On TH 3.1 are high elf sword quendi OP

[Lurtz700]

Hey everyone but on 3.1 I discovered on my Isen campaign even if I get the best charge possible with my berserkers on sword quendi they will destroy them even if I have units shooting into he elves flank please (Im 3.1)

[Flinn]

Hi mate,

from the startegic point of view Berserkers should be able to match sword quendi without problems (on 1vs1 for sure) so either the units are really unbalanced (but I never tried 3.1) or you are doing something wrong, but I can't say with the few info I have, my bad

Anyway, supposing that this is a balance issue ,I don't think that there can be anything you can do if you are not a modder yourself, as actually TATW has been "closed" by the mod leader at version 3.2; in the submod forum you can find TATW 4.4 unofficial (alternative) patch from Leo, but I've not tried it so I'm not sure how is the balance of the units atm, sorry.

Furthermore, there is plenty of other submods which surely modify balance, but you can ask directly on the threads, here is the link for the submod forum http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...?1154-Sub-Mods

alternatively, if you are a modder, you can ask here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...nd-Help-Thread to expert modders on how and where you need to modify the units to rebalance them.

hope this helps

[Ngugi]

Hello Lurtz'

Would argue there's not really an issue in stats but in how used here.
First because I do not know why it's expected Eldarinwe Swordsmen (warriors with probably centuries of experience and the best gear in the world) should not win against Berserkers (brutes in shorts, hehe)?

Secondly the stats are fair;
Their attack are the same (15) but Berserkers have 4 points greater charge bonus and frighten enemy infantry (decrease their morale; Elven Swordmen however have excellent morale and will not panic until the very end).
Elves have 16 in armour and defence value and while Berserkers instead have 10 they also have 3 hit points in difference to the normal 1 HP for the Elves.
The Elven unit is 60% larger than the Berserker unit (but also more expensive, and in campaigns less avilable).

All in all Berserkers correctly used tear up an enemy unit, especially with a flanking charge, but they are not meant to stay in the fray dueling but should back off and charge again in the back, while some cheaper units hold the enemy occupied fighting.
That's what they are meant for, think of them as cavalry on foot, with the difference they cause fear and can draw back out of a melee with few losses more easily because of their HP.

type             Elf Sword
dictionary       Elf_Sword      ; Eldarinwë Swordsmen
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_infantry
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Elf_Sword, 48, 0, 1.2
officer             highel_captain_early_flag
mount_effect     elephant +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, free_upkeep_unit
move_speed_mod   1.1
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health      1, 3
stat_pri         15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  9, 7, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        6
stat_ground      0, -2, 1, -1
stat_mental      16, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 820, 310, 100, 100, 820, 2, 250
armour_ug_levels 3, 4
armour_ug_models Elf_Sword, Elf_Sword_upg
ownership        egypt
era 0            egypt
era 1            egypt
era 2            egypt
recruit_priority_offset    5


type             Berserkers
dictionary       Berserkers      ; Berserkers
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_infantry
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Uruk_Berserkers, 30, 0, 8.0
officer             isengard_captain_early_flag
mount_effect     elephant +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, frighten_foot, free_upkeep_unit
formation        1.5, 1.5, 3.0, 3.0, 5, square
stat_health      3, 2
stat_pri         15, 12, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  6, 4, 0, leather
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 0, -2
stat_mental      16, normal, trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 640, 250, 85, 85, 640, 2, 250
armour_ug_levels 2, 3
armour_ug_models Uruk_Berserkers, Uruk_Berserkers_upg
ownership        france
era 0            france
era 1            france
era 2            france
recruit_priority_offset    10

To edit starts is however easy and save game compatible.
Check the top of the export_descr_unit.txt-file and you'll see each line (well, almost) described and what the numbers mean