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Thread: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

  1. #1
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    This topic is only for the finalists and the admins of the final, refrain from posting if you are not in the TAG final, your post will be deleted.

    During the first round of tag tournaments there were some rules related issues. This caused quite a mess.

    Therefore I have decided to discuss the rules with the players before we finalize them. I have made a list of rules, please state which rules you want to see removed/added, we'll then have a discussion and vote about each proposal. Once the ruleset is decided among us, it will be final. There will be no changes whatsoever of the rules during the finals and everything that is not in the rules will be allowed without question.

    All players and both admins have 1 vote.

    Here is the rules list I made:


    § Every player has 16 hours to take his turn(so both teams have 32 h), but considering this is the final and some players may lack time, we will be lenient to some extend. Give your password to your ally in any case!!!


    § It is not allowed to abuse bugs to your or anyones advantage. These include but are not limited to:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    • The naval fort bug: No using ships to bypass a fort or a settlements Zone of Control.
    • Spam siege bug: Besieging a fort or a settlement with a force far superior in it, in order to either prevent that army from reinforcing or in order to cut down a settlements income is not allowed.
    • Fort watchtower bug: Constructing watchtowers in order to prevent forting is not allowed. You can construct watchtowers, but you will be asked to replay if it is obvious the reason why the watchtower has been built is to prevent forting
    • Heroic victory bug: No Heroic victories at all. If you get a heroic victory you must reload until you get a different result, and if you cannot get a different result then you will not be allowed to play the battle.
    • Ambush fort bug: No luring men in ambush position into ZoC of forts\settlement's as such robbing them of their movement points.
    • Siege reinforcement bug: when the army is adjacent to a fort or a settlements that has been put under siege it cannot reinforce armies adjacent to him which he should have been able to reinforce on normal occasions. Attacking an army which the siege reinforcements bug applies to is not allowed
    • Navy inside ports attacked bug: no using this bug to attack ships which are inside ports.
    • Yoyo armies\forts bug: no attacking an army which the bug has been used on mutliple times. You can see when this bug accures, as the enemy army enters the fort and then leaves it.
    • You are not allowed to encircle an army, just to deny its retreat.







    § Destroying buildings is not allowed in these 3 situations:

    1. If the settlement is under siege
    2. A far superior army is one turn away from the settlement. *exception: if it is turn one it is allowed
    3. You have not yet held that settlement for 3 turns *exception: does not apply on turn 1-3 on home regions

    § 4 units per fort. UNLIMITED FORTS!

    § You are not allowed to sally out to attack a besieging army just to deny the enemy of sacking the settlement.

    § You have to VM/PM the next player after you upload your save.

    § Posting pictures of battle odds, and results is mandatory. All pics must show the attacking and deffending forces. You are advised to delete your finance and minimap

    § The recruitments of spies\assasins and their use is prohibited

    § Armies defeated by a player (b) that comes after the original player (a)'s turn cannot move next turn, so if Tyrell defeats a Lannister army that army cannot move next turn. - Exception: Reinforcing armies in fortification, even if defeated, don't lose movement points. So player 'a' should be allowed to move the army that reinforced another while in a fort and was defeated by 'b'.
    Addendum to the same rule: no sallying out of a fort\castle which has forces which were defeated last turn. This is to make it fair for those who come last at the turn order, because they will not be able to do this

    § No sailing from a blockaded port without first defeating the blockade (land or sea units alike).

    § It is not allowed use a princess to steal a general, unless there is more then 35% of success. (pics must be posted)

    § Settlements gifted should disband all units, except for one to keep public order.

    § One turn peace for everybody, including no forting in enemy lands *exception: a faction who is before you in the turn order placed units in your territory. Example: Lannister can't attack Tully in turn 1. Tully can attack Lannister if he placed his troops in his territory.

    § The recruitment of siege equipment and their use is prohibited.

    § It is illegal to place armies or any kind of land forces (Archers, Infantry, Cavalry) onto ships which are inside ports. This is to prevent players from hiding their men inside the port, where they are untouchable

    § It is illegal to burn down ports in order to get around rule 11- if your port is blockaded and there are ships inside that port, if you burn down the port the ship is not allowed to move

    § It is forbidden to ransom defeated enemy soldiers, as the player cannot refuse.

    § AI lands cannot be taken.

    § It is forbidden to kill agents (diplomats and princesses).

    § The admin's decision is final.
    Last edited by Dux; March 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #2
    jemdkyl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    First of all, I will not even finish reading this. 16 hours to play the turn? What the hell!? I was gonna ask for 72 hours for the team in total before I opened the thread, now I see half that for the whole team.. 16 is way too little. Now I shall continue reading!

    Also I think perhaps the princess rule can be changed? Last game in TaG3 vozd kept his princess the entire time in our region so we could place no traps or any tricks at all.. that is sorta unfair advantage. I will not ask that princesses can be killed anytime, just that when they are in enemy territory. A princess should be safe if she is in her own territory. If she is in Harrenhal territory for example, and Harrenhal gets conquered, then she should leave the next turn, so that's 1 turn of protection for her.

    @Dux, 16 per player is still way too little.. I can't play any hotseat with that time let alone the damn GS finals of Westeros. Coursework keeps me busy and I am sure for many other people here. I am sure Badger is very busy also.
    Last edited by jemdkyl; March 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM.

  3. #3
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by jemdkyl View Post
    First of all, I will not even finish reading this. 16 hours to play the turn? What the hell!? I was gonna ask for 72 hours for the team in total before I opened the thread, now I see half that for the whole team.. 16 is way too little. Now I shall continue reading!
    I fixed that, it is 16h per player.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    I've no problem with these rules. The 16 hours per faction is a total of 32 hours per team and generally i expect we'll all be quite lenient.
    The 16 hours is the same amount of time you had in the qualifiers and your partner can always play your turn for you in the event that your to busy to play.

  5. #5
    jemdkyl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    It takes butt load of time for me and Jiub to get together due to conflicting schedules. What's the point of a tag team tournament if my partner will solo both turns?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    If it happens then it happens. I don't think any of the Tags really enforced to much on the 16 hours...
    A skip would be unacceptable so a sub from you teammate would need to be the back up plan if you cant make it for a turn. Or just ask for a bloody extension lol.

    So long as you keep us all in the loop about how long it'll be i don't see anyone getting annoyed, within reason.

  7. #7
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    Agree with jem. Let's go for the standard 24 hours (Per player) - 48 total
    Last edited by Badger-dude; March 10, 2014 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Edited re: Jems comment below

  8. #8
    jemdkyl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    You were not agreeing with me. I suggested 36 hours per.

  9. #9
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    My comments in this font


    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    This topic is only for the finalists and the admins of the final, refrain from posting if you are not in the TAG final, your post will be deleted.

    During the first round of tag tournaments there were some rules related issues. This caused quite a mess.

    Therefore I have decided to discuss the rules with the players before we finalize them. I have made a list of rules, please state which rules you want to see removed/added, we'll then have a discussion and vote about each proposal. Once the ruleset is decided among us, it will be final. There will be no changes whatsoever of the rules during the finals and everything that is not in the rules will be allowed without question.

    All players and both admins have 1 vote.

    Here is the rules list I made:


    § Every player has 16 hours to take his turn(so both teams have 32 h), but considering this is the final and some players may lack time, we will be lenient to some extend. Give your password to your ally in any case!!!

    I suggest 24 and 48 respectively. What does reducing to 16 hours add to the game other than rushing everything?



    § It is not allowed to abuse bugs to your or anyones advantage. These include but are not limited to:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    • The naval fort bug: No using ships to bypass a fort or a settlements Zone of Control.
    • Spam siege bug: Besieging a fort or a settlement with a force far superior in it, in order to either prevent that army from reinforcing or in order to cut down a settlements income is not allowed.
    • Fort watchtower bug: Constructing watchtowers in order to prevent forting is not allowed. You can construct watchtowers, but you will be asked to replay if it is obvious the reason why the watchtower has been built is to prevent forting
    • Heroic victory bug: No Heroic victories at all. If you get a heroic victory you must reload until you get a different result, and if you cannot get a different result then you will not be allowed to play the battle.
    • Ambush fort bug: No luring men in ambush position into ZoC of forts\settlement's as such robbing them of their movement points.
    • Siege reinforcement bug: when the army is adjacent to a fort or a settlements that has been put under siege it cannot reinforce armies adjacent to him which he should have been able to reinforce on normal occasions. Attacking an army which the siege reinforcements bug applies to is not allowed
    • Navy inside ports attacked bug: no using this bug to attack ships which are inside ports.
    • Yoyo armies\forts bug: no attacking an army which the bug has been used on mutliple times. You can see when this bug accures, as the enemy army enters the fort and then leaves it.
    • You are not allowed to encircle an army, just to deny its retreat.







    § Destroying buildings is not allowed in these 3 situations:

    1. If the settlement is under siege
    2. A far superior army is one turn away from the settlement. *exception: if it is turn one it is allowed - This rule is FAR too fiddly and always leads to arguments (Didn't Uriyaca quit partly because of this?) IMHO, it is much easier to say NO destroying buildings - much fairer to all and means that half the castles in Westeros won;t be scorched ruins
    3. You have not yet held that settlement for 3 turns *exception: does not apply on turn 1-3 on home regions

    § 4 units per fort. UNLIMITED FORTS! Agree with unlimited forts, but would prefer the unit restriction to be 4 FULL units or equivalent.

    § You are not allowed to sally out to attack a besieging army just to deny the enemy of sacking the settlement.

    § You have to VM/PM the next player after you upload your save.

    § Posting pictures of battle odds, and results is mandatory. All pics must show the attacking and deffending forces. You are advised to delete your finance and minimap

    § The recruitments of spies\assasins and their use is prohibited

    § Armies defeated by a player (b) that comes after the original player (a)'s turn cannot move next turn, so if Tyrell defeats a Lannister army that army cannot move next turn. - Exception: Reinforcing armies in fortification, even if defeated, don't lose movement points. So player 'a' should be allowed to move the army that reinforced another while in a fort and was defeated by 'b'.
    Addendum to the same rule: no sallying out of a fort\castle which has forces which were defeated last turn. This is to make it fair for those who come last at the turn order, because they will not be able to do this

    § No sailing from a blockaded port without first defeating the blockade (land or sea units alike).

    § It is not allowed use a princess to steal a general, unless there is more then 35% of success. (pics must be posted)

    § Settlements gifted should disband all units, except for one to keep public order.

    § One turn peace for everybody, including no forting in enemy lands *exception: a faction who is before you in the turn order placed units in your territory. Example: Lannister can't attack Tully in turn 1. Tully can attack Lannister if he placed his troops in his territory.

    § The recruitment of siege equipment and their use is prohibited.

    § It is illegal to place armies or any kind of land forces (Archers, Infantry, Cavalry) onto ships which are inside ports. This is to prevent players from hiding their men inside the port, where they are untouchable Should only apply if obvious bug abuse. No sensible person risks a stack being sunk at sea by a storm

    § It is illegal to burn down ports in order to get around rule 11- if your port is blockaded and there are ships inside that port, if you burn down the port the ship is not allowed to move

    § It is forbidden to ransom defeated enemy soldiers, as the player cannot refuse.

    § AI lands cannot be taken.

    § It is forbidden to kill agents (diplomats and princesses).

    § The admin's decision is final.

  10. #10
    Ice Eyes's Avatar King of Winter
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    This is what I think.

    - To make it fair I would agree to 24 hrs each player. 48hrs each player is way to slow, we will be here for a year or two!
    - no salling out of forts it is just wrong
    - One turn peace should be for everyone
    - With destroying buildings- Yes it should be allowed but only if it is the players/Factions starting settlements. With capturing buildings in enemy territory cant destroy unless held for 3 turns! or something in the lines of that

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    I'm happy with this for destroying buildings. Also 24hours per player sounds good, i think Tag1 was going at that speed anyway pretty much.

    Not allowed if...
    1. If the settlement is under siege
    2. A far superior army is one turn away from the settlement. *exception: if it is turn one it is allowed
    3. You have not yet held that settlement for 3 turns *exception: does not apply on turn 1-3 on home regions

  12. #12
    Jiub's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    My only concern right now is the time. Tho I agree with most opinions here, 24h per player should be enough.

    Ppl should make sure there aren't any other rules they want banned. Like lifting a siege by marrying a general and whatnot.
    Use these few days or however much there is until the hs starts to find out what you might want banned.


  13. #13
    jemdkyl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    So dudes.. 24 hour per player is agreed upon I guess. Though I am sure admin won't skip a guy because he's late.. still.

    I would like people to vote on the princess rule I suggested? Someone keeping a princess in enemy lands is OP because it can't be bribed. It is not the same case with diplomats. A princess in enemy lands should be allowed to be killed for the sake of balance.

    Also add a rule that it is a MUST to upload screens. I will not accept from anyone "screens will be up later."

    As far as me and Jiub are concerned, our time limit starts at the time the player uploads the save and screens both. We will not play unless we see screens. THAT IS, if you guys, by any chance, manage to get a victory..

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    Pictures are mandatory, just happens to be a rule a few people seem to forget about.

  15. #15
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    24h a turn is agreed upon. 48h per team total. Be sure to keep to this, we don't want this to last half a year.

    I think Jem's suggested rule change; it is allowed to kill princesses if she is in enemy territory, would make the rule pretty complex and prone to discussion. No killing of princesses or diplomats anywhere is more clear and better imo. What do you think?

    What do you guys think about Badger's proposed rule: no destroying buildings?

  16. #16
    jemdkyl's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    Lol what? You simply cannot move a princess to the enemy territory and end your turn while she's there, or she risks being killed.

    How is that complicated? If she is in her own territory, and the settlement of that territory is conquered, she has ONE turn of protection, so she can move out the next turn.

    It's quite easy to understand and follow lol.

    Destroying buildings should be allowed.. that rule is a must in Westeros since the economy management of this mod is more shallow than a teenager.

    Justification for my suggested rule change before people go "durr" is as follows.

    A princess cannot be bribed, a diplomat can. If you move a diplomat deep into the enemy territory, the enemy can just bribe it. Such is not the case with a princess. A princess can be kept alive the entire game to be used as a spy wherever and whenever. That is just stupid really and makes the game a whole lot less fun since you are aware that you can set absolutely no surprises or traps for your enemy if he has a princess in your lands. See TaG3 where vozd kept his princess alive the entire game in Harrenhal region which was ours. It's quite overpowered to have such an agent, unbribable, unkillable, something that allows you to see the entire enemy territory. It's basically a freaking wall hack. Therefore keeping a princess in your own borders may help decrease the amount of land someone can spy using that agent.

    Also makes no sense realistically.

    "Oh hey, I'm the daughter of the guy who has sworn to chop your head off. May I just rest here.. uh, next to your house, for like, 10 years?"

    "Oh sure, no problem."
    Last edited by jemdkyl; March 12, 2014 at 10:06 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    I'd like to be able to destroy buildings. It can be quite useful at times.
    As to the Princess rule i think it's acceptable. Don't leave your Princess in enemies lands if you don't want to risk her life.

  18. #18
    Jiub's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    I also think destroying buildings is a very important aspect of the westeros game, just like forting. The economy in this game is non existent, so only destroying and sacking can provide that edge when you need it.


  19. #19
    Badger-dude's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    If y'all like playing in dirty sandpits and destroying is allowed I would do away with the...

    'bu...bu... but DUX SIR! I haz an armie of da best nikghts 1 turn away. Dux!? DUXXXXX?? '
    ... rule. I mean, that means Lannister can sit an army in the central Riverlands and Tully cannot destroy anything as every settlement is basically a turn away.

    I am generally against agent killing.

  20. #20
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: Tag Tournament Final Rules discussion ONLY FOR THE FINALISTS

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger-dude View Post
    If y'all like playing in dirty sandpits and destroying is allowed I would do away with the...

    'bu...bu... but DUX SIR! I haz an armie of da best nikghts 1 turn away. Dux!? DUXXXXX?? '
    ... rule. I mean, that means Lannister can sit an army in the central Riverlands and Tully cannot destroy anything as every settlement is basically a turn away.

    I am generally against agent killing.
    Oh the horror!

    I'm sure you guys will not be like that, right????????????????


    Ok, it seems we have reached an agreement on the buildings (5 in favor 1 against), the rule stays as it is.


    As for the princess, it is currently 2 for and 2 against. Jiub, Ice, Eoh and king joff have not voted yet.
    Last edited by Dux; March 12, 2014 at 05:02 PM.

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