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Thread: AI gather local troops ability

  1. #1

    Default AI gather local troops ability

    Can someone tell me how to turn it off please?

  2. #2
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust!
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Hi Nachlader and welcome to TWC, I hope you would stay here for more than just a post

    anyway, supposing you are speaking about the (in)famous garrison script, please specify if you are speaking about vanilla TATW or some submods

    if for Vanilla TATW, please see below, quoted from the FAQS

    Q: Sometimes when I siege an enemy AI controlled settlement massive amounts of troops are spawned out of nowhere the next turn, what gives?
    A: You have fallen victim to the Garrison Script. It is designed to help the AI protect its mayor cities and make the game more challenging. Only the more important/famous cities and capitals have this script.

    To remove the Garrison Script follow these steps:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

    Open the file

    M2TW/mods/Third_Age/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
    Find the line that says
    ;#################### Garrison Script Version 1.3 #####################
    Remove everything below it until you find the line that says
    ;########################### MONEY SCRIPT ##############################
    Save the file and you're done!

    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 of the Imperial House of Hader.


  3. #3

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    I think he means the settlement attribute that allows the AI to move troops THROUGH the siege picket and into the city from outside, not the spawn free armies script.

  4. #4

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Yes, that seems to have worked! Sorry for not specifying if I'm playing vanilla or with any submods.

    Thanks a lot for your help, Flinn.

  5. #5
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust!
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    I think he means the settlement attribute that allows the AI to move troops THROUGH the siege picket and into the city from outside, not the spawn free armies script.
    does this madness really exist? never seen it till now

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachlader View Post
    Yes, that seems to have worked! Sorry for not specifying if I'm playing vanilla or with any submods.

    Thanks a lot for your help, Flinn.
    no problem, and my pleasure, One is glad to be of service

    see you here around
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 of the Imperial House of Hader.


  6. #6

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Perosnally I treasure the Garrison Script highly.
    It is one of the few threats that hinder a blitz, and removing it toss all game balance into the garbage can: factions getting steam rolled in 50 turns is not my kind of game ^^

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  7. #7
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust!
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Perosnally I treasure the Garrison Script highly.
    It is one of the few threats that hinder a blitz, and removing it toss all game balance into the garbage can: factions getting steam rolled in 50 turns is not my kind of game ^^
    Same here. Having not played other mods before TATW, when I firstly met the Garrison Script I was negatively surprised, then I saw how it improved the challange and the balance of the game despite the bad AI; definetly the most innovative script I met here from the point of view of emproving challange and giving depth to the game.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 of the Imperial House of Hader.


  8. #8

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    The game is definitely more rewarding with the garrison script, my biggest gripe is OotMM who hit the garrison script hard right in the beginning of the game, dealing with Imladris and Lorien on their immediate borders.

    But then again, that's why they are respected as a hard faction and you gotta just...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by DrDragun; April 29, 2014 at 03:25 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    I think he means the settlement attribute that allows the AI to move troops THROUGH the siege picket and into the city from outside, not the spawn free armies script.
    ........

    eh?

  10. #10

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Read the green book for any major lore city. The AI can move stacks from outside into the garrison, through your siege. I'm not sure if it's done with a script or with a normal pathed move. Often when you see it, the stack simply disappears from a nearby hill and the garrison grows by a like amount, so it may not be a typical army move, as the native M2 AI is probably not programmed to recognize that it can and should move troops through a siege. Usually it will instead attack you with the 2nd stack if it has advantageous odds.
    Last edited by DrDragun; April 30, 2014 at 10:26 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    So that's what the "ability to gather local troops" means. I assumed it it meant that it was a settlement with garrison script

  12. #12
    Flinn's Avatar In Dude We Trust!
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    well I'll try to pay attention to this but honestly I never noticed this happening, AFAIK that "ability to gather local troops while under siege, AI only" line that we are speaking about is the general GS reference

    anyway, if I'll see it I'll post a screen here, thanks for pointing it out
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 of the Imperial House of Hader.


  13. #13

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Hmm, I will try to observe this again and grab a screen. I know the GS repops every few turns (3? 4?) and I definitely believe I have observed the AI gathering troops into the city between such repops (ESPECIALLY when its the AI sieging another AI), coincident with a local stack moving into the city. But now I am doubting myself because of everyones reaction lol.

  14. #14

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    I'm a bit surprised people like the gather local troops script. I had typed up some reasons why I hated it but the system thought it was spam or something: something about new users and a limit on links or whatever.

    1. the gathered troops are beyond the kind of troops the faction can recruit at that stage of the save, for example in just the first turn as Mordor, Gondor can generate Gondor Infantry, Gondor Spearmen or Gondor Archers, which leads me to point number 2:
    2. where are these gathered troops coming from? The population of the sieged settlement? Why are they instantly such high powered troops? I could play with this script but only if the gathered troops are simply weak militia units, and proportional to a small % of the population of the said settlement (the % of which are adult males of course)
    3. if the siege is broken or lifted, the gathered troops don't remove themselves from the game. Instead, from what I've observed at least, the troops are moved out of the settlement to fight elsewhere or kept there to defend or whatever. This means the faction can have instantly trained troops that are stronger than most troops in the early stage of a save
    4. additional troops (on top of the ones gathered when the settlement is first put under siege) can be gathered when one of the factions rallies forth to attack, or when the siege is lifted but then re-attempted. How many gathered troops do you need?

    It felt like something the AI was aware of and exploited it mercilessly. If it was just one or two militia units, I'd be fine with the script, but it isn't.

    I hope this doesn't give you the impression I have a problem with the (vanilla) mod, I love it. I'm really impressed by how detailed it is.

  15. #15

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Well, gameplay is king. Even above lore and immersion when they must come in conflict. If the AI were better it might not be necessary.

    I think the end result of forcing more epic and rewarding battles at Minas Tirith or Moria is worth the cost of the unrealistic things you mention. Nothing more disappointing than catching 1 Gondor Militia outside of Minas Tirith and taking the city with a reinforcements field battle against 2-3 units. I imagine without the garrison scrip that's what the actual sieges would feel like too.

  16. #16

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    My arguments stands firm

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection

    The Sundering
    - a M2 Warhammer Total War experience


    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon

  17. #17
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    Hmm, I will try to observe this again and grab a screen. I know the GS repops every few turns (3? 4?) and I definitely believe I have observed the AI gathering troops into the city between such repops (ESPECIALLY when its the AI sieging another AI), coincident with a local stack moving into the city. But now I am doubting myself because of everyones reaction lol.
    Whatever this is it isn't scripted. The green books are definitely referring to the Garrison Script.

    @Nachlader
    There is an alternative Garrison Script design which addresses some of your points: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...its%92-command

    Spice Master made a TATW version of it: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...arrison-Script

  18. #18

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    First things first, loving the mod like no other! And I am also a fan of the gather troops script. The first time it hit me was when I tried to catch Moria off guard with a couple units, and the gathered troops, with their Balrogs, came as a nasty a** shock. But in general, the purpose of the script is well thought out, and it serves that well. That being said, I have become enraged with the thing recently while playing the Silvan elves (on vanilla TATW;no mods). I am sieging Gol Guldur, and was going to wait until they sally forth (after like 9 turns), so that I wouldn't have to march up that g*d d*mned hill. But lo and hehold,

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    I have observed the AI gathering troops into the city between such repops,
    When I first laid siege the garrison picked up around 7-10 units (can't remember for sure), and then around 4-5 turns into my siege, it picked up another handful of units. Now, I am not sure if this is because of

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    a local stack moving into the city
    or if the script just resets every so often. I guess my objection is that it seems the script should probably be a one-off, so that the AI can't regularly reinforce itself simply by being sieged.

    Related to this siege (though perhaps not this question specifically), a Mordor army from outside Dol Guldur attacked my besieging force, and I annihilated them, but for some reason my victory relocated my army, ending the siege I had going for 8 turns already. So Mordor effectively made it impossible for me to force the sally, by making it so I either flee the second army or defeat it and be relocated. Is this a bug, or something anomolous, or just the AI being a bit of a pr*ck?

    I am mainly agitated because I am making a good effort to only use good strategy and tactics to win, and not even do any of the "cheap" but non-cheating things common in TW games, but this last thing has made me just want to use the autowin cheat with only one besieging unit, since I feel like the AI has already cheated me.
    From the ashes a fire shall waken.
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  19. #19
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Yes, the script will re-fire after 5 (?) turns. So if you lay siege for long enough you will see more than one increase of garrison numbers.

    a Mordor army from outside Dol Guldur attacked my besieging force, and I annihilated them, but for some reason my victory relocated my army
    If you attack an army/settlement and win then you move onto their location. If the moving also happens when you are the one being attacked and you win (I can't remember if it does) then that would explain it ... you're no longer adjacent to the settlement so cannot be laying siege to it; not a bug, just the way M2TW works.

  20. #20

    Default Re: AI gather local troops ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    Yes, the script will re-fire after 5 (?) turns. So if you lay siege for long enough you will see more than one increase of garrison numbers.
    Thanks for the confirmation. I assumed it would be something round, like every 5 turns, which is what I remember happening. And I figured it had to be the counter resetting, cause the new set of troops is identical to the first garrison that popped in. Is there a simple way to edit the AI-gather script so that it is every 10 turns instead, for all settlements that have AI-gather? I think that would make sense, because while main settlements should plausibly be able to rally the locals to their defense, they certainly can't do that when there is an army at the gates. That's crazy talk And if I remember correctly, no sieges last longer than 10 turns, so this would eliminate the mid-siege reinforcement "problem".

    Quote Originally Posted by Withwnar View Post
    If you attack an army/settlement and win then you move onto their location. If the moving also happens when you are the one being attacked and you win (I can't remember if it does) then that would explain it ... you're no longer adjacent to the settlement so cannot be laying siege to it; not a bug, just the way M2TW works.
    I can't remember if that happens when I am the one being attacked, but it doesn't seem like it should, because the attacking army plays on the tile the defensive army sits on. I.e. the army of Mordor that hit me fought me on my tile (from whence I was laying a siege), so my victory should have left me right where I was, right? I am not certain, because nearly every time one of my armies is attacked, it is by the garrison of a settlement I'm sieging, in which case we fight on the settlement map. But I can't see why it would make sense for me to be moved when I win a defensive battle.
    From the ashes a fire shall waken.
    A light from the shadows will spring.

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