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Thread: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of Ukraine

  1. #101
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    I always thought IFV's role today is to provide firepower for infantry to fight other infantry; the AT role sounds good but really, does that even happen often?
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  2. #102
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Nobody ever seems to like Light Tanks...

    So It seems the Pentagon as fallen out of love with the Stryker MGS.

    http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...strykermgs.pdf
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the...s-d5e6d22bdfcc

    but on the ground apparently it is useful if hot...

    http://www.armytimes.com/article/200...ings-heat-Iraq

    The ley point is that it is what it is and it not an MBT. It does not break roads and bridges, and it is meets weight requirement to make C-130 transport effective. I have seen nothing really persuasive to say why it cannot get the double v under hull upgrade that the rest of the Stryker's are getting. We never fought the Fuda gap thing nor are we likely to invade China - and for that kind of thing we can either use M1A's we leave in Germany or just suck it and wait for the logistics. We are however likely to end up in a situation like the french in MAli or the CAR and a few Stryker MGS seem like a useful thing to have on hand ... as far as I know most African countries don't have a load of main battle tanks and well trained crews. Something is better than nothing and a system already in place is likely easier to fix a bit than start from scratch.

    I mean one of criticism is that its vulnerable to RPGs or such (in the PDF) but that is sort of the point most everything is the army (or marines) ride in except for an MBT that has reactive Armour plates, RPG grills and likely an active defense systems, smoke, jamming systems, etc - is. You know you could install the well working Israeli active defense system on at that would would help with the vulnerability issue - but no lets wait for raytheon vapor products some day I sure they will make something...
    Good god man, you sound like me.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Iraqi Abrams tanks have been knocked out by RPGs in the new civil war, so honestly even then...

  4. #104
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Iraqi Abrams tanks have been knocked out by RPGs in the new civil war, so honestly even then...
    How many? But the Abrams the Iraqis get are downgraded so i am not too surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Not sure if there's been any follow-up coverage since this story.

    http://www.janes.com/article/39550/i...osses-revealed

  6. #106
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Iraqi Abrams do not have the DU plates and I'm sure they're nowhere near the M1A2 TUSK in protection.

    And to my knowledge, the Iraqi Abrams have been sitting at base mostly. Watched a CNN clip the other day where the ISF were using a T-54 instead of their Abrams for some reason. Even though they had Abrams in the base they were operating out of.

    Yes, Stav, they're M1A1. Not M1A1(HA) or (HC). No upgrade armor. Basically the same mehish armor from the M1 but with a 120mm gun.

    Militants operating in Al-Anbar have also released images of numerous attacks on other Abrams tanks, including ones involving a 9K11 Kornet ATGM
    Well, yeah, a Kornet can take down anything.
    Last edited by I WUB PUGS; July 01, 2014 at 10:46 AM.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Americans always belive their tanks is indestructible. This was back in the day with RPG's and IED's. Now when Obama have supplied the rebels with ATGM the M1 should find it even more difficult.

    "We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest" - James Paul Warburg

  8. #108
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Elemental View Post
    Americans always belive their tanks is indestructible. This was back in the day with RPG's and IED's. Now when Obama have supplied the rebels with ATGM the M1 should find it even more difficult.
    And the fact the tanks the US supplies to the Iraqis are downgraded. Not the same tanks the Americans used. AGTMs are not new, they had them in 2003. And the AGTMs used were not supplied by Obama since the only AGTMs supplied by America to the rebels have been TOW missiles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    Iraqi Abrams do not have the DU plates and I'm sure they're nowhere near the M1A2 TUSK in protection.

    And to my knowledge, the Iraqi Abrams have been sitting at base mostly. Watched a CNN clip the other day where the ISF were using a T-54 instead of their Abrams for some reason. Even though they had Abrams in the base they were operating out of.

    Yes, Stav, they're M1A1. Not M1A1(HA) or (HC). No upgrade armor. Basically the same mehish armor from the M1 but with a 120mm gun.


    Well, yeah, a Kornet can take down anything.
    Do any other tanks besides the US Abrams have DU armor? Including other export Abrams.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    Do any other tanks besides the US Abrams have DU armor? Including other export Abrams.
    No. I think the US has exported some Abrams with DU plates. Not sure to who though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  11. #111
    I WUB PUGS's Avatar OOH KILL 'EM
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    No. I think the US has exported some Abrams with DU plates. Not sure to who though.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Operators

    Saudis are only ones with DU.

    Stav, Challenger II has DU too.
    Last edited by I WUB PUGS; July 01, 2014 at 11:30 AM.

  12. #112
    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    F-35 is grounded again:

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/04...rounding-2014/

    I suppose this puts its planned appearance at Farnborough and RIAT in doubt as well.

    In related news HMS Queen Elizabeth was named today by HM Queen Elizabeth II:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28146412


  13. #113
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Pielstick View Post
    F-35 is grounded again:

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/04...rounding-2014/

    I suppose this puts its planned appearance at Farnborough and RIAT in doubt as well.

    In related news HMS Queen Elizabeth was named today by HM Queen Elizabeth II:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28146412
    You know it would really be fascinating to be able to rewind history and see how things would be budget and development wise if the Pentagon had opted for 3 planes instead of attempting to make just one one uber stealth plane.
    Last edited by conon394; July 04, 2014 at 07:36 AM.
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  14. #114

    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Too late, and the next generation plane will probably have to combine the air superiority role as well.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  15. #115
    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    You know it would really be fascinating to be able to rewind history and see how things would be budget and development wise if the Pentagon had opted for 3 planes instead of attempting to make just one one uber stealth plane.
    It certainly would. I think the "winner takes all" approach to JSF was a really bad move for everybody... except the winner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    Too late, and the next generation plane will probably have to combine the air superiority role as well.
    Well isn't it strange that now there's no chance of any more F-22s being purchased the F-35 has suddenly become an all singing all dancing unbeatable air-air platform as well.

    Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good.
    Last edited by Pielstick; July 04, 2014 at 09:21 AM.


  16. #116
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good.
    No not really it was bad ideal to start and it not getting any better fast, but it is what is.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #117
    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    So in other words get ready to spread your cheeks really wide again for Uncle Lockheed in a few years when he's managed to convince everyone that we need "6th gen" to fend off the Sino-Russian bogeyman hordes.
    Last edited by Pielstick; July 04, 2014 at 03:07 PM.


  18. #118

    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Probably in development now; if stealth is still a major requirement, unless Boeing is willing to pony up their own funds for research, it's Lock(ed)-In.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  19. #119
    Shneckie's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Quote Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Operators

    Saudis are only ones with DU.

    Stav, Challenger II has DU too.
    Chally 2 doesn't have DU in it's armour, well at least it hasn't been disclosed whether it does or not. The composition of the Challenger 2's Dorchester armour is classified.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Some unrelated recent military procurment storiess since I am getting bored of the Ukrane

    Maybe they should have stuck on reactive armour, to make up the difference/
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