Hardest Faction - Economically?

[LuckyPistol]

So here's something I find people don't discuss as much: Which faction is the hardest to maintain a stable economy? I mainly mean Vanilla, but you can throw in MOS and other submods if they're really that much different than their Vanilla counterparts.

For me, I think its either Isengard or Silvan elves. Neither can really keep up production of units needed to fend off your enemies and expand. Rohan spams horsemen that usually take a toll on your armies, and the Silvans have to fend off waves of orcs from Mordor and Misty Mountains. Lorien suffers similar to the Silvans in MOS.

What do you guys think?

[chriskourou]

Playing Silvan Elves before 3.2 was quite easy. You started with a few more cities and you could expand your economy nice and easy. In 3.2 except for the obvious threats of Ootmm and Mordor, you may end up fighting with Dwarves and more rarely with Dale. So I agree on that. I play only with the good factions though so, my opinion is 50% accurate.

[Kamos]

Rhun and Eriador always gave me the most trouble. Eriador has pretty expensive units as I recall and very small towns. Rhun doesn't have very many towns, they're mostly smaller and very far apart slowing expansion.

[Flinn]

I think it really depends on what are your approach and preferences, basically in vanilla TATW and MOS the evil factions have a worst economy overall (due to lower quality governors, in particular with trading skills) except Rhun and Harad, as both can develop a strong economy (Rhun has plenty of gold mines and the possibility to have intense sea trade within their biggest cities, while Harad has the strongest position ever), but I concur that Isengard (especially in MOS, due to less regions) is probably the hardest faction to build up economically or at least it was always so for me; at the same time Dunland in MOS is a walk in the park (also because their units are very cheap)

If I have to make a rank, from the hardest: Isengard, Mordor, OMM and OOG, the other three (Harad, Rhun and Dunland) are not hard at all.

For the good factions it really depends on the version too, but probably yes, the Silvans and Lorien in MOS both have a weaker economy compared to vanilla TATW, but honestly with the elves, using the best troops in ME, you don't feel you are poor, I mean with them you really need half of the troops compared to human or orc factions, so usually economy is more than enough (at least to turtle properly). Eriador too has not the best economy, but you have a strong position and two powerful allies and honestly if you know how to grow your cities it's not that hard in the end.

my rank: Lorien and Silvans (in MOS), Eriador and Dwarves (due to the split kingdom), Dale too can be tricky if you spread your kingdom too much in the begenning, all the rest are pretty easy.

[DrDragun]

There are many different reasons economy can be difficult, but I agree with the overall choices of Lucky and Finn.

#1 Isengard
Huge army maintenance (garrisons on all sides, no "bread basket" settlements)
Poor expansion options - no stable choke points
Mediocre financial settlements besides Isengard

#2 Dwarves
High army maintenance due to marching distance - troops spend a high % of their cost crossing the map
High corruption loss from split territory
Infantry armies take losses - even the best infantry armies

#3 Mordor
Expensive to hold Northern territory
Poor income before heavy farm investment. Few mines until settlements begin upgrading.
Saved only by imba Nazgul helping to reduce standing army costs (your 3 starting Nazgul can shred 1/2 stacks from Gondor, alone, repeatedly)

#4 Silvans
Income is low, but maintenance requirements are also low by using archers efficiently
The river valley can recruit Beorning mercs in a pinch, allowing lower garrisons to be maintained
Moria may be grabbed early using Ents

#5 High Elves
Income is low, but maintenance requirements are leisurely

[Funeh]

Vanilla: Isengard
DaC: Northern Dunedain (extreme low economy lol)

[jinjo]

economy of dale is terrible in vanilla

[Dude with the Food]

I never play long enough but with Gondor/Eriador I always scrape my money. I guess, because I prefer smaller factions, I can deal with Isengard better than most although I agree they aren't great for economies.

[DrDragun]

I don't expand north as Eriador, because Weathertop is amazing to defend and a natural choke. I think this way the economy is easier, to fight Isengard and OotMM first and OoG second.

[LuckyPistol]

Rhun and Eriador always gave me the most trouble. Eriador has pretty expensive units as I recall and very small towns. Rhun doesn't have very many towns, they're mostly smaller and very far apart slowing expansion.

Eh.....Rhun you say gives you trouble, out of all the others? You sir are either a genius or have had just terrible luck with the Easterlings

economy of dale is terrible in vanilla

Ah, I forgot about Vanilla Dale, yes they do start out horribly poor despite being....well, flipping DALE

[DrDragun]

Vanilla Dale isn't too bad imho. Their military upkeep is very low assuming you rush Rhovanion region and thus get many "safe" settlements to make money and only need to maintain ~2 stacks on the narrow front. Trade with Dwarves and Silvans is pretty good

[kandtcarroll]

I always thought the High Elves and Eriador were the harderst factions to play on an economic level. Eriador is still the hardest faction to play in general, if anyone were to ask my opinion. I would say the OoMM is the hardest evil faction to play militarily speaking, but can have a decent economy. Before 3.2, the hardest faction to play economically would have been Harad for me, but now it is Mordor, of all things....

[British empire]

For vanilla I would probably say the silvans.
For DAC its the Nothern Dunedain hands down.
And in MOS its the High elves for me.

[Bladvak]

I'm a heavy player of MOS and of good factions.

In MOS, probably the hardest good faction economy-wise is Rohan, because:
much is asked of you but you are given small, undeveloped provinces (as Gondor you are asked a lot, but at least you are given the provinces to sustain the armies; as HE, FPoE you are given small, undeveloped provinces but at least you're not asked much)
you basically trade with yourself for the best part of 100-200 turns
no true naval opportunities
if you do expand into Isengard, you will lose the desire to continue playing the game, as it will offer no difficulty after you wipe it out

[LuckyPistol]

Vanilla: Isengard
DaC: Northern Dunedain (extreme low economy lol)

For vanilla I would probably say the silvans.
For DAC its the Nothern Dunedain hands down.
And in MOS its the High elves for me.

What's the huge problem with Northern Dunedain economy? You basically get first dibs on the Remnant of Angmar mines to conquer

[Flinn]

try playing VH/VH and you'll see

I tried ND and their economy is one of the poorest (maybe THE poorest) I've seen so far, mostly because of the fact that with such a small population you can't get pretty anything from rising the taxes; furthermore, there is little you can construct economically on your settlements. You can turtle a little in Amon Sul and Fornost and garrison some more troops for free in Annùminas and Fennas, but it will take a while before you'll be able to maintain enough troops on the field to be able to assail Angmar.

hard but funny, anyway, much to my likings of turtler

[The SilvanElve NL]

I really have a bg finincial problem playing as Dol Amroth in The Devide and Conquer mod. High army upkeeps, constant raids from The Haven of Umbar, ships blocking my ports and thus creating less income. I really can't play as them, as my finincial problems give me no option to construct new buildings and buy new units. I know that this is what makes them hard to play with, but I really would like to have some tips to create a better economy

[LuckyPistol]

try playing VH/VH and you'll see

I tried ND and their economy is one of the poorest (maybe THE poorest) I've seen so far, mostly because of the fact that with such a small population you can't get pretty anything from rising the taxes; furthermore, there is little you can construct economically on your settlements. You can turtle a little in Amon Sul and Fornost and garrison some more troops for free in Annùminas and Fennas, but it will take a while before you'll be able to maintain enough troops on the field to be able to assail Angmar.

hard but funny, anyway, much to my likings of turtler

Interesting, I imagined blitzing Angmar would be the first thing to do as them I haven't tried them out except in custom battles, but I'll give them a try.

I really have a bg finincial problem playing as Dol Amroth in The Devide and Conquer mod. High army upkeeps, constant raids from The Haven of Umbar, ships blocking my ports and thus creating less income. I really can't play as them, as my finincial problems give me no option to construct new buildings and buy new units. I know that this is what makes them hard to play with, but I really would like to have some tips to create a better economy

I tried out Dol Amroth just to test the waters (not a naval pun) and I've come to the conclusion to initially SACK Umbar (the capital), collect gold, raze the buildings, and get the Udun OUTTA THERE! Before you actually leave, just keep your army outside the city with one unit still garrisoned so Umbar doesn't just waltz back in. Try to get the settlement to rebel and then leave so your enemies will focus on taking that back.

Again, I've only tried them once, but that situation worked well for me after miserably failing to maintain an economy for 15 or so turns Still, I have to give praise to DnC for creating very paced coast-to-coast warfare. As Dol Amroth, you can leave Gondor to hold back Mordor and Harad while you take out Umbar and then invade Harad from below. Khand won't be a problem as long as you expand north first.

If Gondor is beaten all the way back to your position, you're given the opportunity to get some real money-makers, courtesy of Mordor

[Jmonstra]

I found that the High Elves in MOS are the most difficult faction to raise a significant standing army with. Its hard to take the territories needed to grow tax revenues without spreading yourself very thin thereby leaving yourself open to heavy counter attack.

[eugenioso]

I found that the High Elves in MOS are the most difficult faction to raise a significant standing army with. Its hard to take the territories needed to grow tax revenues without spreading yourself very thin thereby leaving yourself open to heavy counter attack.

The problem with the HE in MOS is that you need to be agressively expanding from turn 1, rather than the usual gathering of forces for taking over rebel settlements. from HE's western provinces, you need to

A) expand south and block the dwarves from expanding east
B) build a small army and attack Goblin town from Imladris
C) expand north from your western cities, leaving only the smallest garrisons possible
D) do this with extremely limited unit numbers.