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Thread: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

  1. #1

    Icon1 Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    DESCRIPTION:

    This mod is a naval overhaul based on real physics, and real naval movement, and tweaked to offer a great game play compromise. It is designed for the Mod Divide et Impera (DeI) and suited to the battle pace of this mod

    REQUIREMENTS:

    It requires DeI to work, and needs to be loaded first. This will happen automatically if loaded with the official mod manager, or will need to be placed before Divide et impera part1 if using the TWC community mod manager.

    WHAT THIS MOD OFFERS:

    1. Realistic naval physics, offering a slower battle pace that allows the player to make strategic decisions, without being outmatched in a "who rams first wins" battle by an AI capable of delivering orders at a fast pace.

    2. Specific naval strengths and weaknesses between Hellenistic and barbarian ships. Where the former as slower and sluggish compared but are able to ram effectively, and were the latter behave more like agile and sturdy transports for boarding.


    3. Extended naval movement (for navies, transports inherit their movement points from their armies but still have a fairly decent range). with extended naval movement your navies finally are able to support your advance and quickly reinforce your backyard, introducing a new element of strategy to the game.

    4. The hit points of all ships have been overhauled to represent their real life mass, construction and size.

    5. The ramming dynamics have been completely overhauled, where Heavy ships cause massive ramming damage, but find it very hard to manoeuvre for a second hit unless they have sufficient space to manoeuvre. Medium ships deliver sizeable damage but still fell sluggish, and light ships do considerable less damage but are far easier to manoeuvre for a multiple hits.

    6. Barbarian ships inherit the transports ramming ability becoming considerably less useful for that purpose, and puts them on disadvantage on open sea battles against Hellenistic fleets as it would have been on ancient Roman times. (This change is under revision and may be eliminated if I find it goes against game-play, either through my own experience or community feedback)

    7. The ignition and explosion mechanics have been overhauled, conveniently reducing the ignition threshold, and vastly increasing the explosive damage of fire pots ships. This change aims to balance the fighting capabilities of different types of ships, were fleets consisting largely of ranged ships had and immense advantage over fleets designed to ram and board, forcing admirals to use balanced fleets.

    8. Ships will no longer sink immediately after being ignited, but will take damage overtime like it would happen in the real world, but do become a lot easier to sink.

    COMPATIBILITY:

    + Divide et Impera v 0.9f (Required for this mod to work) NOTE: ONLY THE STEAM FILES ARE UPDATED
    + Any graphical mods
    + Any mods that change turns per year, or technology tree changes
    + Patch 11
    - Not compatible with other battle overhauls
    - Mods modifying the following tables need to be placed after this mod on the loading order, for this overhaul to work as intended:

    a. battle_entities_tables
    b. naval_ramming_event_tables
    c. naval_units_tables
    d. projectiles_explosions_tables

    - Even if placed before this mod other mods modifying such tables may be overwritten by mine if they are based of the DeI tables, and not their own tables.


    DOWNLOAD

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=247326741
    or

    Check attachment




    CREDITS


    @alecwermuth for all the research, and most ideas behind this mod. This mod is based on his Authentic Ancient World for DeI and modified to be more game play friendly regarding battle speed and movement, based on my experience with it. Alec, mate, thanks for sharing your work without looking for glory or the "copyright big corporation" attitude that many modders have taken

    To the Divide et Impera team for making Rome total war 2 the game it deserved to be, and specially to @dresden for his tutorials on the TWC that have been fundamental for many of us "noob" modders

    And finally to the CA for creating this game and continuing to support it

    Please feel free to provide feedback
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by andrewdrakelive; June 13, 2014 at 05:50 AM. Reason: UPDATE FOR .9F

  2. #2
    Libertus
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    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Sounds great...i'll give it a try asap

  3. #3

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Great MOD! It really improves naval aspect of the game (both in battles and in campaign).

  4. #4

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Nice man will try it out.
    ITS ME "THE DUDE" AND I STILL HATE ELEPHANTS!!!!!

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  5. #5
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    I reinstalled R2 when I heard of the naval combat changes of AAW. Just to find out AAW was discontinued. So you really saved me !

    I tried it, and its really cool ! No more autoresolve 4 me :-)
    " Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! "

  6. #6

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Ignition rate is way to high. One salvo from 100+ archers burns down even heaviest ships and that "Ships will no longer sink immediately after being ignited, but will take damage overtime" means like 10 seconds. :/ Isn't it possible to make fires akin to earlier warscape games when flames had chance be put down doing only minor damage and causing morale shock? Now ships are more flameable then bronze gates treated with magical torches.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soontir View Post
    Ignition rate is way to high. One salvo from 100+ archers burns down even heaviest ships and that "Ships will no longer sink immediately after being ignited, but will take damage overtime" means like 10 seconds. :/ Isn't it possible to make fires akin to earlier warscape games when flames had chance be put down doing only minor damage and causing morale shock? Now ships are more flameable then bronze gates treated with magical torches.
    Agreed. But other naval battle mechanics is more realistic then vanilla DEI.

  8. #8
    Hetairos's Avatar Roma Surrectum II
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    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soontir View Post
    Ignition rate is way to high. One salvo from 100+ archers burns down even heaviest ships and that "Ships will no longer sink immediately after being ignited, but will take damage overtime" means like 10 seconds. :/ Isn't it possible to make fires akin to earlier warscape games when flames had chance be put down doing only minor damage and causing morale shock? Now ships are more flameable then bronze gates treated with magical torches.
    As this mod bases on AAW I have tested this and I must say UNLESS this is NOT the exact copy of my mod that it definitely does not take a ship of archers to ignite ships. To be able to ignite ships in AAW you need to focus fire of multiple ships onto one single target. SO my educated guess is that in this mod one of the ignition tables was not transferred (because its not only the battle entities table and the naval fire junctions table, but it is also important to use the naval unit table where one can find the ignition threshold).

    Secondly, the concept about ignition and ship hull damage is as it was meant to be. Ignition reflects the threshold and likeliness of a ship to catch fire and it does regenerate over time (which means the crew trying to put out the fires constantly) HOWEVER once the fire/ignition threshold is too high the ship will start to take damage slowly, reflecting the situation where the ship has cought so much fire that it is not possible anymore to put it out and once this is the case the ship hull will automatically take damage over time. Smaller ships will take damage faster than bigger ones reflecting the area that need to burn down. Once the entire ship is burned down it reaches 100% damage and it will sink ONLY than and not before.

    So hope this helps and maybe andrew can take a look and see where the problem is.

    Cheers

  9. #9

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by alecwermuth View Post
    As this mod bases on AAW I have tested this and I must say UNLESS this is NOT the exact copy of my mod that it definitely does not take a ship of archers to ignite ships. To be able to ignite ships in AAW you need to focus fire of multiple ships onto one single target. SO my educated guess is that in this mod one of the ignition tables was not transferred (because its not only the battle entities table and the naval fire junctions table, but it is also important to use the naval unit table where one can find the ignition threshold).

    Secondly, the concept about ignition and ship hull damage is as it was meant to be. Ignition reflects the threshold and likeliness of a ship to catch fire and it does regenerate over time (which means the crew trying to put out the fires constantly) HOWEVER once the fire/ignition threshold is too high the ship will start to take damage slowly, reflecting the situation where the ship has cought so much fire that it is not possible anymore to put it out and once this is the case the ship hull will automatically take damage over time. Smaller ships will take damage faster than bigger ones reflecting the area that need to burn down. Once the entire ship is burned down it reaches 100% damage and it will sink ONLY than and not before.

    So hope this helps and maybe andrew can take a look and see where the problem is.

    Cheers
    I tested it one more and if used without "Siege & Artillery Overhaul for "Divide et Impera" (AAW based)" mod, its work as intended. But when if this two mods used in conjuction then archers kill much of the crew in 2-3 arrows volleys and burn vessels in notime.

  10. #10
    Hetairos's Avatar Roma Surrectum II
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    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    roger that, so the problem is that in the artillery mod the entire projectile table has been included, so the projectiles table from the artillery overhaul contains archers, javelins etc. those should be removed so only artillery projectiles will be implemented.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    @Soontir I have not had this experience with ships burning so fast, are you using any other mods?

    @alecwermuth this mod is not an exact copy of your AAW since I modified the data to speed up the ships, and specially transports, however I did not modify the rest of the tables since I was quite happy with the way it was handled in AAW, therefore ignition mechanics have been unchanged, but I may have to look into it.

    @deoved there is no conflict of tables between the two mods, and it is true that the projectiles tables includes javelins and archers, mainly because I added my javelin range mod to the artillery pack. However the projectiles tables in AAW also had javelins and arrows in them so that would mean that in that mod the dynamic would have been the same. Besides that the projectiles table of the siege mod are identical to the latest version of DEI with the exception of the artillery projectiles. If I would not have modified the values of the siege mod would have overwriten DeI's projectiles tables and you would be playing with the dynamics before the last revision (for those changes on the projectiles read the download post).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    DEI, Yuki's historical development and this. Before patch 11 I used some early version of naval AAW and it looked more balanced. Especialy aceleration diferences made light ships much more usefull. Here raiding hemolia I think was catched by direme.
    I increased ignition treshold x3 and it feels much better now. Fire exchange between hepteres do ~15% fire damage per salvo. Also I noticed that one burning ship stopped reciving damage with hull at 3%, but that could be bug as I don't think something like this is achievable by simple table changes.

    How fire mechanic exactly works? In projectile table I've seen only 5 arbitrous ignition chances. How they're related to numerical treshold? Fire damage goes down by set value per second or percentage?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewdrakelive View Post
    @Soontir I have not had this experience with ships burning so fast, are you using any other mods?

    @alecwermuth this mod is not an exact copy of your AAW since I modified the data to speed up the ships, and specially transports, however I did not modify the rest of the tables since I was quite happy with the way it was handled in AAW, therefore ignition mechanics have been unchanged, but I may have to look into it.

    @deoved there is no conflict of tables between the two mods, and it is true that the projectiles tables includes javelins and archers, mainly because I added my javelin range mod to the artillery pack. However the projectiles tables in AAW also had javelins and arrows in them so that would mean that in that mod the dynamic would have been the same. Besides that the projectiles table of the siege mod are identical to the latest version of DEI with the exception of the artillery projectiles. If I would not have modified the values of the siege mod would have overwriten DeI's projectiles tables and you would be playing with the dynamics before the last revision (for those changes on the projectiles read the download post).
    Well.. this is flaming arrow stats from Naval Overhaul:
    Code:
    arrow_flaming    arrow    small_arm_flaming        none    1    fixed    130    0    40    60    15    0    28    0        low            False    False    0,1    24    0    45    2    0    10    10    arrow_flaming        arrow_flaming    -1    False        False
    One arrow valley gives 20-27% fire damage.

    Then i tried to use flaming arrow stats from Sloower Battle submod:
    Code:
    arrow_flaming    arrow    small_arm_flaming        none    1    low    125    0    88    45    5    1    16    0        very_low    False    False    0,1    35    0    30    3,5    0    10    10    arrow_flaming        arrow_flaming    -1    False        False
    One valley gives 3-6% fire damage, i think its more realistic and appropriate.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    @soontir I reckon the way to go is like you said increasing the ignition threshold tell me how you go in the long run, I may test that myself, maybe 2x so we have two different test

    @deoved the naval overhaul has no projectile tables; I assume you refer to the siege overhaul, in that case those are DEI values, since I did not modify arrow values at all. I don't use sloower battle mod and his values are tuned for a slower pace of battle, a lot slower than DEI as far as I know. I don't want to modify DEI's projectile balance beyond artillery in the siege mod for compatibility, however if it works for you give it a go and by all means report your experience.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Ignition threshold has been increased a 50%, please report the effects of this change

  16. #16

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    I can't get my ships to board with this mod?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Not bad not bad at all i actually will play naval battles now where as before i would get beaten badly in 20 vs 20 naval clashes due to not being able to control in time the action.

    Few notes though are you able to balance the bonus schemes for naval better eg hull improvements i dont think they balance well with the much higher hull health as there very little difference between a ship with no hull improvements and one that has level 2 improvements. Also is it possible to increase the amount of men on naval boats as if you do get caught in a naval boarding by a transport ship ( hey it happens even slowed down 20 vs 20 is still pretty hectic) your going to lose and it would make ships more effective also when landing for naval port assaults. But all in all great stuff wish they would do something like this in the main mod soon.

    Edit AUBOY i found i had to rama ship from behind or directly in front and when they were sort of locked together end to end then click for boarding action always seemed to work for me.
    Last edited by Soul Firez; April 16, 2014 at 10:33 AM.

    Heroes Hordes & beyond The official submod of KGCM (click the sig)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Firez View Post
    Not bad not bad at all i actually will play naval battles now where as before i would get beaten badly in 20 vs 20 naval clashes due to not being able to control in time the action.

    Few notes though are you able to balance the bonus schemes for naval better eg hull improvements i dont think they balance well with the much higher hull health as there very little difference between a ship with no hull improvements and one that has level 2 improvements. Also is it possible to increase the amount of men on naval boats as if you do get caught in a naval boarding by a transport ship ( hey it happens even slowed down 20 vs 20 is still pretty hectic) your going to lose and it would make ships more effective also when landing for naval port assaults. But all in all great stuff wish they would do something like this in the main mod soon.

    Edit AUBOY i found i had to rama ship from behind or directly in front and when they were sort of locked together end to end then click for boarding action always seemed to work for me.
    I see could you get the ram button to work I had trouble with that as well...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Quote Originally Posted by auboy View Post
    I see could you get the ram button to work I had trouble with that as well...
    you couldnt get the ram button to work ?? i assume you mean with skirmisher units if so you know you need to click the melee( crossed swords button) first .. of note i have only gotten them to board directly after a ram move not once have i gotten them to board directly a ship which honestly i like.

    Heroes Hordes & beyond The official submod of KGCM (click the sig)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Naval Overhaul for Divide et Impera (AAW based)

    Boarding action need similar momentum and angle as raming. With slower speeds and acelerations it harder to achieve.

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