Belgium, too democratic?

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

The first exit-polls go in every direction..

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

EDIT THIS WAS A MISTAKE BY THE NATIONAL NEWS AGENCY

[King Gambrinus]

Apart from PTB-GO! replacing ecolo in Wallonia and FDF taking third in Brussels, nothing has changed from 2010...


oh wait, VLAAMS BELANG IS DOOD!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

^^
good
now NVA has power

[Bonestaak]

Isn't the N-VA considered to be less extreme and more moderate than Vlaams belang? It kind of strikes me that Belgium has about 3 nationalists party. You'd think the nationalists would unify in order to achieve the common goal which is Flemish independence yet they don't.

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

NVA is not racist and doesn't use onliners, they are centrum right

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Isn't the N-VA considered to be less extreme and more moderate than Vlaams belang? It kind of strikes me that Belgium has about 3 nationalists party. You'd think the nationalists would unify in order to achieve the common goal which is Flemish independence yet they don't.

Also, don't forget all parties in Belgium signed the charter that they'd never work or talk with Vlaams Belang after their huge victory in 1990, associating with them is political suicide.

edit, hehehe look at this:




(wasn't by me )

[Manco]

They're not even nationalistic in the same sense all those other right-wing nationalist parties currently enjoying the limelight are. They're pro-EU for example (which really is no wonder considering Belgium is probably the most pro-EU country around) and are pretty much a regular conservative party when talking about anything but Flanders.
They do use one-liners though, they even use a -load of them.

Not a big fan of NVA, but I'm glad they pretty much annihilated the extreme right.
I actually expected, and half hoped, the socialists to do worse and that the greens would gobble them up, but alas, they still have their die-hard support base apparently. And they really have to be die-hard supporters, no one else would vote for the pathetic bunch they propped up.

You know, it's not just the socialists who were pathetic, this was just a sad election in general. "An election campaign that really focused on the content" my ass. A bunch of catch all-parties with nearly identical programs, all avoiding long term projects and endlessly debating about a bunch of comma's.
Each and every party was pro-jobs, pro-pensions, pro-healthcare, and wants to superficially change unemployment pay outs. And each and everyone's suggestions were things I've heard a dozen times before and haven't ever materialized.

[King Gambrinus]

They're not even nationalistic in the same sense all those other right-wing nationalist parties currently enjoying the limelight are. They're pro-EU for example (which really is no wonder considering Belgium is probably the most pro-EU country around) and are pretty much a regular conservative party when talking about anything but Flanders.
They do use one-liners though, they even use a -load of them.

Not a big fan of NVA, but I'm glad they pretty much annihilated the extreme right.
I actually expected, and half hoped, the socialists to do worse and that the greens would gobble them up, but alas, they still have their die-hard support base apparently. And they really have to be die-hard supporters, no one else would vote for the pathetic bunch they propped up.

You know, it's not just the socialists who were pathetic, this was just a sad election in general. "An election campaign that really focused on the content" my ass. A bunch of catch all-parties with nearly identical programs, all avoiding long term projects and endlessly debating about a bunch of comma's.
Each and every party was pro-jobs, pro-pensions, pro-healthcare, and wants to superficially change unemployment pay outs. And each and everyone's suggestions were things I've heard a dozen times before and haven't ever materialized.

Agreed, but this is what pilarisation/verzuiling and forced voting does for you. People vote for the same party their parents voted for and their grandparents voted for. Take Cdh for example, a party so unclear as to what it represents its hard to believe they are still capable of getting third place in Wallonia. They had scandal after scandal, are led by a complete helmet and have no political identity and still kept their core voter base. Wtf?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

You'd think the effect of Pilarisation would start to disappear in the more modern information age. as for forced voting, they should get rid of that, it had it's use back in the day when workers could be "persuaded" by their bosses not to vote, but today it's pointless.


I agree with you both about this years elections, it was silly, I'm kind of glad that Green grew and that SPa got a tiny bit smaller, I wonder who keeps voting for them, I mean their campaign completely failed to explain why they are relevant, Tobback has proven himself to be an arrogant bully time and time again who is not even half the man his father is, and all he ever did was talk about NVA/BDW

I feel somewhat sorry for pvda not getting a single seat and I'm happy about LDD losing it's seat.

as for Vlaams Belang, you could see them becoming redundant for years now, even before 2010 I knew they where a sinking ship. I guess it's time for them to hang up their coats now that they aren't 100% ridiculous yet but only 85%

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

Reynders doesn't want NVA in the government

[sabaku_no_gaara]

He has to say these things.

He has a real problem, a Government without PS is possible, but, since his half of the country has done nothing but demonize NVA the past 4 years, he can't just get into a government with them without antagonising his own voter base. He'll be painted as a traitor in Wallonie and he'll be punished for it in the next elections 4 years from now.

I'm guessing we can prepare ourselves for 500 days of negotiating

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

Our voting system is just sick

[sabaku_no_gaara]

It's to avoid a Flemish Majority dictating a Walloon minority in a federal state.

Remember what Conscience said in the foreword of his "De Leeuw van Vlaanderen":

Terzelfder tijd wete men dat ik
de Walen, als volksgedeelte beschouwd, niet wil te na spreken; zij hebben
hun waarde als wij en zijn onze staatkundige broeders, maar mogen in geen
geval onze beheersers worden. Dit recht hebben zij nooit gehad en zullen
het nooit verkrijgen.

translation:

At the same time know, that I do not wish to speak (badly of) the Walloons, they are our political brethren and have their value like we, however they may never become our overlords. This right they never had, and they will never obtain

that principle goes both ways. The Walloon has no right to play overlord of the Fleming, but the Fleming has no right ruling the Walloon.

Up scaling the value of the Walloon vote makes it fair since there are less Walloons in Belgium than there are Flemings

[LaMuerte]

as for Vlaams Belang, you could see them becoming redundant for years now, even before 2010 I knew they where a sinking ship. I guess it's time for them to hang up their coats now that they aren't 100% ridiculous yet but only 85%

Indeed. Last time I saw them handing out folders , nobody seemed interested in their propaganda , nobody got angry , nobody seemed to take notice . And that in a migrant neighbourhood! I felt some pity for a split second there ...

[karo]

Our voting system is just sick

Our you really do not understand how voting works and how the seats are divided? In the French speaking region there are tons of parties that do not get the 5% needed to have a seat in the parliament and also there are a lot more people who do vote 'blanco'. Because of those two you get this phenomenon. It also depends on the region where you get the vote. You need less votes in west-Flanders compared to Antwerp to get a seat. That is why you can lose in the number of votes in general but still win seats.

When will you start complaining that the Flemish parties have 17 seats in Brussels?

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

So the Flemish side needs more seats to balance back to equal voting.
Ow and 17 seats out of 89 that is nice, we totaly dictate the Parliament of Brussels...

EDIT: maybe the trojan horse (SPA) of the PS can get more seats that way

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/politiek_e...3136.art?ckc=1
... nothing to do with the above discussion but this is sad news for all of us!
And they tell us that after the elections...

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Actually this is a good thing, social housing companies might actually start to get their in order