Ukraine and Crimea development thread

[Dromikaites]

With the politicians we have it would be hard for any Western country to respect us. Hell, even we don't respect them. We just vote them out of office every 4 years, only to replace them with other ones cut from the same cloth.

Luckily after some 10 years of reforming the justice and police under constant EU pressure now a large number of them are behind bars or under investigation. Which means the political parties might soon run out of thieves and more savory figures would get into the parliament and government. Soon as in another 10 years.

But without the EU, such reforms would have never happened. So of course I like my country is in a structure which does the cleaning.

You know why America has not let Romania into the visa waiver program yet? The simple truth is that America doesn't feel that it owes Romania anything, they know that Romania will smile and do whatever they ask simply because they are not Russia. It's a carrot that America will probably dangle over Romania's head in the future.

USA has the right to decide who she wants in. Those Romanians who want the elimination of the visas are those who would want to try their luck in America. Which would be good for them as individuals, but bad for Romania. At least those who look for work in the wealthier parts of the EU end up funding the development of Romania via the EU funding scheme. There's no similar funding scheme with America so why would I want to export smart and hardworking people to America?

From what I understand, America is very happy with Basescu as president and Victoria Nuland gives him weekly calls grilling him for not doing more to get rid of his political opponents who want to take Romania down a different path.

Who those opponents might be? I mean, who are those politicians who would like to take Romania on a different path than NATO and the EU and who are important in the Romanian politics.

Hey, I can't even name a politician who wants to get Romania out of the EU or NATO. Maybe you could help me with that.

The American naval base in Constanța is probably the best thing that we can get on the Black Sea without getting Crimea.

And judging from our previous experience with the American airbase near Constanta and anti-missile base in Deveselu, an American naval base would do more than just increase Romania's security on American taxpayers' dime. It would also boost the economy of Constanta.

When the Americans closed most of their bases in Germany back in the early '90s there were a lot of sad Germans who worried about their businesses and their jobs.

So by all means, "Yankees don't go home! Come to Romania instead"

[Alejandro Sanchez]

Mobilization into Ukrainian army. Mariupol.

[AgentGB]

Well some of you seem pro soviet union, which is quite worrying, seems you would welcome back the return of the soviet union, and do not care to respect a countries independence & sovereignty.

Interesting article from EuroMaiden, that highlights a speech by lev shlozberg.
http://euromaidanpr.wordpress.com/20...who-stay-sane/

With the right people working for a stronger Ukrainian government, they will see better days, but butthurt communist, or anti Putin apologist need to starting accepting this. When they eventually join the EU there people will enjoy the prospects of free movement of workers, among other benefits once a sure footed government is in place and closely supported by the EU. While hopefully we will stop issuing visa to Russians, since they obviously have no need to be apart of the EU or work within, which suits me fine until the Russian people do the right thing and overthrow Putin if they wish to benefit from what the EU has to offer. Otherwise you better start learning to speak Indian, Chinese, Brazilian and so on, because prospect for work within the EU and doing business are looking bleak.

Also Kyiv have offered Russia a plan to change into a confederation in response to the Kremlin stating that Ukraine should become a federation. Seems reasonable to me.
http://zn.ua/POLITICS/kiev-predlagae...f-142309_.html


Also the Kremlin now have a dedciated outlet, for going around attempting to personally challenge journalist outlets.

https://www.facebook.com/dmitry.tymc...77254112403249

http://russianmission.eu/en/news/cri...dicals-ukraine

Sources of Information the resistance "in Brussels, the Permanent Mission of Russia to the EU recently has strengthened ideological" processing "of European MEDIA.

In particular, the wording of the leading European MEDIA constantly receiving messages from the Russian Mission, in which a "Kremlin" interpretation of events in Ukraine. Simply put-Russian diplomats strenuously spread outright lies and slander on the spate of "banderovŝiny", xenophobia and anti-Semitism in Ukraine.

Slanderous messages from RUSSIAN mission signed "Kirill Ivanov, press attaché, Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation to the European Union".

Below is an example of a message that is sent regularly to the European journalists. The second link is to a page in Russian.

Dear colleagues, This is to inform you that a chronological record of recent lawless actions committed by radicals in Ukraine is available on the website of the Permanent Mission of Russia to the EU.

In English: http://russianmission.eu/en/news/cri...dicals-ukraine
In Russian: http://russianmission.eu/ru/novosti/...kov-na-ukraine
Yours faithfully, Kirill Ivanov Press attaché Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation to the European Union Tel: +32 (0) 2502 17 91 Mobile: +32 (0) 497555385 E-mail: pressrussiaeu@coditel.net E-mail: russiaeupress@gmail.com Internet: www.russianmission.eu
Criminal and lawless acts committed by radicals in Ukraine | Russian Mission russianmission.eu

Cameron is also working for a stronger EU, and if more then anything, has galvanised the EU alot more. We will endure, and we will prevail. Either way we can't lose, less Russians coming or migrating to Europe is for the best. No more supposed greener side of the grass, they can stay on there side of the fence, until there willing to be sensible.

We don't need the rebirth of the soviet union, and supposed unficiations for more land grabs, and i know the Ukrainians probably share little enthusiasm for rejoining Russia that seems to be slowly slipping into old ways.

Soviet Union

Approximately 61,911,000 people, 54,769,000 of them citizens, were murdered by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1917 to 1987. Rummel writes:

Part of this mass killing was genocide, as in the wholesale murder of hundreds of thousands of Don Cossacks in 1919, the intentional starving of about 5,000,000 Ukrainian peasants to death in 1932-33,² or the deportation to mass death of 50,000 to 60,000 Estonians in 1949.³ Part was mass murder, as of the wholesale extermination of perhaps 6,500,000 "kulaks" (in effect, the better off peasants and those resisting collectivization) from 1930 to 1937,the execution of perhaps a million Party members in the Great Terror of 1937-38, and the massacre of all Trotskyites in the forced labor camps.

[knight of meh]

it'slike watching a very slowed down trainwreck ...

[AgentGB]

it'slike watching a very slowed down trainwreck ...

You mean the thread or events? or both?

[Alejandro Sanchez]

Evacuation of "Praviy Sector" from the "Dnepr" hotel. What is in these long cases? Maybe it's sniper rifles there inside?

[AgentGB]

Mobilization into Ukrainian army. Mariupol.

What do you expect? it's nothing new in times of potential war, similar events have happened in america, britain and so on, or face jail time, no one wants to go to war, but then no one wants to be invaded either. Poland have called back polish people in britain to do so many months national services, should russia decide to go for it, What can you do? If it happens, im sure there will be similar events in britain also, and probably russia, although you do have national service.

Evacuation of "Praviy Sector" from the "Dnepr" hotel. What is in these long cases? Maybe it's sniper rifles there inside?

Could be planted, to pass the blame, could be musical instruments, were not sure yet, but obviously far right sector does not represent the majority of the Ukrainian people, and if they are fount to be the culprits, then they will face justice.

meanwhile in some sane parts of russia.

[Dromikaites]

Evacuation of "Praviy Sector" from the "Dnepr" hotel. What is in these long cases? Maybe it's sniper rifles there inside?

Can't be sniper rifles for a very simple reason: the Ukrainian Parliament voted a law to disarm all the paramilitary forces. We can clearly see the Ukrainian police surrounding the hotel and the bus. Therefore any weapons in possession of the Right Sector members would have been seized before they would have been allowed to board the bus.

Also thanks for showing everybody that indeed the Ukrainian government is in control and that the Right Sector left one of their bastions with their tails between their legs. There goes the Russian propaganda that the Right Sector runs Ukraine.

Speaking about your cute NATO cartoon in your signature, you do know that NATO decided yesterday to arm Ukraine with Western equipment, don't you? The "liberation" of Donetsk might need to be postponed indefinitely.

[Alejandro Sanchez]

meanwhile in some sane parts of russia.

Well, we live in free country, and people can do anything that does not violate the law

Speaking about your cute NATO cartoon in your signature...

Off-topic removed

[conon394]

You know why America has not let Romania into the visa waiver program yet? The simple truth is that America doesn't feel that it owes Romania anything,

Actually I belive it had to do with overstay rates under the existing system as I understand it. A reform to address that was passed in the Senate but perhaps foolishly put in the larger immigration reform bill and so is dead in the House. Its not that the US does not care - Romania and Poland and the other European nations excluded have huge amount of High level advocates - the Administration, Former Ambassadors, Top Senators (R and D), etc. The problem is brown people from Mexico scare the Republicans in the house, plus they are too busy I sure have another defund Obama care vote

[Garbarsardar]

Gentlemen, if you want to debate the topic, by all means, please do. The rest, can be dealt with by PMs. When I will get tired of playing housekeeping here, I will infract all and sundry.
Thank you for your understanding and unconditional cooperation,
Garb.

[Heathen Hammer]

The IMF “Rescue Package”: Western Looting of Ukraine Has Begun.

Politically Ukraine is an untenable aggregation of Ukrainian and Russian territory, because traditional Russian territories were stuck into the borders of the Ukraine Soviet Republic by Lenin and Khrushchev. The Crimea, stuck into Ukraine by Khrushchev, has already departed and rejoined Russia. Unless some autonomy is granted to them, Russian areas in eastern and southern Ukraine might also depart and return to Russia. If the animosity displayed toward the Russian speaking population by the stooge government in Kiev continues, more defections to Russia are likely.
The Washington-imposed coup faces other possible difficulties from what seems to be a growing conflict between the well-organized Right Sector and the Washington-imposed stooges. If armed conflict between these two groups were to occur, Washington might conclude that it needs to send help to its stooges. The appearance of US/NATO troops in Ukraine would create pressure on Putin to occupy the remaining Russian speaking parts of Ukraine.

[knight of meh]

You mean the thread or events? or both?

events .. but the thread is getting there

The IMF “Rescue Package”: Western Looting of Ukraine Has Begun.

i have read some of that guys stuff isn't he the guy that worked for Regan and basically hits on any institution that is a financial organisations for a living ?

also debate in good faith post the one that actually explains what they think is happening and not the here say in that link that then points to someone else's work

[Dromikaites]

The IMF “Rescue Package”: Western Looting of Ukraine Has Begun.

Quoting globalresearch.ca or quoting RT is practically the same thing.

Not to mention that guy is a retard: once the US/NATO troops are in Ukraine, how does he imagine Putin would be able to annex any piece of the Ukrainian territory?! That's the same guy who said the 9/11 attacks weren't the work of Al-Qaeda and that China is more democratic than the West, by the way.

The only really surprising thing about the author of that piece of crap is he was once sane enough to work as an Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury. Something seems to have snapped in his brain in the early '90s because from then on his academic career took a nose dive and he became a conspiracy theorist.

[Alejandro Sanchez]

Can't be sniper rifles for a very simple reason: the Ukrainian Parliament voted a law to disarm all the paramilitary forces. We can clearly see the Ukrainian police surrounding the hotel and the bus. Therefore any weapons in possession of the Right Sector members would have been seized before they would have been allowed to board the bus.

Maybe you´re right. But there is a belief that intelligence agencies play also their special game that is independent of the minister Avakov

[Vanoi]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-pm-med...075219445.html-

Ukraine's parliament on Tuesday approved a series of joint military exercises with NATO countries that would put US troops in direct proximity to Russian forces in the annexed Crimea peninsula.

Ukraine is heading into NATO.

[knight of meh]

put US troops in direct proximity to Russian forces in the annexed Crimea peninsula.

oh god no...

[ElvenKind]

They should invite Russian Army to join the peaceful war games, maybe have some sort of competitions in flying, shooting, swimming.. That would show how peace can be easily restored back.

[Holger Danske]

So now Yanukovich regrets his open invitation for Russian annexation of Ukrainian lands?... Hmm, interesting. It really underlines the base premise for this whole crisis. Russia would not have invaded had he not fled Ukraine, and it's basically Putin playing the ruthless opportunist. Though I wonder what Putin would have done had Yanukovich stayed in the country and lost the following election.

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

They should invite Russian Army to join the peaceful war games, maybe have some sort of competitions in flying, shooting, swimming.. That would show how peace can be easily restored back.

Uhm..I doubt Putin would agree to something like this.