New to Paradox Games -- EU4 vs CK2?

[Stario]

Well i got CKII about 3 months ago. At first found it really hard to get into. However I pursued (read a lot of guides and watched a lot of youtube vids), as I invested in all the dlc's.

That said, I am glad I didn't put this game down right away and instead pursued because the game in its complexity is now very addictive. For anyone that hasn't played this, let me just say it is nothing like total war type 'point & click' on a territory to send ones army and conquer game-in this game you firstly need a Casus Belli (a reason to go to war) and meet a bunch of other prerequisites prior to being able to conquer a territory (albeit one can always raid/loot other territories without a CB).

With the many counties/duchies in any given kingdom it also becomes an internal struggle as you come toe to toe with the other counts/dukes etc. so depending on kingdom 'centralisation' you can often find yourself conquering territories within your own kingdom, joining coalitions within your own kingdoms against the king or opposing coalitions etc. (this is medieval ), and just generally trying to make your way up the ranks; even trying to become king yourself if you want, before even beginning to focus on foreign kingdoms (of course for an easier campaign one can just play a king to start with-I'd recommend this for anyone new to the game).
Then there is the crusading aspect in between all the chaos (if youre a Catholic faction, jihads for Muslims etc.).

Let me just say, it is also not just about warfare, playing as a Duke I managed to lower the crown authority, had the King imprisoned, and while at it banged and impregnated my Kings wife (the queen), who had my son. That is just one example of the crazy , besides expelling the Jews one can get up-to in CKII

Lastly, the ability to make one's own custom characters (with the ruler designer), is also neat.
Sadly I think most newbies will put this game down due to the initial complexity of the game, but those who don't will be rewarded. After 200+ hour I have now developed the 'addicted to CKII' trait.

end of my ramble...

[kambiz]

It is strange that even as a noob I found CK2 less complex than EUIV !!!

[Seljuq Prince]

The only problem with paradox games ( especially CK2 ) its very much DLC whored.. Total war is merely a shadow compared to paradox on dlc whoring..CK2 without DLCs is not interesting game at all too..you will always want to buy more content, believe me, but after paying 200 dollars for DLCs you would get a very pretty and enjoable game. So actually CK2 is a very very expensive game, this is only negative aspect of it.

[Echbart]

If you want more immersion deep and complex game try HIP mod....well i dont play CK II without it anymore

As for DLCs...yes they are only negative aspect...i liked expansion model more. Bu i only bought ones which i considered important to play...as many mechanics are put in base game....and wait for sale!

[kambiz]

The only problem with paradox games ( especially CK2 ) its very much DLC whored.. Total war is merely a shadow compared to paradox on dlc whoring..CK2 without DLCs is not interesting game at all too..you will always want to buy more content, believe me, but after paying 200 dollars for DLCs you would get a very pretty and enjoable game. So actually CK2 is a very very expensive game, this is only negative aspect of it.

True !
With all DLCs this game (CK2) has become the most expensive games I've ever had considering that even I bought it while was on sale (at least 50% discount and still paid over 100$) ! After buying their recent DLC I've decided not to try any other PDX games at all

[awful horror]

Selling unit graphics and portraits is completely ridiculous. It's even worse that the stock faces are mostly disgusting to behold.

The faction DLC I have less of a problem with.


For anyone on the fence, assuming you have the money or timing for a sale, I'd recommend Paradox game in this order: CK2 > EU 4 > Old games about nordic wars > whatever current Victoria > Hearts of Iron.

CK2 isn't hard to play, you just have to learn as you play. It's kind of like Go; You can read books about it or just play and learn the intricacies along the way. I seriously recommend skipping the tutorial, picking a lord in far off Ireland or Scotland and just blundering through one game without much risk of getting conquered by anyone quickly. The intrigue, open ended fantastical elements, and sheer variety of the game is what makes it better than Total War, in my opinion. Also the chance to completely reshape history feels much more real and satisfying.

Don't buy Sunset Invasion


EU 4 is a little goofier in that you can more easily conquer without having the skillz of a Gustavus or Napoleon. I just feel like after CK2 the intrigue and personal interaction should escalate rather than become diminished. Something seems off when instead of focusing on some Borgia style backstabbing you're basically just grinding your way through units and painting the map your color without getting to actually command the battles at a tactical level. I mean give us at least one or the other. Also the world is surprisingly simplified after the incredible depth of CK 2. Japan is now Chinese ? (: ? and Shogun 2 fans should quickly see how minimalist the game really is if you pick one of the Japan factions to compare.

EU 4 isn't a bad game at all it's just not nearly as good as CK 2, which I think is better than any Total War. Since I'm on a Total War site that should explain how much I like the game. EU4's best feature, in my opinion, is carrying on your CK2 save file into the 16th and 17th centuries and conquering the world as your chosen civilization/religion/whatever.
Bonus points: Sabaton soundtrack is epic.


Victoria is the hardest to figure out and it's mostly for people interested in things like the 2nd Industrial Revolution, the Revolutions of 1848, or the age of Imperialism. Too much of a focus on class systems and labor allocation for my taste but I don't think it's a bad game.



Why am I so harsh on Hearts of Iron? Having played much better games like World in Flames is one thing, but the game basically sucks at actually simulating grand strategy. The politics system and technology trees may look amazing, but they are basically fluff and they become more meaningless to gameplay with each release - and yes I have played at least one full campaign with each release. At least in HoI 2 (the best one in the series) you could actually rewrite your country's political landscape and the course of the war period and the world. Now it really is a bigger waste of time than politics in Rome 2...but that is so much worse because it's supposed to be the core of the game. You pretty much go with a few basic options depending on country unless you mod or puppet state-release-switch sides in a save file, which is not how the game is meant to be played. Mwhat's worse is that you'll never naturally see the programmed events like Unholy Alliance actually play out unless you sleazily manipulate the game. It may as well not be in the game.

Strategic war planning is more tedious than it needs to be and the interface is not fun when you have big armies. It's fun at first to design your own military structure but it ends up being stupid and more trouble than it's worth. HQs don't function like they are supposed to and really stand as a testament to the value of leaving some things abstract.

Finally and possibly worst of all - the combat is asinine. I you not I have literally conquered the Japanese Empire and home islands as the KMT just because I built enough factories early on and selected the correct (op) infantry doctrine and just waited for it to build and research. I did War Plan Z as Germany, lost my whole fleet but then managed to destroy the British home fleet with ONE submarine and a torpedo bomb squadron. Land combat isn't as bad but it's simply not fun to play and involves a lot of micro and waiting. There's twice as much micro as there needs to be because a lot of commands simply don't execute properly.


I'm sorry that I made such a monster wall of text but I would rather anyone take the time to read this warning than to waste an eighth of the time I have on this series.


tl:dr
CK2 is worth 100+ bucks and ffs don't waste your time on Hearts of Iron. Literally the only games I play are strategy and World of Tanks, and I only regret the time I wasted on HoI.

[Doukan]

Depends what you're looking for really, though I'd say the most "fun" would have to be Victoria 2.
If you had to pick between the two though, go for EU IV, CK 2 is decent enough but unbalanced as heck, and only keeps getting worse blob wise as each DLC comes out, EU IV at least has plenty of great mods for it that address those issues.

Not to say that CK 2 doesn't of course, but it's a lot easier to balanced a hundred or so countries than it is 10,000+ adulterous courtiers.