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Thread: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

  1. #1
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    OK, so from the OOC thread I can see that we've got a majority of players who want to end the 1776 'prologue' game and move on to the 'meat and potatoes' of the WEF series - a second iteration set a little further down the line where the political aspects will take predominance over the military stuff. With that in mind, I have a few suggestions for where we should start:

    1. 1792: The Constitutional Convention & Northwest Ordinance are done and dealt with, thank the Almighty Lord For simplicity's sake I suggest using the OTL Constitution, maybe with like one or two changes (f'rex, a politician's ability to run a business while holding office regardless of the potential/certain conflict of interest not only being allowed but actually being constitutionally protected to get the New England folks to swallow the 3/5ths Compromise more readily) so it isn't a total carbon copy but that's it. Whoever becomes our 1st President will have either just begun their second term for stability's sake, or is running for a second term (then again, I don't know who's going to want to run against you IC, so yeah). Shays' Rebellion, or whatever our expy of it will be called, is done and dusted, but the Whiskey Rebellion will be ongoing as of the game start, so there's that to deal with right off the bat along with the fallout from a crushing defeat in the Northwest (which I think would become more inevitable, not less, since the DLW Resolution called for the movement of a ton of maroons westward). In regards to foreign affairs, the French Revolution is well underway, Louis XVI is more or less doomed and the old order of Europe is bearing down on the soon-to-be republic. Also, there aren't any actual parties yet, but there is a de-facto division between centralists (IRL the 'Pro-Administration' folks like Adams & Hamilton) and anti-centralists ('Anti-Administration' guys like Jefferson or Madison); I think that the centralists are going to have to control the government since they'd be the reason why the US ditched the Articles of Confederation in favor of the Constitution, but the anti-centralists should still be around as a sizable presence.

    This option would allow you guys to keep your 1776 characters, no sweat. Oh, and before I forget, we do need somebody to fill in these roles for WEF America:

    The George Washington: Our first POTUS, duh. I don't think we really had a perfect Washington expy in 1776 (Wallace is dead & in any case he would have been unacceptable to 1/3 to 1/2 of the nation, McIntyre does not strike me as somebody who would seek political office and was already on the backfoot against Howe at Williamsburg anyway, Stanford was one of if not THE oldest characters & Dan said he was retiring after serving his purpose, and Lamberth literally became President like one day before the game ended) so this position is up for grabs.
    The John Adams: The nation's first Vice-President and the above's #2 man, should be a representative of the moderate centralists/future Federalists.
    The Alexander Hamilton: The nation's Secretary of the Treasury, in charge of restoring national finances, whose tough but likely necessary measures are bound to face resistance from the likes of Shays & the Whiskey rebels. A shoe-in for our extreme centralist/Federalist rep.
    The Thomas Jefferson: Chief of the opposition to the centralists, likely more moderate in their outlook than...
    The Patrick Henry: Our more extreme anti-centralist/DR, albeit less powerful than the TJ expy at least at game start (Constitution's just been adopted remember).

    2. 1796: The nation's 1st President has stepped down, so this year's election is a free for all between the properly-crystallized Federalist and Democratic-Republican parties. The FRW are really on, although France has (probably) moved past the worst excesses of its revolution, unless you guys want them to keep the unstable & guillotine-crazy Convention instead of adopting the corrupt but somewhat stabler Directory. The Indians aren't too much of a problem unless for whatever reason you don't want to inflict a Fallen Timbers on them prior to this start.

    I believe it should still be possible to keep your 1776 characters with this start.

    3. 1815: No more silly wigs! The Napoleonic Wars are over, Europe is entering an era of uneasy peace, and your War of 1812 expy (should you decide to even fight one) should also be over. Either the Federalists or the DRs should be gaining the upper hand at home, while the other is on its last legs. We're also one year away from the game's first election.

    Your 1776 characters should be retired or dead by this point I'm afraid, but that means you can turn over a new leaf with their kids.

    So, feel free to start discussing & casting votes folks. Also, as Dan said there are some structural issues with IH that need to be addressed, of course if he's up for it I have no issues whatsoever with him making a new thread for it instead of using this one to air them out (it's his idea in the first place after all, and it might reduce clutter in here).
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; March 08, 2014 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #2
    jacb547's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Well my vote goes for 1792 so we can keep our characters and run the first game as it should without all the problems, also I'd volunteer my Congressman for an Adams type of guy since he was kind of a moderate centralist. Also a couple issues I think we should address, how did the Vermont plesbicite go are they our 14th state? And weather the Maroons are successfully settled in the West.
    "We all know whatmy brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt."

  3. #3
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    1. On Vermont, I'd say the unionist faction would win their referendum pretty handily. Them being a republic was always meant to be a temporary arrangement to get them out from under NY's thumb, they really wanted to join the Union, and there hasn't been nearly enough time for them to develop a stridently anti-US, pro-independence 'Vermont nationalism'.

    2. On the matter of the Maroons, let me just quote what I said to Perry over a VM:
    For the timewarp, I was thinking of having a bunch of them fight the Indians for the US + their own right to settlements post-war, since the natives of the NW Territories gave the Americans a helluva time until Fallen Timbers in 1794 and Tippecanoe in 1811 permanently broke their backs, while another chunk would survive scattered across New England - basically, the DLW Proposal becoming permanent because all of the other options (give them back to Britain, let Southerners enslave them, send them to Africa) are either unacceptable to a majority of the colonies or simply not feasible (the US will have to deal with debt, the inevitable growing pains of being a nation like Shays' Rebellion, and the FRW/NW very soon after independence). This would result in a rapid radicalization of racial politics - Northerners, who will have fought & lived with them, will become a lot more accommodating of blacks, to the point where true racial egalitarians won't be an easily-dismissed minority and even the racist free-soilers will at least want actual abolition as of say 1850; conversely, the idea of 'slavery is actually a positive good' will catch on much faster in the South, and by 1850 may well have grown to the point where George Fitzhugh-style arguments of 'it's even good for (the wrong kind of) white people!' will catch on instead of being an embarrassment to Dixie. For their part I don't see the maroons immediately getting the franchise even in NE, but a limited franchise for the descendants of the actual maroon soldiers is possible in the long run.
    I don't think a 1792 or 1796 start where our original-gen cast is still around would mean the racial situation changes too much from OTL, where slavery is mostly viewed as a necessary evil down South & in the Middle Colonies while the maroons would be looked upon with a mix of ambivalence, fear (esp. in the South) and probably respect (once they're allowed to get off their bums and actually fight, they'll probably be your war-winner against Howe alongside the French). However, from 1815 onward, as the next generation rises things can start flying off the rails completely.

    Also, I'll use this post to keep a tally of who's running for which position. You guys can vote straightaway in this thread, ofc.

    GW: H. Poole (Kip - 5 votes) CLOSED
    JA: R. Braxford (Jacb - 4 votes), E. Lamberth (Watercress - 5 votes), J. Eggers (Aggy - 1 vote) CLOSED
    AH: E. Massie (Amaz - 6 votes) CLOSED
    TJ: J. Richardson (Chesser - 1 vote), J. Eggers (Aggy - 5 votes) CLOSED
    PH: H. Wallace (Perry - 4 votes), C. Eggers (Aggy - 3 votes) CLOSED

    Tally for the starting year:

    1792: 4 (Jacb, Chesser, Rose, Watercress)
    1796: 2 (Aggy, Gunny)
    1815: 3 (Rose, Perry, Aggy)
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; March 12, 2014 at 09:05 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I'm leaning towards 1792, but not 100% sure right now. The other one I'm considering is 1815. Also, as Barry and Kip know, I was planning on introducing a Hessian mercenary character to lead the forces Rondelle hired and perhaps attempt to train the militia, like von Steuben did. But as that never happened, would anyone be opposed to him being made the von Steuben of the game?

  5. #5
    chesser2538's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    My vote is for 1792. Its far enough down the timeline for the hostility surrounding the revolution would have settled down, but it still gives our characters a descent length of in game years to still participate before the are switched out. Otherwise most of of our characters would already be in their late 50's starting off.

    GW:
    JA: R. Braxford (Jacb - 1 vote, chesser - 1 vote)
    AH:
    TJ: J. Richardson (chesser - 1 vote)
    PH:

    If we decide on 1792 do you guys want to keep these OTL events
    1790 - Rhode Island ratifies the Constitution and becomes 13th state
    1791 - Bill of Rights ratified
    1791 - First Bank of the United States chartered
    1791 - Vermont, formerly the independent Vermont Republic, becomes the 14th state
    1792 - Kentucky, formerly Kentucky County, Virginia, becomes the 15th state
    1792 - U.S. presidential election starts
    Last edited by chesser2538; March 08, 2014 at 09:07 PM.

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    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I vote no changes to the constitution except for any that might be necessitated by the presence of the Maroon settlers out west. We don't do constitutions very well.

    Also, when do we hold the conference?
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  7. #7
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chesser2538 View Post
    My vote is for 1792. Its far enough down the timeline for the hostility surrounding the revolution would have settled down, but it still gives our characters a descent length of in game years to still participate before the are switched out. Otherwise most of of our characters would already be in their late 50's starting off.

    GW:
    JA: R. Braxford (Jacb - 1 vote, chesser - 1 vote)
    AH:
    TJ: J. Richardson (chesser - 1 vote)
    PH:

    If we decide on 1792 do you guys want to keep these OTL events
    1790 - Rhode Island ratifies the Constitution and becomes 13th state
    1791 - Bill of Rights ratified
    1791 - First Bank of the United States chartered
    1791 - Vermont, formerly the independent Vermont Republic, becomes the 14th state
    1792 - Kentucky, formerly Kentucky County, Virginia, becomes the 15th state
    1792 - U.S. presidential election starts
    I think it might be possible to bump Vermont's integration back a few years, to say 1787 or '88, if NY settles its claims a little earlier).

    On a different note, the influx of maroons & their inevitable contributions to the revolution might result in more states abolishing slavery ahead of time. The New England states are no-brainers of course, with Massachusetts probably directly abolishing slavery in its state constitution instead of going for a loophole to kill it, and Pennsylvania going for a unilateral instead of gradual emancipation in 1780. NY hasn't gotten around to it yet, but they too might well swing for immediate over gradual emancipation in 1799 (New York players, feel free to become the founder of the NY Manumission Society since Hamilton no longer exists).

    @Dan Right now, if you so choose. You're welcome to use this thread to air out your grievances, but as I said I wouldn't mind using a separate thread to do it instead, it'll also prolly reduce the clutter in here.

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    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Okay, I'm on my tablet right now because my computer is all packed up for the trip back to campus tomorrow but I'll get on that as soon as I'm back in my dorm room.
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    Pericles of Athens's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I suppose Henry Wallace could be this world's equivalent to Patrick Henry. I thought about Thomas Jefferson for a second, but realized Wallace is perhaps a bit too radical when it comes to any and all of his beliefs for that.

    As to which game I'd prefer, I guess I'll cast my vote for 1815. My main concern about the 1792 and 1796 starts is who will be our GW stand in. 1776 was noticeably lacking in politically neutral, genuinely lovable, and successful characters. In fact I don't recall a one that fits the bill.
    Last edited by Pericles of Athens; March 09, 2014 at 06:54 AM.


  10. #10
    Kip's Avatar Idea missing.
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I think I can make a strong case for Poole as GW. He's got a spotless service record, including embarrassing propaganda victories against the Royal Navy all over the Atlantic. He actually is politically neutral, including on the issue of slavery, designed as such from day 1 (Barry can attest to this). He just has been too busy winning to be active in politics. He's conveniently had ties severed to Armsby (I retired the character to go west with the Maroons, and if I hadn't, Poole would've asked for his resignation in anticipation of a presidential run). George and South Carolina won't necessarily have a love affair with him, but I think his appeal carries the Middle along with the North.

    We also have no idea about the politics of our other major commanders. I welcome challenges from McIntyre and Amsel!

  11. #11
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I'll be sticking with Lamberth, and go for 1792. I'm not exactly sure what role he could really play. I intended him as a Federalist, but he's proven far too moderate to take Hamilton, unless Lamberth's Presidency rather radicalised him. Therefore I would probably go for Adams, or at a stretch Jefferson, but I doubt I could play a Democratic-Republican very well. The closest historical analogue to Lamberth would probably be John Jay, or possibly Stephen Marshall.
    Last edited by Watercress; March 09, 2014 at 09:25 AM.

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    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Honestly, I think either Poole or Lamberth could become GW. The former for all the reasons Kip just said, and Lamberth since his moderate Federalism (remember, Washington himself was pretty much a moderate Federalist in all but name as well) and Southern roots should make him palatable to everyone, and on top of that he does have some successes under his belt in the DLW Resolution & the Vermont Memorandum.

  13. #13
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I'll keep tally of the votes for our starting year in the same post I'm using to keep track of votes for the five Mega-FFs btw. Anyway, as for a rough timeline I've sketched out from now to 1783, to which I absolutely welcome any additions involving your own characters:

    Timeline, 1775-1783
    1775: The American Revolution begins with the meeting of the Second Continental Congress and the defeat of a British column at Lexington & Concord. The Patriots show the world that they will not go quietly into the night at Bunker Hill, and that they may occasionally jump in over their heads after their expedition to conquer Canada ends in disaster. Congress sends the Olive Branch Petition in a last-ditch effort to end the war before it truly begins, but the British government turns it down.

    1776: Congress issues the Declaration of Independence, and Charles Stanford of South Carolina is elected President by his peers. Under Commodore Hamitt Poole, the Continental Navy proves its worth at Nassau and Nantucket Shoals, even capturing British Admiral Peter Parker and his flagship the HMS Bristol at the latter. His subordinates do the same, with Captain Thomas Weaver occupying Bermuda and later striking out for Antigua while Captain Cato Armsby took control of Jamaica after defeating its colonial garrison & killing its governor, then fled back home with the island's slave population in tow - no doubt, with tremendous effects down the road.

    The same cannot be said of the Continental Army, which faces defeat after defeat on land - General Samuel Haig withdrew from New York in the face of General William Howe's larger army, only to be decisively defeated at Trenton anyway; General James Amsel blew up his own trap at Collomsville, making it impossible for him to delay Howe's march to Philadelphia for more than thirty minutes; and General Micum McIntyre's Fabian strategy resulted in Howe occupying the capital and heart of Revolutionary America without having to fire a shot, while Congress retreated to Richmond. One of the few bright spots to the Army's record this year was General Wallace's successful repelling of a British attack on Charleston, in which his men even fatally wounded the last colonial Governor of South Carolina; for this, Wallace was appointed Commander-in-Chief by Congress.

    Congress's last actions this year are to issue new recruitment orders and craft a new, hardline policy demanding the death of all Tories found to be taking up arms against America.

    1777: 'Wily Willy' Howe kicks off this year by attacking Charleston, defeating the army of Commander-in-Chief Wallace and killing his opposite number in single combat, single-handedly crippling the Southern Department and assuming control of the three Southern states of Georgia & the Carolinas. That said, elsewhere the Revolution began to take a turn for the better: New York and Philadelphia are retaken by Generals McIntyre and Amsel, albeit from weakened garrisons left behind by Howe. However, McIntyre's refusal to take any prisoners, resulting in the slaughter of 5,000 British troops (at least some of whom must have tried to surrender in the face of his superior host), combined with the brutality exhibited by Lt. Col. Bohannon against captured Southern Tories, makes the war turn ugly fast - Howe executes an equal number of prominent Patriots in retaliation for Bohannon's (and by extension the Continental Congress's) atrocities, including the state's first post-colonial governor. In addition, General Charles Eggers (having just recently been appointed to head the Southern Department by Congress after Wallace's death over one Horatio Peterson) barged into their meeting hall to demand they 'take action' and ends up having his own soldiers sweep in to prevent their ceremonial guard from escorting him out; he is demoted almost immediately by a Congress that surely immediately regretted their decision to make him department general in the first place, and escapes the noose by one vote.

    Cato Armsby washes up on the shores of Massachusetts with 200,000 Jamaican maroons (a third of them having died in the voyage), and Congress resolved to 'temporarily' resettle them between the New England states and the Western Frontier as per the Dyer-Lamberth-Weaver Resolution. France joins the war.

    1778: Congress issues the Lamberth Memorandum to the Vermont Republic, allowing for their gradual integration into the Union under a number of conditions that included their acceptance of 20,000 maroons and a popular referendum, and Vermont accepts. Speaking of which, Edward Lamberth of Virginia is also elected President, succeeding Charles Stanford. A major battle is fought at Williamsburg between General McIntyre, now Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army, and William Howe; the British held the field after McIntyre's morning surprise attack failed, but both sides took quite the beating. Howe executes his prisoners in retaliation for McIntyre's 'no prisoners' policy at Philadelphia and occupies Richmond, only to find that Congress had raced back to Philadelphia ahead of him.

    The first French troops arrive in Boston.

    1779: The Iroquois Confederacy in upper New York rises up in favor of the British, as the USA had completely failed to even once vote to send an ambassador to them; General Amsel is thus preoccupied with suppressing them for the rest of the war, scuppering plans for an invasion of Canada. General John Burgoyne opens a third front by invading from Canada through the Ohio Country and the Appalachians, supported by a contingent of Shawnee warriors under Blue Jacket and Patrick Ferguson's elite rifle corps, and makes a beeline for Philadelphia to capture Congress while the Northern Department was distracted with the Indians & the Southern Department/McIntyre with Howe. Down south, Howe fights defensively and maintains his reputation as an undefeatable 'Field Tyrant' with victories at Bull Run (twice, in the summer & fall), Cedar Mountain and the Rappahannock, but fails to make any meaningful advances north either.

    The German mercenary officer Isidore von Wolfe is hired by the Continental Congress to serve as their new Inspector-General, with his one duty being to whip their troops into shape, on the recommendation of the French court. However, Von Wolfe would not actually arrive in the United States until later next year.

    1780: The French & Continental fleets work together with the Continental Army to land a force under General John Braxford in Virginia and attack Howe from the rear, but a crippling shortage of skilled marines (most of whom were captured in Charleston long ago), lack of coordination with local Patriot spies (who may have been British double-agents) and poor planning resulted in Howe hurling the Americans back into the sea with great loss at Yorktown; although Braxford's new maroon troops prove their bravery and willingness to die for the Revolution, even they are unable to win this battle thanks to the cards dealt to the American side here. Fortunately (kind of), the failed Yorktown Expedition distracted Howe from supporting General Henry Clinton's offensive into Maryland, which is itself halted at Chantilly by General McIntyre. The demoted General Eggers is defeated in a conventional battle with General Burgoyne at North Braddock, but manages to stop his advance towards a vulnerable Philadelphia - and thereby buys General McIntyre time to send troops up north - through a guerrilla campaign.

    The Massachusetts State Constitution is ratified. Notably, besides recognizing the innate right of its citizens to life, property and happiness as well as enforcing religious tolerance throughout the colony & according considerable powers to its Governor, the constitution also unilaterally and 'eternally' abolished slavery. The other New England states would follow suit over the next few years, issuing progressive constitutions that disestablished their own state churches & in no uncertain terms immediately ended slavery within their borders. Under the influence of its large Quaker population and out of respect for the maroons' doomed heroism at Yorktown, Pennsylvania also immediately abolished slavery this year instead of adopting a gradual emancipation plan.

    Isidore von Wolfe arrives in the United States sometime after the defeat at Yorktown, and immediately goes to work. Under his harsh but undeniably skilled hand, the Continental Army's militia formations approach something resembling respectability, and the Maroons in particular benefit from the addition of German discipline to their own bravery and the musketry training they had already received in Boston.

    1781: General McIntyre splits his army in twain - one half to contain Howe, and the other to defeat Burgoyne in conjunction with Generals Braxford (now supported properly by his maroon soldiers and Inspector-general von Wolfe) and Eggers. Howe defeats the Americans yet again at Antietam, but is sufficiently delayed to ensure Burgoyne would be surrounded and forced to surrender to the Three Generals in Uniontown, Pennsylvania. At the same time, Richard Howe's fleet is decisively defeated by the French & Commodore Poole while shadowing his younger brother's advance at the Chesapeake. With these two major back-to-back defeats and countless commitments around the world to attend to, Britain is finally forced to sue for peace.

    1782: As General Howe withdraws, still undefeated for all the good that did him in the long run, the Southern states are free to ratify their own constitutions. Notably, with the exception of the more moderate Virginia these constitutions are rather authoritarian in outlook and awarded considerable power to state Governors, in addition to fiercely protecting slavery, no doubt thanks to the influence of the planter lobby. Also, formal negotiations to end the war since the 1781 ceasefire begin.

    1783: The Treaty of Paris ends the American Revolutionary War. Besides recognizing the independence of the Thirteen Colonies, Britain also had to recognize its loss of the Jamaican slaves, though the US had to provide free passage to Canada for all Loyalists remaining on American soil who did not wish to remain part of the new country & to recognize the property rights of those who do. The radically decentralizing Articles of Confederation, establishing the USA as a confederacy of sovereign states headed by the (severely limited) Continental Congress, are ratified as the governing document of the new country.

    The 'Order of the Cincinnati' is organized as a hereditary society (in which membership is transmitted by primogeniture, even through female lines if the male line failed) to 'bind in perpetual friendship' the officers of the Continental Army/Navy as well as their French allies & the non-combatant signers of the Declaration of Independence...and it is almost immediately lambasted as an attempt to restore a titled nobility by more radically anti-centralist and anti-aristocratic notables, but even they fail to prevent its inception.

    The following are the Governors of the various American states as of December 31st 1783, all former members of the Continental Congress to a man:

    Massachusetts: Charles Dyer
    Connecticut: Lewis Clark
    New Hampshire: Thomas Grierson
    Rhode Island: Paul Rogers
    New York: David Lloyd
    Pennsylvania: Benjamin Stark
    New Jersey: Leonidas Dowd
    Delaware: James Orwell
    Maryland: Winston Beaton
    Virginia: Edward Drummond
    North Carolina: Walter Simons
    South Carolina: Henry Short
    Georgia: Roger Anderson
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; March 11, 2014 at 09:10 PM. Reason: edited out a lot of mistakes, also added lots of spacing

  14. #14
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    To round out the cast, I will put Massie forward for Hamilton. He largely managed the Congressional budget for the war and comes from a region that would've seen the genesis of Federalist principles. He is still rather young by 1792 and shares commonalities in origin with Hamilton, like his having grown up in the Caribbean

  15. #15
    jacb547's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Timeline looks great to me. Also will we be using a new map for the next installation? The current one does not exactly fit a western expanding America so I think we could use Vicky 2 map.
    "We all know whatmy brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt."

  16. #16
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Goldwater View Post
    Honestly, I think either Poole or Lamberth could become GW. The former for all the reasons Kip just said, and Lamberth since his moderate Federalism (remember, Washington himself was pretty much a moderate Federalist in all but name as well) and Southern roots should make him palatable to everyone, and on top of that he does have some successes under his belt in the DLW Resolution & the Vermont Memorandum.
    Yeah I can see where you are coming from - certainly I see Lamberth as the 'venerable elder statesman' of Congress. Perhaps best put him on the tally for GW, then, and let the community decide, while leaving Adams to jacb.

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  17. #17
    Kip's Avatar Idea missing.
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Anybody remember the ridiculous campaign posters form WEF 1.0?

    ...because I do


  18. #18
    Pericles of Athens's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    I'll get some voting out of the way I suppose.
    Massie for Alexander Hamilton
    Lamberth for George Washington
    Braxford for John Adams
    Last edited by Pericles of Athens; March 09, 2014 at 01:14 PM.


  19. #19
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kip View Post
    Anybody remember the ridiculous campaign posters form WEF 1.0?

    ...because I do
    Oh yeah? Well two can play at that game!


    "Only Connect!...Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer."

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    Default Re: WEF 3.0 Future Iteration Planning Thread






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