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Thread: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

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    Default OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}


    Tactical Commander is a battle realism submod for Imperial Splendour
    .
    The Current Version is 2.0
    The Tactical Commander is a trial Battle Mechanic adjustment submod with the purpose of providing a more historically accurate portrayal of 18th century combat while creating a more challenging game-play. There are, however, a number of challenges. We are limited to what we can and cannot modify and the A.I. is limited to what it can handle. The following is the result of countless hours of testing and adjustment and it is a work in progress. To ensure accuracy and playability, you are asked to give feedback in this thread. The final version of Tactical Commander will be included in all future updates Imperial Splendour mods and it will be part of Imperial Splendour III. Please note: if you are participating my Campaign A.I. Beta test, you do NOT need to download this. It is part of the testing.
    YOUR OPINION IS IMPORTANT TO US



    ANNOUNCEMENT
    1. Below I had stated that I will update to a 2.1 Naval and a 2.2 Land. However, I had issues with Steam and I had to reinstall steam. Unfortunately, my most recent changes were kept in the same folder and I foolishly did not back it up. This means I need to redo everything. As a result, much larger changes will be made to make battle more challenging.
    2. Lastly, I will not make a version for Rise of the Republic. Tactical Commander will be integrated into the mod directly. When updates are made, a patch will be provided.


    ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
    Special thanks for Darth Vader and the Darthmod Empire Development team for use of their groupformation mod.
    In the future the group formation will be adjusted to be more historically accurate PER FACTION without sacrificing gameplay

    Special thanks also to the following modders who contributed through discussion and advise
    wangrin | Kaunitz | JaM | Didz, Bethencourt (Naval) | Goutlard (Naval) |
    And many more exceptional modders!


    INFORMATION AND ADVICE
    General Information
    Imperial Splendour is committed to producing the most historically accurate modification possible without sacrificing challenging game- play. The goal of this mod is to create a more realistic feel to battles. It is also meant to be MORE challenging. In some cases, sacrifices of realism was made to create a more challenging outcome.


    Visual: The men in units stand too far apart. In this mod, units stand in tighter formation reflecting historical accuracy of the time.
    Morale: Units are more sensitive to casualties than in the actual mod and in vanilla. In land battles, units are more sensitive to casualties, so units will no longer continue to fight losing 40% or 75% of their men. Units are also more sensitive to being attacked in the flanks, so it is advisable to retreat if the possibility of being flank exist. (The rear has not bee reduce in order to promote retreats). Units will also recover from being routed. They will generally retreat a safe distance, but too far from the battle. Cavalry are also very sensitive. Three things happens in a charge [1] You win the initial contact / the other 'bounce" [2] Your unit 'bounce' and the other side wins the contact OR [3] Both units 'bounce' In this case, 'bounce' means route. While cavalry units will recover, in some cases, they do route off the map. This is historically accurate. It is important to use your mounted units carefully. However, there is still never a bad time for a cavalry charge!
    Fatigue: The mod does not use 'fatigue' Instead I use 'cohesion'. That is how effective can units stay under command and follow orders. Shooting, running, fighting all reduces cohesion. AS a unit loses cohesion, there effectiveness and accuracy is reduced. Also Cavalry units will lose cohesion when charging and attacking units. You will not longer be able to charge about the battlefield.
    Weapons: Artillery, Naval, and land units have had their effectiveness or accuracy reduced to be more accurate. Artillery reduces morale of units it is shooting at.

    Basic Advice


    • The best result setting is Hard. Expert/ Very Hard setting makes it very difficult to win a battle. Start with Normal and play a custom battle before starting a campaign.
    • Weapons accuracy has been reduced. Plus as your men lose cohesion (fatigue) their accuracy effectiveness decreases. Therefore, it is not advisable to shoot at maximum range. If possible, march up at least have the distance, then open with a volley. You will find you inflict twice as many casaulties than you took marching.
    • Cavalry can lose cohesion (fatigue) more easily. There are three things that can happen when you charge with cavalry and two of them are bad. (This is mentioned above)
      1. - Your unit will bounce (route)
      2. - Both you and the AI's units will bounce
      3. - The AI's unit will bounce

      It was not uncommon for cavalry to engage and run off the battlefield. So use them wisely. Once I cause a unit to route, I usually do not let them chase too long.
    • Be sure to have reserve units. The AI will attempt to take the flank. So cover you flank. If your units flank is attack they will route.
    • Protect your skirmishes and light infantry. The AI will chase them down with mounted troops.


    List of Basic Features




    • Reduction of movement of all units
    • Land units are in tighter more historically accurate formations
    • Weapons are less accurate
    • Land units weapons accuracy decreases with reduction of cohesion (fatigue)
    • Land units morale is affected when other units route around them (Panic and route as well)
    • Land units are affected more by being flanked (routes easier)
    • Land units realistically recover from being routed
    • Mounted units are more sensitive- looses cohesion easier (no longer able to charge about the battlefield without losing cohesion and routing)
    • Casualties are more historically accurate for the time period
    • Battles will be more tactical oriented than a last man standing blood bath associated with TW games.
    • FUTURE ADJUSTMENT: To encourage the A.I. to charge, I am currently testing. When completed, I will update to 2.2 UPDATED(30Sept2016): Changes will be larger to the 3.0 version]




    • Naval Battles have a more realistic feel to them
    • Naval units move more slower and maneuverability are reduce to reflect historical accuracy
    • Naval units will most likely route than surrendering
    • Surrendering has been reduced, but not impossible to achieve in small battles. (This is more historically accurate)
    • Ships sinking will rarely occur. (Historically ships took heavy damage, but would normally not sink)
    • Naval weapons accuracy has been reduce to reflect the difficulty it was to hit a moving target on an unstable platform, like a ship.
    • Naval gunners will become less accurate has they lose cohesion (fatigue).
    • Demasting harder to achieve. Completely demasting a ship before surrendering or routing is more difficult than in in vanilla
    • Magazine exploding frequency reduced.
    • Game- Play Change: The morale effect of casualties has been reduced. This was done to reduce likelihood of ships surrendering in large battles.
    • FUTURE ADJUSTMENT: To shortened naval battles I am currently testing; when completed, it will update to version 2.1

    Change Log History

    UPDATE 17 January 2016.
    • The Mod is now IS Launcher compatible.

    UPDATE 31 MARCH 2015
    • Increase morale reduction for flanking maneuvers
    • Lowered the Charge bonus (it was set too high)
    • Increase damage chain shot has on sails
    • Change the Morale effect for hull damaged (ships were taken incredible damage and still fighting) <--- mostly will increase this more.

    UPDATE 27 APRIL 2014
    • Added the Admiralty Addition

    UPDATE 30 MARCH 2014
    • Version 1 released


    Change Log v2.1- Naval Improvements [Please Note: I had intentions of updating with 2.1 Naval Improvements, but I had issues with steam and needed to reinstall it. Unfortunately, my naval changes were in the folder removed from the uninstalling of steam, so I had to redo everything I had done. The Naval Improvement will now be part of a larger Land and Naval improvement to the full version of 3.0]

    • Projectile damage effect increased
    • Fatigue effects on firing accuracy increased
    • Game Play: Boarding was given a negative effect to inhibit the A.I from overusing the tactic
    • Various changes to surrender variable to reduce the chance of ships surrendering.
    • Altered modifiers for close and far range accuracy and effectiveness.
    • Ships that initially take heavy damage will route , while other ships can battle on if damages are sustained over the battle.



    DOWNLOADS AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS



    VERSION 2.O DOWNLOAD LINKS [UPDATED: 31 March 2015] [UPDATED: 17 January 2016]

    IF THE IMAGE FAILS TO SHOW YOU MAY CLICK HERE: v2.2.1b : DOWNLOAD | Rise of the Republic : DOWNLOAD



    Nec Aspera Compatibility Patch NOT YET AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD
    v2.2.1b : DOWNLOAD | Rise of the Republic : DOWNLOAD


    INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

    Below there are two ways to install the mod.
    STEP 1: Unzip file
    Steps 2 & 3 depends on your personal preferences on how you launch Imperial Splendour 2.21b.
    (Please note: Rise of the Republic does not have a launcher, so please follow the direction for Empire.exe launcher).

    IF USING THE IS LAUNCHER
    STEP 2: Place the pack file in your IS Folder
    The Directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data\IS
    STEP 3:
    Place the user.empire_script file in the IS folder and click "yes" to overwrite the file.

    IF USING THE EMPIRE.EXE LAUNCHER
    STEP: 2: Place the pack file in your data folder.
    The Directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data
    STEP 3: Place the user.empire_script file in the following directory
    C:\Users\[your name\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Empire\scripts

    Your user.empire_script (Version 2.2.1b)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "IS_TC_221bv2.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_BSM_4_1_Medium.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_no_forts.pack";

    Your user.empire_script (Version Rise of the Republic)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "TC_RotR.v2.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "ISBeffecto.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_Early_Britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";


    IF DONE RIGHT, THE GAME MENU WILL APPEAR LIKE THIS
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    I want to reiterate the importance of feedback. Please do let me know of any problems or if you have any questions.
    Last edited by PikeStance; July 09, 2017 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Updated 2/4/2014
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
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    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


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    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: Tactical Enhancement (BETA) Coming Soon

    ARCHIVED VERSIONS



    BETA VERSION

    DOWNLOAD LINKS
    Please click on the image below for your version of the mod


    if no image appears above, please click on the following links: Version 2.2.1b



    if no image appears above, please click on the following links: Rise of the Republic

    Installation instructions
    Unzip file
    Place the pack file in your data folder in the directory below
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data
    Place the user.empire_script file in the following directory
    C:\Users\[your name\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Empire\scripts
    Your user.empire_script (Version 2.2.1b)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "Pike_TC_IS.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_BSM_4_1_Medium.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_no_forts.pack";

    Your user.empire_script (Version Rise of the Republic)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "Pike_TC_RoR.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "ISBeffecto.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_Early_Britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";



    "NEC ASPERA TERRENT - Fall of the Electorate" Compatibility Patch

    Download Link
    Please click on the image

    if no image appears above, please click on the following links: Nec Aspera Terrent Compatibility Patch
    WARNING: You must download the FULL submod here FIRST!!!


    Installation instructions
    Unzip file
    Place the pack files in your data folder in the directory below
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data
    Place the user.empire_script file in the following directory
    C:\Users\[your name\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Empire\scripts
    Your user.empire_script (Version Rise of the Republic)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "Pike_TC_RoR.pack";
    mod "bruinswick_unit_pack.pack";
    mod "Hannover DB.pack";
    mod "Hannover Media.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "ISBeffecto.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_Early_Britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";



    ADMIRALTY ADDITION
    DOWNLOADS AND INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

    DOWNLOAD LINKS

    if no image appears above, please click on the following links: Version 2.2.1b or Rise of the Republic

    Installation instructions
    Please follow the proper instructions.
    If you already have Tactical Commander installed, Click here
    Place the pack file in your data folder in the directory below
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data
    When asked to overwrite the file, click yes.

    [CONTENTBOX=If you do not have Tactical Commander Please click here ]Step 1: Download & Unzip file
    Step 2: Place the pack files in your data folder in the directory below
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Empire Total War\data

    Step 3: Place the user.empire_script file in the following directory
    C:\Users\[your name\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Empire\scripts

    Your user.empire_script (Version 2.2.1b)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "Pike_TC_IS.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_BSM_4_1_Medium.pack";
    mod "IS_mod_no_forts.pack";

    Your user.empire_script (Version Rise of the Republic)
    Your user.empire_script should like this
    Code:
    mod "Pike_TC_RoR.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 DB.pack";
    mod "Imperial Splendour 2_2 Media.pack";
    mod "ISBeffecto.pack";
    mod "IS_Artillery.pack";
    mod "IS_Early_Britain.pack";
    mod "IS_Flags.pack";
    mod "IS_france.pack";
    mod "IS_Horses.pack";
    mod "IS_sounds_musics.pack";





    Last edited by PikeStance; March 30, 2015 at 02:38 AM.
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
    Imperial Splendour is looking for Modders and Researchers. SEE AD HERE
    If interested, contact PikeStance(Mod Leader/Manager) or Quintus Hortensius Hortalus (Mod leader /Lead Artist)

    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


    Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers | House of Noble Discourse

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    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    ATTENTION
    Updated IS_ Rise of Republic file
    There were French artillery that were not properly adjusted. Please download and replace the old file.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
    Imperial Splendour is looking for Modders and Researchers. SEE AD HERE
    If interested, contact PikeStance(Mod Leader/Manager) or Quintus Hortensius Hortalus (Mod leader /Lead Artist)

    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


    Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers | House of Noble Discourse

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    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    ATTENTION
    Added Hanover Submod Patch
    Please see the OP for download and installation instruction.

    Thanks you for your continued support!
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
    Imperial Splendour is looking for Modders and Researchers. SEE AD HERE
    If interested, contact PikeStance(Mod Leader/Manager) or Quintus Hortensius Hortalus (Mod leader /Lead Artist)

    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


    Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers | House of Noble Discourse

  5. #5

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    cool, exited to try this out. Thanks!

  6. #6
    malkekoen's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    This is a great mod and I'm greatly looking forward to the naval implementation as well Keep up the good work! The only issue I have is concerning artillery, which is very powerful. That may be realistic, but it certainly deals a whopping amount of damage! Keep up the good work!

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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Thanks Malkekoen!
    Yes artillery is a real problem. In vanilla, artillery is incredibly powerful. I did my best to reduce the effectiveness and accuracy of the artillery without being ridiculous. Ideally, I would prefer there to be one less piece per unit. (e.g. 3 piece artillery having 2 and 2 piece unit having 1). Many in the mod team thought that looked to aesthetically poor (I agreed, but will offer something later- see below).

    My next alternative is to alter the projectiles having the rounds cause less damage per hit.

    Then again, having them be as effective as they are, it may encourage you to use less of them per army. A possible incentive to less could be to make them more expensive to buy and upkeep.

    Always have this submod as a test even after the mechanic is incorporated into the mod. So, they will always be an alternative for supporters of IS.
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
    Imperial Splendour is looking for Modders and Researchers. SEE AD HERE
    If interested, contact PikeStance(Mod Leader/Manager) or Quintus Hortensius Hortalus (Mod leader /Lead Artist)

    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


    Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers | House of Noble Discourse

  8. #8
    malkekoen's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Thanks for the answer. I can imagine there are lots of hard decisions to be made. I'm no expert, and artillery should probably be deadly. What about accuracy? They were probably not too accurate at that time... I think one of the major issues are with canister shots, maybe reduce range and increase spread even more? I like the historical approach and believe you should try to match the performance of the real-lufe counterparts. As to increased upkeep and number of guns per unit, maybe there are some historical sources as to the composition and costs of maintaining artillery?

    But all that is for fine tuning, I really enjoy the realism of this mod! The firefights are cool and seem plausible. Maybe the moral is a slight tad low, sometimes units flee fast especially in melee. Maybe the melee kill rate could be tuned down as to allow slightly longer fights rather than contact then instant break?

  9. #9
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    JaM did a very good work with artillery, mixing historical sources with gameplay.
    Moreover, I have several books about artillery. Some of them, such as Belidor's "Le bombardier françois", Pierre Surirey de Saint Remy "Mémoires d'artillerie" or the "Aide Mémoire à l'Usage des Officiers d'Artillerie de France" are true goldmines.
    You can find them in google book...

    Accuracy highly depend of range, barrel type, as well as hit type.
    Direct hit was not the most efficient to kill troops, using bouncing was far more efficient... but far less accurate (and accuracy was already low...)

    But accuracy isn't the only parameter to care about.
    Powder qualities was an other, impacting range as well as misfire rate.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  10. #10
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Quote Originally Posted by malkekoen View Post
    Thanks for the answer. I can imagine there are lots of hard decisions to be made. I'm no expert, and artillery should probably be deadly. What about accuracy? They were probably not too accurate at that time... I think one of the major issues are with canister shots, maybe reduce range and increase spread even more? I like the historical approach and believe you should try to match the performance of the real-lufe counterparts. As to increased upkeep and number of guns per unit, maybe there are some historical sources as to the composition and costs of maintaining artillery?
    As wangrin stated, artillery was not very accurate. They are more of a moral reducer than a casualty causer. I try to represent this by reducing accuracy to almost nil (especially at long range) and increasing the effect it had on morale. This took some balancing because units will be shot at and run so I had to play with it a bit. The problem with the artillery is when it does it, it causes massive casualties (relatively speaking). I wanted units to "freak" a bit if they took sudden casualties. It was one of those things when you were going for one effect, it caused another. I had to find a balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by malkekoen View Post
    But all that is for fine tuning, I really enjoy the realism of this mod! The firefights are cool and seem plausible. Maybe the moral is a slight tad low, sometimes units flee fast especially in melee. Maybe the melee kill rate could be tuned down as to allow slightly longer fights rather than contact then instant break?
    I decided to give an added bonus to attacking in melee. I did this because I felt like this was a better advantage for the AI. If you spend too much time focus on one area and the AI decides to charge you, I wanted the human to pay dearly. Another reason is I wanted to give an advantage to "attacking" play. If the human decides to "defend" instead of attacking, I wanted the human to be at a slight disadvantage. Also, unless I read wrong, most melee engagements were short and sweet affairs.

    Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely a work in progress. I hope to hear more from you and any one else who is playing the mod.

    On the Naval Update
    I manage to get ships from surrendering so easily. However, I have a situation where boats switch from wavering, to routing, to wavering, to routing etc... I fought two 40 and 60 minutes battles to a draw. Plus ships are taking too much damage to be believable. ..... I feel I am close though!
    MODDERS WANTED | MY PATRONAGES
    Imperial Splendour is looking for Modders and Researchers. SEE AD HERE
    If interested, contact PikeStance(Mod Leader/Manager) or Quintus Hortensius Hortalus (Mod leader /Lead Artist)

    Under the Patronage of Omnipotent- Q | Member of the House of Wild Bill Kelso
    Patron of
    _Tataros_
    | Magister Militum Flavius Aetius | Alwyn | Lord Oda Nobunaga | Massive_attack |
    Proposed the Following for PHALERA: Mangalore & sumskilz | OPIFEX: wangrin, z3n, and Swiss Halberdier


    Honourable Society of Silly Old Duffers | House of Noble Discourse

  11. #11

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Pike, feel free to use whatever you see fit from ER4, i can even send you my latest files with version that was not released yet. especially naval part was quite overhauled, you might find some inspiration there..

    one of things i plan to do in the near/distant future, is to make sure that naval battles end up with ships routed and not surrendered. Naval battles were usually not that decisive CA made them to be, sunken ships were quite rare, surrendered a bit more but not much.. it would be best if ships routed from heavy damage, and then just tried to get out.. so battle could be ended much faster by routing enemy ships instead of forcing all to surrender. this can be done via rally timeout, if it is set high enough, ships wont rally so fast, making morale even more important factor.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Pike, feel free to use whatever you see fit from ER4, i can even send you my latest files with version that was not released yet. especially naval part was quite overhauled, you might find some inspiration there..

    one of things i plan to do in the near/distant future, is to make sure that naval battles end up with ships routed and not surrendered. Naval battles were usually not that decisive CA made them to be, sunken ships were quite rare, surrendered a bit more but not much.. it would be best if ships routed from heavy damage, and then just tried to get out.. so battle could be ended much faster by routing enemy ships instead of forcing all to surrender. this can be done via rally timeout, if it is set high enough, ships wont rally so fast, making morale even more important factor.
    I used ER3 and Goutlard's naval mod as a basis to start my adventure. I don't know who I borrowed more from at this point..haha. You know I never look a gift horse in the mouth; anything you would like to share I am all ears.

    I do not have access to the extensive library like wangrin, but wikipedia in this case seems to be ok to give me a basic idea. When you compare the ships captured in battle to the number of naval battles, you quickly come to the conclusion that captured ships in a full scale battle was rare. It seems most of the time ships were destroyed as a result of being damaged beyond repair. Also the majority of captured ships seem to have taken place in one on one or in small skirmishes.

    For the moment, I have goten rid of the "surrendering ships" problem and replaced it with the cycle of route, waver, route, waver, route waver. Ships will "flicker" like this on and off. Since they all do not route at the same time, the battle never ends until the time runs out. While this will achieve the common "tactical indecisive" battles, this will also make impossible for a decisive engagements which did happen. I prefer ships to route and STAY in route. Apparently, they don't follow the same rule as land units...what a shame. How easy would that have been?

    [tidbit- I noticed that the AI kept boarding my ships but it wouldn't be too much in a rush to do it. When I looked at the numbers I figure out why. I think the AI was trying to stop itself from wavering by boarding, thus getting a morale boost. I lowered the value and the problem went away...LOL, sneaky little devil! / side note: it would be good to adjust for pirates only.]
    A nice metaphor of naval battles
    Last edited by PikeStance; April 24, 2014 at 03:59 AM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    ER4 is more advanced in terms of naval combat..i'll try to post smewhere ER4.5 i have in my HDD for quite some time, but didnt had time to sit and write all the changes down..

  14. #14
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    ATTENTION
    Added - Pike's Admiralty Addition
    Please see the OP for download and installation instruction.

    NOTES: Please give feedback on how it performs. The more feedback I receive the better and easier it is to make alterations.

    Thanks you for your continued support!
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    malkekoen's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    I'm excited to see the naval improvements there! Thanks for your great work Pike...

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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Okey, after i tested this:
    -General`s bodyguard (and other cavalry?) are too close side to side, when infantry passes trough it gets glitchy and bodyguard sometimes warps around a little
    -Units are too inaccurate, at this range
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    When all 3 volleys had been fired, NOBODY had died... well expect AI`s bodyguard who were in middle of combat during first volley, and even they only lost 1 man... It took 2x3 volleys to kill 3 (or 2) of my men and 1 of theirs.
    -Morale shock for soldiers dying is too big, even militia should be able to hold the ground if they loose 3 men and general is not constantly baby sitting them... But i am still testing this, i might have placed my units badly or something.

    Also i noticed that Prussia´s freikorps are significantly worse than other German faction, like Saxony and Bavaria... They are irregulars while others have line infantry freikorps, and stats are hugely at disadvantage of Prussia. Why?
    I believe this is in 'vanilla mod' and not due to this sub mod.
    Last edited by TheRomanRuler; May 11, 2014 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Added [spoiler][spoiler] around picture

  17. #17
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Just Information

    Each unit represents one battalion. The problem in the 18th century is that there was no consistent number of battalions with a regiment or the number of men among factions and the time period. The unit size was chose for balance and consistency. 200 men is representative of about 600 to 800 men (each man is actually 3/4 men).

    Moreover the casualty in battles (large and small) were between 2-15% for the winner and about 15% to 30% for the losers. There were exception to the rule and the variable do allow that to happen. At least it did in my tests.

    The goal was to make a battle that was tactical and not necessarily bloody. This has ramifications on the campaign map as well. This means the AI won't necessarily be easily dismissed or annihilated by you. This means concentrating your men for one big battle made be a mistake. However, there is still alterations to the CAI that would be made to help being this to life.

    Your battles
    I never experience casualty rate that low unless the units are at maximum distance. You should get in close to inflict maximum casualties. In any event, the only way your unit route with losing 3 men is if they lose them at or near the same time. Losing three would be unusual.

    Generally,... the variables is geared to maximizing the BAI advantages as much as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheRomanRuler View Post
    Okey, after i tested this:
    -General`s bodyguard (and other cavalry?) are too close side to side, when infantry passes trough it gets glitchy and bodyguard sometimes warps around a little
    -Units are too inaccurate, at this range
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    When all 3 volleys had been fired, NOBODY had died... well expect AI`s bodyguard who were in middle of combat during first volley, and even they only lost 1 man... It took 2x3 volleys to kill 3 (or 2) of my men and 1 of theirs.
    -Morale shock for soldiers dying is too big, even militia should be able to hold the ground if they loose 3 men and general is not constantly baby sitting them... But i am still testing this, i might have placed my units badly or something.

    Also i noticed that Prussia´s freikorps are significantly worse than other German faction, like Saxony and Bavaria... They are irregulars while others have line infantry freikorps, and stats are hugely at disadvantage of Prussia. Why?
    I believe this is in 'vanilla mod' and not due to this sub mod.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Hello Pikestance! Your mod looks beautiful and is the talk of the town when it comes to Empire mods, particularly on 4chan. As you mentioned above, you plan on puting this mod as "standard" part of future IS versions. My question is, what is the battle AI like in the main IS currently available? Also is Imperial Splendour 3.0 your next version? Please forgive my ignorance as I was primarily a Darthmod player and have been looking for something else. Your mod is number one on my list.

  19. #19

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Interesting, I'll have to try this out.

  20. #20
    malkekoen's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle AI Tactical Enhancement {{BETA Version}}

    Hi Pike.

    I have now had some time to try the naval changes, and they're great. I really like how ships move, and smaller ships now have a definite advantage in speed and maneuvreability. The thing I suggest would need a little more work is the damage ratio of cannons. It is almost impossible to sink a ship, and chain-shots and canisters are next-to useless.

    I understand that you intent to make it more difficult to gain insane amounts of prize money by allowing ships to rout, but I find I actually capture more ships by catching them with my light ships because they never sink.

    Also, without being an expert in naval warfare, I am inclined to believe that the massive amount of shots a ship can take without it causing any real damage is unrealistic. I also miss a bit the unexpected events like demasting, explosions etc., that now never occur. Granted, it should be rare, but possible.

    I would suggest to up the damage and thus increase the rate of a ship sinking. If you want to do something about the prize money, maybe half the income?

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