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Thread: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

  1. #1
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    If Splenyi provides you "realistic" names , then don't use Total Realism in you mod!

    Its like the TW FB picture description about a "Grecian" Hoplite!
    I sugest you search for other to provide you with realistic names.
    People that must know Latin, Greek and other languages that can provide realistic names for your units.
    For Hellenistic/Greek unit names (including possible AOR/mercenary/ALLIES ones i sugest take a look in the TWH UNIT PACK.
    Koultouras is a History and language teacher (in his real life). Do not hesitade to admit ignorance. Languages like the Greek one are very hard to understand.
    Last edited by Gigantus; June 12, 2014 at 05:44 AM. Reason: not needed
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism (CORE) Pack

    no worries, its work in progress, personally, i would keep english names for easier identification with files.. there will be changes to names of the units, its just not top priority right now..

  3. #3
    14182's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism (CORE) Pack

    Yes, please keep english names or revise the names into their native language at once for the sake of consistency. To me the game looks totally broken when the unit names and cards are in several different styles at the same time.
    Last edited by 14182; May 16, 2014 at 06:04 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    For whoever already tried our little Beta, feel free to leave any suggestions here, i will try to answer all your questions, suggestions etc

  5. #5

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Do you plan to overhaul Building Effects and Character Traits? Any radical redesigns of such systems on the horizon?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Actually, i'm working on one right now..

    one of the planned features that are currently in development, is new Manpower system for R2TR. We would like to have a system that makes more sense, give player more challenge, and doesn't hinder AI during campaign play. As you all know, Food system was introduced with Shogun 2, and it was carried over to Rome 2. While it was a good system to make player think about what he builds next, its execution was a bit harsh. For example, it is linked with replenishment of units, yet as that it doesn't make much sense, as just having a large farm production and surplus of food, doesn't mean you can replace dead men.. Therefore we have decided to replace food in R2TR for manpower/population.


    Simply put -instead of increasing the food by building more farms, free manpower/population rating will depends on size of Cities player has. Larger cities will give you more manpower, which could be then invested into building additional buildings, or kept as reserve for army replenishment. Every single building will now require certain manpower points as these require men to work in them. Higher tier buildings will have higher demands, therefore player will still have to be careful what he wants to build, yet, instead of being afraid expanding cities to highest levels, now, this will be the top priority for your expansion.

    Yet, this requires a lot (A LOT) of work and testing, therefore it will take some time to fully implement it..

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    I've been playing for a little while, and would like to give my opinion.

    Campaign gameplay:

    Honestly, a bit of a letdown, especially compared to mods like DeI. The public order in general seems far too harsh, and while the detrimental effect of having armies stationed in a settlement is a neat idea, the loss in public order is so huge that you can never do it without a full-on rebellion. On top of this, the same effect doesn't seem to apply towards the AI - they seem to get some CRAZY huge bonuses to public order, allowing them to replenish all their armies while you are forced to chose between replenishing at a rate of 2 men a turn or allowing a huge slave rebellion to happen.

    It feels a lot like vanilla other than that. The building icons are pretty strange, and although it's a nice effect I'd much prefer some completely overhauled icons. Of course, that'd take a huge amount of work!

    I do enjoy the lower recruitment points, although they are a double-edged sword. They make big armies worth a lot more, but also IMO seem less realistic - it didn't take half a year to recruit a few hundred men. One of the famed abilities of Rome was their ability to create huge armies in small amounts of time when it was needed, which was one of the reasons Pyrrhus of Epirus was never able to fully defeat Rome -they'd never give up and just make more and more armies, no matter the cost. Perhaps this could be emulated by some sort of script, giving factions the ability to levy up huge armies quickly for a small up-front price, but they'd only be able to travel in friendly regions and have huge extra up-keep cost? It'd give the ability to perform actions like Rome's huge raising of armies, but only in times of emergencies. Otherwise, I liked the ability to recruit Hastati, Principes and Triarii from the start of the game as Rome - it's definitely more realistic, and allows you to make proper Roman-style armies immediately.

    As Rome, I enjoy the starting position with the Etruscan League having their army raiding about. It was a neat idea, and it reminds me of the starting position in Roma Surrectum 2. However, I think the Roman starting armies should be modified a little. You start with too many forces that are all split apart - I think it'd be better if you only started with 2 forces, both a little bigger. The tiny armies you have, and their weird composition (a general, single hastati, single principe, and single triarii?) make the beginning battles boring enough that you don't want to fight, instead wanting to auto-resolve... which usually causes huge losses, and this leads back to the replenishment issues.

    The army movement distance on the campaign map seems far too small. It shouldn't take 6 months to march the tiny distances you do! Perhaps upgrades later make it a whole lot better, but I've not got far enough to see yet. Either way, the starting movement distance seems tiny.

    In terms of technology and agent/general development, it's the same as vanilla as far as I can tell, and the vanilla isn't very good - both in gameplay, and in realism. I hope you've got some interesting ideas lined up for both!

    Battle gameplay:

    The main thing I noted in comparison to DeI was the formations. The units in this keep their cohesion and formation FAR better than in DeI, which is an issue in their mod. I was thinking the formations broke apart because of the long intense combat that happens in DeI (which vanilla wasn't designed to handle), but this mod proves that either vanilla can handle it and DeI broke it, or this mod is doing something very clever to keep it working. - Edit: Nevermind this part. I was wrong - after playing a custom battle with 1v1 troop, I realised that unit cohesion in a straight line battle was broken, so perhaps it is a vanilla issue with long engagements. I think the increased rate of routing in R2TR just made it less obvious, as long engagements are rarer. I note that toggling the formation attack button on and off makes units reform - perhaps there could be a script to do this automatically every couple of seconds?

    In terms of other gameplay, it definitely had a solid base but it needs a lot of tweaking. The first thing I noticed was that units under pressure rout far too quickly. 2 units can be fighting for quite a while, but the instant their flank is open they'll just drop instantly and run. This seems to happen regardless of the state of the battle - in one instance, a unit of principes, surrounded by several other allied units, ran after I told them them to withdraw from some enemy skirmisher cav to fight another unit. Despite the fact another enemy unit had just routed and the skirmishers were close to breaking, the principes routed once their back had turned on them, despite the cav already being engaged by other friendly units!

    I do appreciate that they'll almost always return later on in the battle, but this often happens too late, when they are too far away to get back into the battle before it's over. I think that the effect low fatigue has should be lessened, because while I do agree that a tired unit should drop and run in a relatively even battle, they shouldn't run as the entire enemy army is beginning to rout! I also think that both the unit speed and rate of fatigue rising should be dropped slightly too - unit speed because it makes the battlefields seem so much larger and epic, and fatigue because it's just a bit too harsh right now.

    I preferred how DeI handled the general abilities more than how it's handled in this mod (currently vanilla). I dislike the micromanagement of having to choose a single unit it takes it's affect on, and preferred the style in DeI where it's closer to the original Rome and using the ability would cause it's affect in an area around the general instead.

    I also note that units in combat don't really seem to tire (EDIT - it seems this only occurs with certain troops), but when running they do so, very quickly. Is this intended? In a custom battle with 2 units engaging for ~10 minutes, they came out routing as still fresh. I also noted that the routed units were running away with the exhausted running animation, despite being fresh.

    I also realise that some cavalry seem to have both the wedge, flying wedge and diamond formation. Is this intended, or a bug? Seems a little redundant.

    An almost insignificant thing I'd like to mention, is how much I enjoyed DeI's increased men-per-unit sizes. Would it be possible to have an official sub-mod to increase the same in RTR2, or even integrated officially? It makes armies feel a lot bigger and more epic.

    I never got the chance to fight a naval battle, so I cannot say anything there.

    Other:

    Not much to say here, but I did notice that in the custom battle screen that there were some broken units - for example, Hastati, Principes and Triarii all seemed to be listed twice, but the other of each had no name.

    I note that the tooltip on cinematic mode still says it gives a small combat bonus to troops you watch. In the sake of realism, is it possible to remove this? Or is the tooltip wrong, while the gameplay has already been modified?

    I also enjoyed how units would walk around holding their pila first, with the sword still sheathed. A nice graphical effect! A slightly nice less effect is the apparent removal of the kill animations. Is it possible to include the great kill animations, but still remove the lengthy "draw" animations where neither man dies (which reduce combat cohesion)?

    Overall, I think the mod is good, but it's future potential is far more exciting than what it is right now. I mean no disrespect by the negative points - just sharing my honest opinion. I really do appreciate the work put into the mod!
    Last edited by Causeless; May 17, 2014 at 07:54 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    The combat feels like were throwing eggs at each other, iv had cavalry units rout when charging other units in the rear, perhaps just in need of some refinement.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    What i dont like of tu is the public order that downs Very quilckly And i cant restablish it And Also my armies doesnt recover Even having food enought
    Last edited by LestaT; May 18, 2014 at 12:58 AM.

  10. #10
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    * With regards to sub-mods as of this moment we highly discourage it as we're still doing heavy development of the base features of the mod. That is not to say that we will disallow it but for this moment it's best to get as many feedbacks as possible base on the team release version.


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  11. #11

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    it be nice to have more men in units (i usually play with X 2 men in units) and more unit in 1 single stack ( i personally set it to 30)

    over all the mod is a good start and i see so much potential with the ideas you guys have

    keep up the good work

  12. #12

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Guys, thanks for feedback, i will reply more in detail later, anyway i need to mention one thing - please if you have any concerns or suggestions, please give us more details. single sentence rants have zero value to us. If there are any issues you have, more details you give, bigger chance there is we will focus on that particular area in the future.

    thanks for understanding.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Regarding public order - in next update there will be a rework of occupation penalties to public order, which should a bit ease the situation after you conquer the settlement. Yet options will greatly depend on what option you chose, liberating will have the most positive effects, following by vassalship, occupation, razing, sacking and looting will be the worst.

    Choosing the occupy option will vary, based on culture. Own culture penalties will be quite low, but penalties for occupation of different cultures will be harsh.


    I will also adjust the morale and fatigue penalties a bit. Just keep in mind that its still work in progress and finding the ideal composition is hard, as these values combine together.


    regarding General abilities, these were not touched yet, they will be completely reworked in nearest future.

    For Cavalry abilities, as i already mentioned, wedge and flying wedge represent different tactics. Diamond is anti-cavalry formation used by shock cavalry, Wedge is shock cavalry formation for charging infantry. Flying Wedge is universal formation that increase responsiveness of cavalry unit on move (Commander of the unit can better control movement of his unit this way). So, elite Shock Cavalry units can have all three of those.



    Regarding replenishment - it greatly depends on amount of food you have. Early game is harsh in this, as you usually don't have 30+ surplus to receive high replenishment bonuses.. Things will change a lot when our building overhaul is complete, as amount of "food" will be lower, which will allow us to increase replenishment across the board. Anyway, replenishment system as it is will stay because it creates pressure on player, so he cannot steamroll everything in his vicinity in first few turns. We want to give player a bit slower flowing game play where all decisions matter. after all, with 4TPY you will have much more time to deal with things like this.

    Recruitments points depends on size and amount of barracks you have in province... so, if you want to recruit more men per turn, build higher tier barracks, or build more barracks in your province.
    Last edited by JaM; May 18, 2014 at 06:26 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Thanks for addressing my points This mod is destined for great things! Do you think it'd be possible to fix the formation issue? I've been looking around for solutions, and looking at DeI to see how they force the fatigue ability on (to see if I could further manipulate that to toggle formation attack to force the unit to reform), but I've found nothing in their Lua scripts and received little help. I've got a fair bit of scripting experience in Lua, but there is no scripting documentation for Rome 2...

    Here's my 2 posts over in the DeI forums: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13844674

    They've received no reply, but I'm eager to find a solution to the issue as it's one of the last standing great issues IMO. Once that's fixed, as far as I'm concerned for overhaul mods like this, Rome 2 is better than Rome 1! Of course, CA's got to get map editors out before Rome 2 is better for LOTR mods or so on

    Thanks for reading!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    i was considering doing things like they did with fatigue, but i rather not force player to click on icons just to win a fight.. instead, i gave all disciplined units fighting in formation a fatigue resistant trait, that simulates their ability to rotate ranks and keep fresh men facing the enemy. Anyway, R2TR is still very fresh, a lot of work needs to be done, we decided to do a public release to get more feedback. It is impossible to notice everything within small team.. So yes, whole fatigue/formation/combat system will improve over time, as it is directly related to amount of feedback i'm getting from players. in next planned release there will be some changes already based on feedback we received.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    I think you misunderstand - I'm not really talking about fatigue. Also, in DeI you don't need to press a button - it's just a "fake" button that just shows how resistant to fatigue a unit is, because new attributes cannot be added to the game.

    Here's what I'm talking about:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    This is an extreme example, and the screenshot is from DeI, but the effect still happens in R2TR from my experiments. Units don't reform and after consistent fighting turn into a blobby mess unless they are "updated" as I said above in my post I linked. In most normal engagements the units will still in a relatively rectangle-shaped block, but the actual units will be completely misaligned and it looks like a rabble. Really, formations should look more like this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    What I'm suggesting in the above posts is a way to achieve that, to make the game better for all mods alike. One of the biggest complaints with Rome 2 is the lack of formations, and although it isn't obvious in vanilla (where battles are so short that you don't notice the units losing formations), it's very obvious in longer battles in mods such as this one, where if any 2 sides are engaged with each other for more than a few minutes they collapse into a formation-less ball. I think I've found out why it happens and how to fix it.

    Even if you don't feel the need for improved formations in R2TW or think it's too small a change to worry about, I'd really appreciate the help if you know how DeI manages to force certain abilities to be always-on or if you have any scripting knowledge to tell me how to manipulate abilities in battles. Thanks for reading.

  17. #17
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Well, formations in DeI were wroking fine but something got messed up in one of last CA patches.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    hmm, i never noticed this before... it happens for all normal melee units, which dont have formed attack, but those with it, never end up like a mob.. they reform periodically, but im afraid that is hardcoded. Personally, i would rather see less reforming after combat starts.. it was impossible to keep perfect lines in combat in reality, lines always got mingled. One time i even considered not using formed attack at all... constant reforming towards last attacker is one of the biggest bugs in this game.. instead of all that turning around, they should just make formation stationary, where single files would keep distance.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    Next version will bring few adjustments to public order situation:

    I have reduced the penalty armies produce (-12 from -20), slightly increased bonuses general and agents can provide to public bonus, and reworked penalties taken from conquest:

    - Liberating will now improve public order dramatically (easing the whole public order situation for AI) by +50,and will give liberator +600 to their coffins.
    - Subjugating faction will again, give +600 to treasury, and will improve public order by 10 points.
    - Occupation will result in +300 to treasury, and a bit variable public order - same culture region will end up with -5 order reduced each turn by 1 point. Different culture will result in -50 order reduced by 1 each turn, so occupying provinces with different culture will be more problematic, which will make culture conversion important.
    - Razing the city down will give hefty 1800 to treasury, one time -25 order penalty and -10 order each turn reduced by 1. all buildings will be seriously damaged or destroyed.
    - Looting city will give variable amount of cash, damage buildings, and add one time -25 to public order.
    - Sacking city will give you good amount of money, will damage all buildings, and will result in -10 public order reduced by 1 each turn.

    Overall goal is to make Liberating and vassalship more rewarding, Sacking city as a good option against factions you don't like, while razing and looting as quite harsh decisions towards population, but rewarding in acquired cash..

    Overall, it will be a bit easier to keep good order, especially if you combine deployed agents with public order reduction traits. (having dignitary or champion deployed in the province can improve order enough so it will not go negative with army inside of a city)

  20. #20
    Chernish's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Rome II Total Realism - Beta Feedback and Suggestions

    JaM,
    direct receipt of fixed amounts of money from the robbery is good, but the percentage increase in looting have even better

    Campaign_variables -> settlement_looting_pct_region_gdp. I put value 0.75 ... Try this
    Do what must be and let be what will

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