Rally Point - Episode 20: Free, new content and upcoming DLC announced!

[baptistus]

For those who keep whining for improved politics - I would like nothing more than to see this but I doubt if CA would really take the time to implement a whole new feature that might completely change the character of the game so long after release. Ultimately they'll chop up this game's political system as a failed experiment, something to keep in mind for the next TW game, but the game's current political system and UI are probably hard-coded in stone and cannot be changed.

I don't ask for a total new political system, I ask for an improvement (as a lot of players). And I can give to you one very simple example:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-the-politics

CA should create new "effect_bundle_key" to the "db-->effect_bundles_to_effects_junctions" to connect/link effects to the % of the senate/nobles concil you have to your party.
With these keys, we (modders) should be able to create some good mods for the politic system even if it change anything to the politic itself, but only by adding a range of bonus/malus.

For example, we will have "effect_bundle_key" like
rom_concil_very_low (between 0 and 19% of the concil/senate)
rom_concil_low (between 20 and 39% )
rom_concil_medium (between 40 and 59%)
rom_concil_high (between 60 and 79% )
rom_concil_very_high (between 80 and 100%)

So we could add bonus/malus to each of these "effect_bundle_key". So the player will need to take care about the politic if he wants a specific bonus/malus ect...

There is tons of possible very simple ideas like that to improve the ACTUAL political system. The same with the civil war
Players and modders already give to CA a lot of ideas.
But instead of listen them, they made a new faction and a new culture pack. Do rome 2 have a lack of factions ? even the haters will say "no". So why to continue to work on one of the positive point of rome 2 instead of to work on the negative points of rome 2 which COULD be improve?...

[Noif de Bodemloze]

What are those Steam Codes at 11:39?

6C7KE-9EKQ0-E4G2A
6C7Z7-DGYCT-0RDAV

Sure ^_^.

It's two Hannibal at the Gates codes, they were meant to be in the background of the episode, but due to technical reasons never made it in.

-Will

[GoTW Kubee]

Let's try to look at this logically - if the said factions were not already in the game, every currently unplayable faction would simply be a black hole in the campaign map, unable to be invaded or interacted with until CA decided to release said faction. It HAS to be in the game so that everyone will ultimately have the same version of the game for MP purposes. This has been stated time and time again, I for one love when CA releases new factions just so those who play with locked factions on mods can finally get an understanding of this once the said factions no longer work for them.

What? Where in my post did I say that these factions weren't in the original game? All I think is that it is incredibly lame to have to pay to play as factions which are essentially cut content + a few extra units.

P.S. your attitude towards people who are giving CA constructive suggestions on how to improve their game (i.e. calling it 'whining') and taking pleasure in people not being able to play their campaigns without having to pay an extra £6 is disgusting.

[crawe1]

I don't see how being made to pay in order to play as factions which were already in the base game is pleasant or, given CA's track record with regards to DLC, a surprise. You do realise you could already play them with mods, right?

Yeah, and I have been for the past six months. That doesn't stop it from being nice to have them officially in the game with their own culture. Agreed. They SHOULD have been in the original game. But they were't and that's that. Now they are - and for that small mercy I am thankful. Get over it.

[Darios]

This logic is sort of twisted. Why couldn't all the factions be playable upon release to begin with?

CA is a development company, not a mod team. They have to make money in order to be successful and to continue giving us more game content. Every patch and Free LC that you get is the result of the money that people have spent into buying the game and paying for DLC. I don't want to sound like krisslanza but if every faction had been playable upon release then the game's shelf-life would have expired months ago and CA would have had no incentive to patch the game. I have mixed feelings about the current system of video game marketing but that's the spirit of the age - on one hand it's annoying that by the time this is over I probably will have forked over another 70 euro for R2's DLC, but on the other hand - that means that R2 is slowly becoming a very deep game with lots of mini-campaigns, unique factions, and cultural groups.

[Templar Knight]

I must say, it makes me happy that I will be able to play as the Dacians for free.

[crawe1]

I am very curious to see what people would like to see next. Personally my hopes are up for Cimmeria and/or Massalia.

I have a feeling it will be Armenia, though I would also like to see the 'hybrid' Greek factions, such as Cimmeria and Massalia. Also, I still think there will be a Britannia DLC at some point.

[Butan]

Fixed version:

They have to make money in order to be successful make even more money and to continue giving us more game content overpriced candies. Every patch and Free LC that you get is the result of the money that people have spent unlocking content of unfinished game into buying the game and paying for DLC an unfinished game who progressively unlock content. I don't want to sound like krisslanza but if every faction had been playable upon release then the game's shelf-life would have expired would have been great months ago and CA would have had no incentive to patch the game no cows to milk. I have mixed feelings about the current system of video game marketing but that's the spirit of the age - on one hand it's annoying that by the time this is over I probably will have forked over another 70 euro for R2's DLC, but on the other hand - that means that R2 is slowly becoming a very deep game with lots of mini-campaigns, unique factions, and cultural groups a finished and complete video game.

Just wanted to add my own point of view on the matter...

[Choki]

no matter how many patches and DLC you released. The game will remain the worst and ugliest of all

[baptistus]

CA is a development company, not a mod team. They have to make money in order to be successful and to continue giving us more game content.

they can make all the culture pack dlc they want if they give to the modders the possibiliy to mod the political system, and if they help them a little.
they can make all the culture pack dlc they want if instead of a useless free lc, they made a good free lc (as the seasons and wonders free lc). for example a free lc about the politcs, the civil war or the diplomacy (and trust me, it is not as difficult as they say it is)
And to finish, I bought all the DLC ...

[ABH2]

CA is a development company, not a mod team. They have to make money in order to be successful and to continue giving us more game content. Every patch and Free LC that you get is the result of the money that people have spent into buying the game and paying for DLC. I don't want to sound like krisslanza but if every faction had been playable upon release then the game's shelf-life would have expired months ago and CA would have had no incentive to patch the game. I have mixed feelings about the current system of video game marketing but that's the spirit of the age - on one hand it's annoying that by the time this is over I probably will have forked over another 70 euro for R2's DLC, but on the other hand - that means that R2 is slowly becoming a very deep game with lots of mini-campaigns, unique factions, and cultural groups.

A few fundamental flaws in your thought process here. Yes, DLC is fine. If its new content, most people don't object to an extra cost. CiG and HaTG served as new content to me. Stuff already in the game on day 1 that you are paying for them to unlock does not. CA does not need to charge to create content that is already there in the game. That's basically holding content already paid for at ransom.

And it's irrational to tell people to be happy they get to pay for something they already have in game or could unlock on their own in a few seconds. Or which modders have already done better.

A new campaign + new features = reasonable DLC. That's extra work they did on top of the original game. Cutting up of content already in game = charging people twice for the same product.

So, like I said...if this content added some new mechanics such as real piracy, it still wouldn't be worth the cost to me, but at the least it would be worthwhile. As is, they are just giving people something that could have and should have been given on day 1.

I'm fine with CA seeking profit. For new content.

[Darios]

I think that a lot of you guys are blaming the wrong people for the state of R2. CA probably does little more than to receive orders, a budget, and a date for completion from the suits at SEGA. It's all simply the result of corporate capitalism and the out-of-control culture of profiting that the quality of computer games has sunk so low today. I'm sure that CA employees are always checking out our complaints/hopes/wishes on the forums and they relay this information over to SEGA who either gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down over implementing it into the game. It is what it is, they're the ones with the money. Feel free to boycott something you don't like. I wouldn't have purchased Beasts of War had it been a free giveaway.

After experiencing mods for other Warscape engine games such as ETW and NTW, I highly doubt if R2 will ever reach a point of modability that will allow modders to create deep comprehensive mods like those for RTW and M2TW. Rome 2 is extremely hard-coded...

[GoTW Kubee]

Yeah, and I have been for the past six months. That doesn't stop it from being nice to have them officially in the game with their own culture. Agreed. They SHOULD have been in the original game. But they were't and that's that. Now they are - and for that small mercy I am thankful. Get over it.

Get over what? I stopped playing the campaign many months ago and only log in to play MP from time to time. So this hardly affects me apart from giving some of my opponents 3 extra factions to use. Having said that, it doesn't stop me having an opinion on the matter, nor me voicing said opinion. After all, what would the point be of this forum or forums in general if you couldn't post what you were thinking? You yourself even admit that I'm right that the factions 'SHOULD have been in the original game'. So I don't see what the problem is.

CA is a development company, not a mod team. They have to make money in order to be successful and to continue giving us more game content. Every patch and Free LC that you get is the result of the money that people have spent into buying the game and paying for DLC. I don't want to sound like krisslanza but if every faction had been playable upon release then the game's shelf-life would have expired months ago and CA would have had no incentive to patch the game. I have mixed feelings about the current system of video game marketing but that's the spirit of the age - on one hand it's annoying that by the time this is over I probably will have forked over another 70 euro for R2's DLC, but on the other hand - that means that R2 is slowly becoming a very deep game with lots of mini-campaigns, unique factions, and cultural groups.

Sorry, but I've got to disagree with you here. There is nothing to suggest that any of money they've made through DLCs from after R2's release has gone into making R2 a 'very deep game' if you didn't think it already was on release. Yes they have tweaked AI and balance but they have not improved, refined or reworked any existing flawed mechanics. So apart from being better balanced and more stable overall, it's hardly fair to say the game is becoming any 'deeper'. Being able to play as multiple factions is cool, but it doesn't really make the game 'deep' when there are so many problems with it in the first place.

[ABH2]

I think that a lot of you guys are blaming the wrong people for the state of R2. CA probably does little more than to receive orders, a budget, and a date for completion from the suits at SEGA. It's all simply the result of corporate capitalism and the out-of-control culture of profiting that the quality of computer games has sunk so low today. I'm sure that CA employees are always checking out our complaints/hopes/wishes on the forums and they relay this information over to SEGA who either gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down over implementing it into the game. It is what it is, they're the ones with the money. Feel free to boycott something you don't like. I wouldn't have purchased Beasts of War had it been a free giveaway.

I could see this for the release, but is SEGA really sitting there micromanaging these minor updates and patches that the team is already working? I sort of doubt that. It actually kind of contradicts your first point. SEGA sets the budget/deadlines, but that doesn't sound like micromanagement of game specifics. I would imagine SEGA perhaps sets some general guidelines and provides input.

Frankly, I don't care which company is responsible as a player. I haven't and won't buy a cultural pack that includes no new features. If its SEGA, well, they now own CA and that isn't changing CA is a part of that corporation so they might as well be one in the same. I don't get the need for a distinction.

DLC means I'm paying for something extra that they spent time working on. Not stuff already in game. I suppose the units may be 'new,' but they are typically just copy and pasted versions of other units in game already. Just recolored in the most bland ways. They wouldn't be worth buying.

[Darios]

So apart from being better balanced and more stable overall, it's hardly fair to say the game is becoming any 'deeper'. Being able to play as multiple factions is cool, but it doesn't really make the game 'deep' when there are so many problems with it in the first place.

I agree with you for the most part, but I will give a little example that CA does ultimately give a about our opinions. I have spent the past few months complaining how every non-Germanic barbarian faction in the game (including the Illyrians, Dacians, and Thracians) were considered Gauls. I started 2-3 forum threads on the topic posting scholarly papers and archaeological evidence attesting that at the most, Celts formed a very thin military aristocracy over some Illyrian and Thracian tribes during the brief period of Celtic migration to Galatia. I have noticed CA employees reading my threads in the past and they obviously agreed to the point where there will now be a separate Daco-Thracian culture for Balkans tribes. That, in my opinion does help with immersion and makes the game "deeper."

[ABH2]

Entitled implies that people are asking for something they haven't earned. People bought this game. I mean, I'm not going to complain about free content (Pydna, Getae). People did BUY this game though. Many pre-ordered it based on false advertising and faith in CA. It's not entitled to feel duped and to complain when, nine months and 12 patches later, you still have key components of the game which are BROKEN and they are charging to unlock content already in game.

If you ask me, CA feels entitled. Entitled to fanboys to just give them money for doing no extra work and for generally ignoring their feedback. But unlike the entitled users you are talking about, CA's livelihood depends on all this. For me, it's just a game. So, may some people can be milked out of money endlessly. I'm a firm capitalist and I try to be an intelligent consumer.

I agree with you for the most part, but I will give a little example that CA does ultimately give a about our opinions. I have spent the past few months complaining how every non-Germanic barbarian faction in the game (including the Illyrians, Dacians, and Thracians) were considered Gauls. I started 2-3 forum threads on the topic posting scholarly papers and archaeological evidence attesting that at the most, Celts formed a very thin military aristocracy over some Illyrian and Thracian tribes during the brief period of Celtic migration to Galatia. I have noticed CA employees reading my threads in the past and they obviously agreed to the point where there will now be a separate Daco-Thracian culture for Balkans tribes. That, in my opinion does help with immersion and makes the game "deeper."

I do agree they listen some of the time and may be listening a bit more than we currently know. Again, I've seen people calling for this sort of content though perhaps with a few features added. I don't think they are quite as responsive as they could be.

[Sebidee]

Thumbs up for an awesome episode of rally point!

[Anna_Gein]

I think that a lot of you guys are blaming the wrong people for the state of R2. CA probably does little more than to receive orders, a budget, and a date for completion from the suits at SEGA. It's all simply the result of corporate capitalism and the out-of-control culture of profiting that the quality of computer games has sunk so low today. I'm sure that CA employees are always checking out our complaints/hopes/wishes on the forums and they relay this information over to SEGA who either gives a thumbs up or a thumbs down over implementing it into the game. It is what it is, they're the ones with the money. Feel free to boycott something you don't like. I wouldn't have purchased Beasts of War had it been a free giveaway.

I think it is you who is blaming the wrong people.

CA is in no way an independent identity from SEGA. They are merely the subdivision of SEGA responsible of the TW industry. I bet CA studio director is even an employed of SEGA. CA is not simply recieving order concerning their project : they are responsible of it, they decide what the game will feature, what next game will be release. They are responsible to check the quality of the project and to communicate to SEGA if it won't be ready in time, probably with a new estimated date.

Think to second about it : of what use would be all the managers present in the game credits if SEGA had an hordes of people to manage the project. This is utter nonsense. Maybe comparable to the game nonsense.

[maexim]

Shame to CA, i will definitevely not buy their next game...

[krisslanza]

I think it is you who is blaming the wrong people.

CA is in no way an independent identity from SEGA. They are merely the subdivision of SEGA responsible of the TW industry. I bet CA studio director is even an employed of SEGA. CA is not simply recieving order concerning their project : they are responsible of it, they decide what the game will feature, what next game will be release. They are responsible to check the quality of the project and to communicate to SEGA if it won't be ready in time, probably with a new estimated date.

Think to second about it : of what use would be all the managers present in the game credits if SEGA had an hordes of people to manage the project. This is utter nonsense. Maybe comparable to the game nonsense.

Good luck ever getting a deadline extension as a publisher. It's incredibly rare for that to ever happen, as shown by the fact it practically made front page news that Watch Dogs was delayed.
It's like getting a project assigned at school, and then before its due, you have to go to your teacher and say, "Hey, I need like, an extra month or two to finish it."

I doubt that'd work in that situation, and in a business setting, its even less likely because that request also includes: "We also need the budget for those extra months." which for a AAA game, is somewhere in the millions or tens of millions per month.