much a personal idea here, ignoring vital circumstances and history
    Well thats actually my point. Once women started to get political power of sorts, prostitution became less acceptable for men because of their wives. Its women having power that drives the illegality of prostitution.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  9. #29
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    It's rather laughable that atheists wish to discuss sin and morality within the context of prostitution since they don't believe in God. Why bother? Isn't that all meaningless?
    no, it just means that we focus on the human

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    You don't go there for finding partner or love, you go for sex. It's more like porn.
    My point was that finding a sex partner with consent and not financial coercion is preferable
    but one has to look at the reasons for the demand and supply to make this possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    Guess we should ban kissing as well.
    who offers kissing for money? That's far too dangerous with all the diseases around.
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  10. #30
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Should be legal and thus we can do better at eliminating vile things like pimps. In any case in any state where you legally watch porn - that is essentially pay to have consenting adults to have sex so you can watch - why you cannot also just simply also pay consenting adults to have sex with you is illogical...

    But more broadly you sell yourself and your talents everyday you go to a job so what wrong if you sell sex as long as it your own choice.
    This i agree with. Prostitution itself isn't so bad in my view as long as it's by two consenting adults. The damage comes from the extras that are used in the 'illegal' world of it- the Pimps, The drugs, the sex trafficking. If legalized, these things while perhaps not completely dying out, would be much diminished, and indeed the prostitutes general quality of life on the whole would be better, being given real legal protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    It's rather laughable that atheists wish to discuss sin and morality within the context of prostitution since they don't believe in God. Why bother? Isn't that all meaningless?
    You can have morality without god mt friend (and vice versa). Especially when considering different religions have different ideas of gods and morality, and some don't even have gods (Looking at you Buddhism- yet we can't claim they lack morality can we?)

    What's more morality is something that also varies from person to person depending upon their own interpretations, goals, beliefs and lifestyles. It's subjective. So definitely not merely the prerogative of God.
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Prostitution itself isn't so bad in my view as long as it's by two consenting adults.
    From the (traditional)male point of view we spend our entire lives paying to get laid. Buy drinks. Buy dinner. Pay for the movie. Pay for the mortgage. Pay for (insert thing we pay for). You give the prostitute cash to buy her own drinks, that way she's free to leave when it's over. In fact prostitutes could be seen to be doing a BETTER job of supporting themselves than a housewife.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciabhán View Post
    From the (traditional)male point of view we spend our entire lives paying to get laid. Buy drinks. Buy dinner. Pay for the movie. Pay for the mortgage. Pay for (insert thing we pay for). You give the prostitute cash to buy her own drinks, that way she's free to leave when it's over. In fact prostitutes could be seen to be doing a BETTER job of supporting themselves than a housewife.
    Personally I think thats a bit too cynical. Depends on who you marry I guess, but my cow gave me milk for free for a LONG time before she got anything of monetary value in return.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    My point was that finding a sex partner with consent and not financial coercion is preferable
    but one has to look at the reasons for the demand and supply to make this possible
    Huh?! Do you really think it's better to find a girlfriend/boyfriend solely for the purpose of having sex?

  14. #34

    Default Re: Prostitution

    The people who wave away the morality of prostitution probably have never read any books on the subject, or journal articles. A good portion of the prostitutes are not high priced call girls, but drug addicted homeless youth of both sexes as well as a portion being a part of slavery rings. You're doing a grave injustice to those folks when you insist that prostitution is rather harmless.

    I think if you'd read about pornography you'd also see that "escorting" is a routine aspect of the porn actresses lives in order to maintain their drug habits. And that the longer they are it becomes a really monstrous issue with a rapid decline in their looks due to methamphetamine.
    ...
    Regarding atheists bringing the "sin" aspect to issues in the EMM, I just don't get the interest unless it's a new day and a new opportunity to create conflict. It would be like a fundamentalist Muslim who despises an orthodox Jew asking them daily about some theological issue, then arguing with them about it. How very insipid and droll. Aren't there better debates we can have that are not so formulaic?
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 03, 2014 at 08:12 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Von Hespburg View Post
    This i agree with. Prostitution itself isn't so bad in my view as long as it's by two consenting adults. The damage comes from the extras that are used in the 'illegal' world of it- the Pimps, The drugs, the sex trafficking. If legalized, these things while perhaps not completely dying out, would be much diminished, and indeed the prostitutes general quality of life on the whole would be better, being given real legal protection.
    Exactly, so its really not much worse than any other kind of business.

    AqD said just what I was thinking: If paying for sex is bad, then what does that make people who just like to ? Going to the party and getting a one night stand?, do you think people care more about sexual protection then?

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision
    A good portion of the prostitutes are not high priced call girls, but drug addicted homeless youth of both sexes as well as a portion being a part of slavery rings. You're doing a grave injustice to those folks when you insist that prostitution is rather harmless.
    Do you have any numbers to share with us? I'm pretty sure that portion is a small minority rather.
    Last edited by Sire Brenshar; June 03, 2014 at 08:13 PM.
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  16. #36

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sire Brenshar View Post
    Exactly, so its really not much worse than any other kind of business.

    AqD said just what I was thinking: If paying for sex is bad, then what does that make people who just like to ? Going to the party and getting a one night stand?, do you think people care more about sexual protection then?



    Do you have any numbers to share with us? I'm pretty sure that portion is a small minority rather.
    You could start here:
    http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/07/humantraf...trev/index.pdf

    The majority of my life has been spent in youth ministry. What do you suppose homeless youth do in order to live on the streets? Drug addiction and prostitution go hand-in-hand, and often they're literally recruited by pimps in order to have a "safe" place to crash. There's any number of documentaries on the subject.

    It's even a bigger problem with homosexual youth, particularly males due to STDs and risky sex. IV drug use often follows.

    Or do you think it's all about the cottage business of bored homemakers and college aged women catering to the rich? This isn't some fantasy where every prostitute is clean, drug-free, and free of illness, but the opposite with scabies, STDs like chllamydia, Trichomoniasis, diverse fungal infections, skin disorders of every kind even ongoing impetigo, genital warts, etc. If I showed you a medical picture of the slime within the vaginal canal of a person with Trichomonas you'd be completely repulsed by prostitution.

    If you are crazy enough to think that prostitution is a victimless crime, look up Lee Jeffries art project on prostitution and the homeless. It's heartbreaking stuff seeing young people literally falling apart due to meth or heroin addiction.
    http://www.metronewsday.com/news/827...d-poverty.html
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 03, 2014 at 08:28 PM.

  17. #37
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    ^ these are the reasons why i am against prostitution
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  18. #38
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    The people who wave away the morality of prostitution probably have never read any books on the subject, or journal articles. A good portion of the prostitutes are not high priced call girls, but drug addicted homeless youth of both sexes as well as a portion being a part of slavery rings. You're doing a grave injustice to those folks when you insist that prostitution is rather harmless.
    They're drug addicted and homeless and part of slavery rings exactly because the current society refuse to accept them and the government refuses to help them.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    I think if you'd read about pornography you'd also see that "escorting" is a routine aspect of the porn actresses lives in order to maintain their drug habits. And that the longer they are it becomes a really monstrous issue with a rapid decline in their looks due to methamphetamine.
    Do you think it'd still be the same if the society and everyone around are openly warm to them and being acceptive and supportive of what they do?
    Last edited by AqD; June 03, 2014 at 08:30 PM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Prostitution

    Prostitution, unless it's of the slavery variety(which I doubt many support), rarely leads to drug addiction. Rather the other way around. That argument isn't particularly valid. They'd fall apart due to drug addiction anyway and go looking for other ways to support the habit.

  20. #40
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Prostitution

    so you think legalization of prostitution and drugs would end drug addiction and poverty/abuse?
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