Samnites recruitment

[Ano2]

Hey guys just a quick one, should the samnites be recruitable from the mun barracks, or are they supposed to be recruitable from the Auxillia barracks? My history may be off but I though they we're Italian non Romans, who fought alonside the Roman troops... thus making them Auxillia? Just something that has been bugging me.

[nonja121]

Your history is correct. They were defeated by Rome, then were Italian allies until the Social War. Not sure what all happened to them afterwards, though.

I haven't seen them in game, but I don't play as Rome much...

[Dresden]

They are recruitable in the main barracks in the early reforms because the Socii made up an important part of the early Roman force. The concept of "auxiliary" is really more of a later idea that becomes much more important in the Marian/Imperial time periods.

We left in other auxiliaries as an option for the player in case you want to go that route earlier than what happened in history. However, due to the nature of the recruitment options, auxiliaries aren't really necessary or preferable early on.

[skysyk]

Your history is correct. They were defeated by Rome, then were Italian allies until the Social War. Not sure what all happened to them afterwards, though.

I haven't seen them in game, but I don't play as Rome much...

According to Strabo Sulla (yeah, THAT Sulla) wiped them out after the Social War. As far as i recall it was something like "And their towns where reduced to villages, and their villages reduced to dust" or something like that. But this is disputed by modern scholars, as it fits a certain modus operandi of making Sulla a monster even before his bloody involvments in the roman constitutional crisis. More likely the Samnites have been so "romanized", that there was no distinct "samnite" element in their culture and/or archeological remainings, to find proof of their "existence" after 80 BC

[Ano2]

They are recruitable in the main barracks in the early reforms because the Socii made up an important part of the early Roman force. The concept of "auxiliary" is really more of a later idea that becomes much more important in the Marian/Imperial time periods.

We left in other auxiliaries as an option for the player in case you want to go that route earlier than what happened in history. However, due to the nature of the recruitment options, auxiliaries aren't really necessary or preferable early on.

Thanks for the reply Dresden

The problem with this, is two-fold. Firstly there is no reason to recruit the samnite hasati or principes. They are very slightly cheaper versions of the same unit, with lower stats. Why would I bother recruiting them?

Secondly this also gives access to the allied cavalry which completely negates the use of equites.

If I had to choose between the aux (With access to lower quality inf, but higher quality cav) or mun (with better inf and worse cav) I think it would be better. Any thoughts from others on this?

[skysyk]

Thanks for the reply Dresden

The problem with this, is two-fold. Firstly there is no reason to recruit the samnite hasati or principes. They are very slightly cheaper versions of the same unit, with lower stats. Why would I bother recruiting them?

Secondly this also gives access to the allied cavalry which completely negates the use of equites.

If I had to choose between the aux (With access to lower quality inf, but higher quality cav) or mun (with better inf and worse cav) I think it would be better. Any thoughts from others on this?

Your mindest is completely on maximum efficency gameplay ^^ I for myself am going for an "as historical as possible" game, which for example means, that my gameplay in the early stages is like the following:

Legio I Consularis:
1 General, mounted (represents the Roman Citizen Cavalry)
3 Velites
3 Hastati
3 Hastati Socii
3 Princeps
3 Princes Socii
1 Triari
1 Triari Socci (i think they are called something like "Pedites Extraordinarii ?)
2 Socii Cavalry

Then i have another Legio II Consularis with the same amount of troops.

And only in Times of dire need, i create two Legio Proconsularis I even switch out Generals every year based on a random number generator (roman voting is a , you know ^^)

So for me this is perfect: There are the Roman Troops, which are more expensive (because they are not plowing their fields while they are on campaign) and the cheaper Socii, which you only have to feed, because your Itallic Allies feed them.

Its perfect! But there is also your way, playing to win, or play your own mindset of history. Its a game after all, and no history book ^^

[Ano2]

Your assumption makes zero sense. Lets see if you can figure out why.

[skysyk]

Your assumption makes zero sense. Lets see if you can figure out why.

Come on, entertain me, enlighten me!

[Ano2]

If I wanted 'maximum efficency gameplay' then I would want to leave it as it is. That way I only need a mun barracks to build the best inf and best cav. I was trying to see if there was a consensus on the idea of samnites being transferred to the aux barracks, thus requiring us to build one as well as a mun barracks to get the best mix of troops. I kind of thought of samnites as aux to the romans and was therefore confused as to why they weren't in the aux barracks.

[skysyk]

But they wheren't Auxilia in the way auxilia is represented in the game. They where an integral part of the roman army of that time.

[UsulDaNeriak]

More likely the Samnites have been so "romanized", that there was no distinct "samnite" element in their culture and/or archeological remainings, to find proof of their "existence" after 80 BC

All italian tribes got roman citizen rights after the social war (except non-roman cities and tribes in Cisalpina). Marian reforms were in place too after 90 BC. So Samnites were recruited as standard roman legionaries now. Well, just the ones who survived Sulla, of course.

Auxilia did exist before the marian reforms, but they have been rather allies or mercenaries. A mid-republican consular roman double legion usually was composed of one roman legion and one "legion of the socii" structured similary. Also the socii provided 3 alae of cavalry and the romans just 1. Actually even later, during late republic, the auxiliae were rather allies (e.g. the gallic Aedui or numidian cavalry) or mercenaries ( e.g. german cavalry). It was Augustus, who finally restructured the army fundamentally with auxilia (mostly peregrini, but inhabitants of the empire), legions (roman citizens) and a bit later numeri (irregular units, militia or sometimes outlandish mercenaries).

The solution ingame is not that bad. You could call the socii the precedessors of the auxilia. At least some socii-units performed the role, the romans could not, like later the auxilia and numeri.