AMAZING! Reconstructions of CONSTANTINOPLE

[sumskilz]

It's not done for the sake of wiping out history, it's done for pragmatism.

If anything it was in their interests to capitalize on that history to add to their own legitimacy, like taking the title Kayser-i Rum.

[Cyclops]

I don't think it's out of the ordinary for pre-modern conquerors to demolish or alter antiquated buildings. The Spanish did that with the Al Hambra and the Mosque of Cordoba; they tore down sections of the complexes and replaced them with their own Gothic style buildings. This is only a "crime" today because of the concept of World Heritage, something that did not exist back then. If a building was considered ugly, useless, or worn out, it was replaced. It's not done for the sake of wiping out history, it's done for pragmatism.

I disagree a tiny bit. I think mostly buildings were viewed pragmatically witha tiuny religious or political aspect "oh look a big church, turn it into a mosque and we'll make our point". I also think people expected conquerors to do as they liked. Cruelty might be deplored hut it was expected.

However the Romans preserved certain antique buildings (IIRC Romulus' hut), and there's other examples of "political" demolitions-I think Akenahten's temple to Aten was destroyed by the "old guard" on his death as much because of the poilitical upheaval it represented as the religious turmoil (the two being inextricably linked in a theocracy).

I also think the Ottomans were aware of the ERE heritage present in Konstantinoplis and may have made political decisions about building their palaces in a new location.

However its clear they were mostly pragmatic about building use when they took the city. The Hagia Sophia was defiled by soldiers with horses but reconditioned by the Sultan because it was a useful (as well as stunning) building. Others were likely pulled down because the land was wanted for something else, or the last ERE emperors let it rot because they were too busy blinding and assasinating one another and inviting the Turks into Europe.

[Blaze86420]

I agree, when I said pragmatism I meant advancing religious prestige and legitimacy as well. Of course, when the Ottomans converted the Hagia Sophia to a mosque they didn't do it just so they could save themselves the trouble of building another (they built many, some rivalling the Hagia Sophia). They did it to symbolize Islam's victory over Christendom (propaganda purposes).

[Stavroforos]

I agree, when I said pragmatism I meant advancing religious prestige and legitimacy as well. Of course, when the Ottomans converted the Hagia Sophia to a mosque they didn't do it just so they could save themselves the trouble of building another (they built many, some rivalling the Hagia Sophia). They did it to symbolize Islam's victory over Christendom (propaganda purposes).

I'm not sure if it's because the interior layout of all Ottoman imperial mosques in Istanbul is identical, but none of them really rivals Hagia Sophia. Not trying to downplay how beautiful they are, and I think that their simpler and more colorful interiors are more pleasing than the dreary atmosphere of a Byzantine church.

[PointOfViewGun]

I think what makes the difference is the extensive use of marbles in Haghia Sophia.

[Stavroforos]

Personally I felt Hagia Sophia had a more complex interior and was on a grander scale than the mosques, which were all just a single open space. The exterior of Hagia Sophia is hard to compare to that of the mosques because of all the buttressing that has been added over the years as support for the structure and because of its horrid colors, but I'd say visually at least (because I think Hagia Sophia is still larger than the imperial mosques) the mosques definitely do rival it in beauty and style, and with the various small semi-domes they even seem nicer at times.

[neoptolemos]

Well Stav Hagia Sophia has been butchered over the years so the spectacle you are seeing it is by far a diminished one.
The mosques on the other hand (no matter how beautiful they are indeed) are far more recent and they haven't suffered the same fate as HS.
Thus the comparison is by definition unfair.
What matters is the cultural significance of the great church something even the builders of mosques acknowledge by copying its essential elements

[Stavroforos]

I'm sure if all the interior of the church and its mosaics were preserved it would be more impressive in the interior, but as it is now you're right, it's a bit meh. On the exterior though, I have to say that while on scale the Hagia Sophia is superior, the styling of Ottoman classical mosques is as appealing (to me, at least), if not more so.

[PointOfViewGun]

It's rather nonsensical to say that Haghia Sophia have been butchered. Today, it illustrates both Islamic and Christian culture inside a single building. No other building can do that in such a grand scale. It wouldn't matter if there was a larger mosque because of that. Haghia Sophia was the largest imperial mosque back then anyways. Süleymaniye Mosque comes the second being only 2 meters shorter. It was completed in 1558.

[neoptolemos]

I'm sure if all the interior of the church and its mosaics were preserved it would be more impressive in the interior, but as it is now you're right, it's a bit meh. On the exterior though, I have to say that while on scale the Hagia Sophia is superior, the styling of Ottoman classical mosques is as appealing (to me, at least), if not more so.

Indeed, just imagine the plundering of the valuable leturgic ornaments (mostly done by the crusaders), the huge damages of the mosaics and paintings (mostly done by the Ottomans) HS has suffered in order to be at this status.
Also the surrounding buildings in HS do not help at all in its exterior therefore I am pretty sure you are right about the mosques

[Stavroforos]

Outside of some tombs and syntrivans, the outside of Hagia Sophia is ruined by the buildings which have been added to its sides, but these were erected to buttress the walls of the church and to help keep it intact. Perhaps without those additions, the church may have collapsed.

[Blaze86420]

The Hagia Sophia's interior is better than anything the Ottomans built, but I always found the colour scheme of the exterior a little bland.

[Neoton]

Do you have the pictures in a pack? Maybe a .rar file?

[Stavroforos]

The Hagia Sophia's interior is better than anything the Ottomans built, but I always found the colour scheme of the exterior a little bland.

You mean the brownish red? That was done by the Ottomans, in the 19th or 20th Century, I believe. Originally it was gray.

[neoptolemos]

You mean something like this stav

[Stavroforos]

Yup yup, it's much better in that color, which I assume is the color of the bricks used. I have no idea what they were thinking when they repainted it in its shite color, silly Italians.

[clone]

You mean something like this stav

now we know from where peter jackson was influenced in creating gondor

[Keyser]

^
|

Wich also happen to be the color of the blue mosque !

And as much as byzantine art and mosaïcs are cool and rich, lavish even, i think that i disagree with Blaze86420, there are definitely some ottomans interiors that are worthy of attentions.
But then it's also a matter of taste, i am not all that much pleased by the style of the christian orthodox interiors, all the gold and the style of mosaïcs and/or painting isn't to my taste, whereas i usually appreciate islamic motives.

[neoptolemos]

well the Eastern muslim artistic tradition has something in common with the Greco-Roman with eastern influences Byzantine art
Here is an intact Byzantine interior but Byzantine as western art is more anthropocentric than the Eastern tradition with the natural motives

[Basileos Leandros I]

www.byzantium1200.com

But those illustrations are superb!