The Greatest blunder in the Second World War?

[Sar1n]

Yep, I'd go with pre-war appeasement policy and phony war. Allowing Hitler to grab Czechoslovakia without resistance was probably point when WWII on such huge scale became truly inevitable. The captured military equipment fueled the Blitz and Poland campaigns, and Czechoslovakia had great industrial output that was put to good use by Reich. And then, phony war, which allowed Hitler to incorporate captured material and harness the industrial capacities of Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark and Norway while British just stood back watching, hoping Hitler will get satisfied with what he has already. If there was no Munich agreement and allies promised (and fulfilled the promises) help to Czechoslovakia in case of invasion, war would be over within months or year or not started at all.

[Gaidin]

Well, truth be told -most- american generals in world war 2 were more worried about being on the papers and bashing the british counterparts than anything else... (Patton, Bradley, Clark.....)

Well, truth be told, there's an ironically legitimate reason for this in a way. For most of the African Campaign, almost until the tail end of Tunisia, the British almost refused to acknowledge the American Army as an Army. I mean, what do you expect with what was the American policy of disbanding most of the Army when not needed, and then drawing it up again when needed. We had a nearly entirely new army as it was. But then when it was Bradley who was able to make the final push to Tunis instead of the plans for the others when they were stopped by difficulties, well, they had to start playing at least somewhat nice. Doesn't mean any of the generals, British or American, were going to stop taking swipes at each other though. Just going to have to be a little bit more subtle about it.

Except Monty anyway. Whenever he wanted to say something he was always just a bull in a china shop, and at least knew who not to say something about.

[Mayer]

Austria-Hungary and Germany are to blame for WW1, and those warmongers were dealt justice after the war. Britain's only 'fault' was using a country like Belgium as an excuse to join the war and therefore make it go global. The Germans thought we would sit back and let them roll over France; they were wrong.

BS, any credible historian blames the escalation into WW1 by the revanchism & nationalism of all empires (Britain, France, Germany, Russia) as well as the romanticism of war in a long period of peace (misconception about war in the public which explains the celebrations in those countries when the mobilization was announced) and the lack of negotiations.
France wanted to get Alsace-Lorraine back which is why they told Germany that they won't stay neutral in this war, whereas Germany had the Schlieffen Plan (outmaneuver french main force and fortifications over Belgium) France had the Plan XVII (created 1913) which was a direct offensive into Alsace-Lorraine. For Britain, Belgium was just an excuse to declare war on Germany, the british people turned increasingly anti-german in the years following the foundation of a unified Germany due to its economic power, fleet construction and colonial expansion which made it Britain's greatest rival.
Russia had another reason, officially it was helping Serbia on the basis of Pan-Slavism but the russian military really just pushed it because they thought it would distract russians from internal problems (Russia already experienced a revolution 1905 and the authocratic power of the czar was unstable)
The regents who were close relatives didn't want war but they allowed it to happen. There was the famous Willy–Nicky Correspondence in which Wilhelm and Nicholas tried to deescalate but it only led to the postponement of Russian general mobilization for 2 days, the austrian foreign minister Leopold Berchtold pressed for retaliation against Serbia on his own without consent by Franz Joseph who was surprised by the harsh ultimatum (which had unreasonable demands on purpose for reason of war). Germany's parliament (including opposition) supported the war because they felt they were under attack by Russia (which is not entirely wrong either since Russia was about to invade east prussia with 2 armies).

As for WW2, it's good to know then that you can deliberately vote a little Austrian rat into power, take over 90% of Europe and kill millions of people in ways believed unheard of in the history of our race and STILL get off lightly at the end of it when you lose. Don't know why more haven't tried it! All of Germany should have been left to Stalin but then again, that wouldn't have been very sporting.

Actually Stalin had less rigorous retaliation plans for Germany than F.D.R who was nuts and germanophobic. Stalin just wanted to establish his communist dictatorship/puppet government, have reparations, cut off the east and he flirted with the idea to shoot up to 50,000 german officers. Whereas Roosevelt was supporter of the Morgenthau plan to permanently deindustrialize germany and turn it into a peasant country or even split it into several nations, he once even said to castrate the germans or treat them so they don't reproduce anymore, i.e. annihilate them, heck he already wanted to put all German American into concentration camps but was frustrated that they were too many.

Also isn't it weird to critize others for being expansionists while at the same time being citizen of the country which conquered most territory and subjugated most people of all empires in the history of mankind?
And Britain's human right record isn't clean either, after all we shouldn't forget that concentration camps are a british invention from the Second Boer War.

It is a shame really, as Britain and Germany made the most wonderful allies throughout history and now two wars which total 10 years have left a shadow over our people's relationship

As i said the relations deteriorated since germany became a major powerhouse in europe. The reason for this hostility is mainly because Britain didn't like competition, the wars were just the result of the antipathy.
when Prussia was small without fleet or colonies and fighting with Austria, there was no conflict with british interests.

A German victory would have plunged the world into darkness, and yet they were allowed to rebuild. Not right at all...

Grossly exaggerated.
Stalin's Soviet Union wasn't a nice place either, partially it was worse. Millions perished under slavery and famine, despotic rule reached its maximum with Stalin's deification and NKVD terror, Stalin also wanted to persecute jews in his latter life dubbed as campaign against 'rootless cosmopolitans'. And ask spanish anarchists about the spanish civil war, you will be surprised to find out that Stalin's gangs of murderers became their main enemy and not Hitler.
Indeed Stalin's victory plunged the world into darkness, eastern europe came into the tight grip of stalinesque state securities while the people lived in fear and poverty and it led to the rise of Mao and Pol Pot who were mass-murderers on an epic scale. If it weren't for the policy change of Khrushev and if F.D.R's successors hadn't stopped the appeasement we could today live in a truly orwellian world

The biggest blunder at the end of the war has to be Chiang Kai-shek not accepting the offer to add the Imperial Japanese Army to the Kuomintang. This potentially could have given him hundreds of thousands of experienced troops and officers, probably better diplomatic ties between China and Japan and maybe even that extra push he needed to hold or even defeat the Communists. Then again I'm not sure but a few hundred thousand troops never hurt anyone and considering how America later held him out to dry it sounds like a good alternative.

I thought Chiang Kai-shek actually wanted that japanese soldiers stay as garrison because he couldn't control the whole of China. However this invitation to stay immediatly after the 8 years of war only hurt the chinese patriotic sentiment and further deteriorated the reputation and support for the Kuomintang. I also think it would not have turned the tide, Mao was an exceptional military commander with unusual (asymmetric) tactics to which the japanese had no adequate response either.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Eeeh, that last statement. Well I can agree to Mao being good at asymmetric tactics but a good military commander? Dunno about that one

[hellheaven1987]

Where was Mao's asymmetric tactic which Japanese could not beat? Where?

[ShockBlast]

Austria-Hungary and Germany are to blame for WW1, and those warmongers were dealt justice after the war. Britain's only 'fault' was using a country like Belgium as an excuse to join the war and therefore make it go global. The Germans thought we would sit back and let them roll over France; they were wrong.

As for WW2, it's good to know then that you can deliberately vote a little Austrian rat into power, take over 90% of Europe and kill millions of people in ways believed unheard of in the history of our race and STILL get off lightly at the end of it when you lose. Don't know why more haven't tried it! All of Germany should have been left to Stalin but then again, that wouldn't have been very sporting.


It is a shame really, as Britain and Germany made the most wonderful allies throughout history and now two wars which total 10 years have left a shadow over our people's relationship

What are you talking about, geopolitically Germany didn`t have any goal, France wanted German land, UK wanted a smaller Kaiserliche Marine.The only mistake Germany did was to back Austro-Hungary, France and the Russian Empire replied by mobilising their armies.War was on the way regardless of what Germany said or did.

It irks that Germany is the heart and soul of EU, they will unite Europe and shape it as they see fit, that is what you got for your who world wars.

P.S. If you have some secret German plans from WW1 that no one know please share it with us. Who knows, maybe I missed something.

[SorelusImperion]

The biggest blunder at the end of the war has to be Chiang Kai-shek not accepting the offer to add the Imperial Japanese Army to the Kuomintang.

With the Japanese killing, raping and pillaging their way through China that would have been akin to Stalin asking the Wehrmacht to stay in Russia.

[hellheaven1987]

With the Japanese killing, raping and pillaging their way through China that would have been akin to Stalin asking the Wehrmacht to stay in Russia.

To Chiang, that was least concern; CCP even forcefully conscripted Japanese civilians to fight their war.

The real reason why Chiang wanted Japanese left as soon as possible because Nationalist simply lacked everything - no food, no clothes, no medical supplies, no small arms, no munition... etc; China in 1945 was in a point where, in economy 101 way, having high demand from the market but unable to provide enough supplies.

[Mayer]

Where was Mao's asymmetric tactic which Japanese could not beat? Where?

Shaanxi was the operation centre of the communist Eighth Route Army who employed Mao's guerilla tactics (use of surprise and feints to defeat a larger but less mobile foe) and were largely successful with operations against the IJA. Due to their lack of heavy weapons they were more mobile (especially in mountain area) and they had less supply problems because they were fed by locals. The 8th Route often harassed japanese soldiers with small groups, retreated quickly and encircled the pursuer with a much larger force. They were also remarkable in recovering fast by recruiting an often even larger force than before and their soldiers had a very high morality (usually fighting to the death) in contrast to the Kuomintang. 1945 were most of japanese positions in Northern China threatened by the Eigth Route Army.

The real reason why Chiang wanted Japanese left as soon as possible because Nationalist simply lacked everything - no food, no clothes, no medical supplies, no small arms, no munition... etc; China in 1945 was in a point where, in economy 101 way, having high demand from the market but unable to provide enough supplies.

While Mao's communist forces were mostly self reliant and Mao was aware of Chiang's financial problems

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

That makes way more sense Hellheaven, seeing as both Mao and Chiang used Japanese troops during and after the war.

I do not believe the Japanese poured enough men to Shaanxi to even make a significant impact there against the Communists though. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Mao's new found superiority in 1945-1947 was due mostly to the Soviet Union, well that and the Japanese built up Manchuria pretty damn good.

[Papay]

Basically the Germans invading USSR

[Chukada1]

That makes way more sense Hellheaven, seeing as both Mao and Chiang used Japanese troops during and after the war.

I do not believe the Japanese poured enough men to Shaanxi to even make a significant impact there against the Communists though. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Mao's new found superiority in 1945-1947 was due mostly to the Soviet Union, well that and the Japanese built up Manchuria pretty damn good.

Soviets stripped Manchuria of industry before giving it to PLA.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Still a more intact region than most of China though and relatively safe from KMT operational capabilities.

[Strengelicher]

It is a shame really, as Britain and Germany made the most wonderful allies throughout history and now two wars which total 10 years have left a shadow over our people's relationship

If there was a shadow, it has passed. I went to school in England 25 years ago and perceived no shadow at that time already, let alone today. Laughed my ass off with English blokes watching crazy British TV comedies about the Nazis. You should relax a bit, I think the English and ze Germanz are fine now.

[Cyclops]

The greatest blunder of WW2 was Hitler starting it and Hitler escalating it. Germany was crushed, millions of Germans ethnically cleansed and the country was cut in two. No-one has ever done more damage to Germany than Adolf Hitler.

Axis intelligence failures come in second, I have to agree they were pantsed by the communist and WAllied capabilities.

[Dromikaites]

1) The Phony War. WW2 could have ended by January 1940;

2) The fall of Eben Emael. Had the French been able to reach the prepared Belgian lines, the Sedan breakthrough would have actually put the German forces at a considerable risk of being cut off;

3) The fall of Crete. With Crete firmly in Allied hands the Balkans would have absorbed much more German troops, making Operation Barbarossa even more difficult than it was. It also would have made a landing in the Balkans much more feasible, probably also encouraging Turkey to join on the Allied side. With the Greek and Yugoslavian populations in open revolt the advance of the Allies into Hungary would have been swift. That in turn would have meant Hitler loses the Romanian oil in 1943, Central and Eastern Europe remain democratic and Poland remains in her pre-war borders.

I picked those 3 as the most important blunders because they could have ended the war much faster.

I could have also added the French reluctance to use half of her air force as an early major blunder, but after the bombings of Warsaw and Rotterdam the French had good reasons to fear a massive German attack on their cities, which explains why they sent only half their planes to the frontline.

[conon394]

Basically the Germans invading USSR

Not really - given the Nature of Hitler's Germany , the nature of his Army the fact the UK would not give up and with FDR succeeding in making the US a undeclared co belligerent with the UK - I was perfectly logical choice in fact the only one he had.

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Rommel - more or less stopping the plan to take Malta and refusing to simply stabilize Italian North Africa at minimum cost. To Germany and thus causing Germany waste an outlandish amount of resources on attempts at Victory that were more or less impossible.

The Odd failure of All the European Powers to take not notice of the developments by Japan and the US of long range dive bombers and fighters - effective ones, single engine ones for use in the Pacific (*). Most all of which were able to add and use drop tanks in various configurations to achieve ranges that make the war in Europe sort of mind boggling with its short range fighters. But since even the US army would not use the F4U as a stop gap solution to its escort fighter problem maybe its was the water or something.

* I mean compare the performance of JU 87 to the SBD Dauntless at around 40/41 The Dauntless has around 100 KG more bomb capacity, is marginally faster and far more maneuverable, has a better gun load for defense and most critically has over 3 times the potential range with a combat load. Comprise for range were an issue but I suspect the French and UK soldiers at Dunkirk would very much have liked the UK to have had several squadrons of fighters like the F4F or A6M for their faults to be able to offer consistent air cover (and how Germany would have liked either for BOB bomber escort).

[Vanoi]

Not closing the Falaise pocket was a bad blunder.

[Visna]

Not closing the Falaise pocket was a bad blunder.

Nah, surrounded people can have a tendency to get rowdy and fight back. Leave a door open for them to try to escape, and it becomes safer to kill them.

So many candidates for big blunders, but not building the Maginot line all the way to the coast is up there with the worst of them, I think. (That is of course assuming it would have stopped the Germans, even if it had been complete. And it's not technically a WW2 blunder).
Redirecting the Luftwaffe to attack London instead of airfields because Hitler got pissed off that a small number of British bombers unloaded a few bombs on Berlin is another. Switching targets, especially to something symbolic as a city, when you're arguably winning a war of attrition thereby giving your opponent time to recover, was monumentally stupid. And all because of Hitlers hurt feelings.

[DarthShizNit]

Starting it.