Are Feminists Hypersensitive?

[Slydessertfox]

As sumskills pointed out, its not the individual that matters in these cases. Its the population as a whole. What feminism should be is every woman gets an equal shot at something, and not rejected due to gender.

Which is what it is... (among a few other things, such as equal pay).

[Phier]

Which is what it is... (among a few other things, such as equal pay).

Only its not anymore, which is why most women do not call themselves feminists.

[Slydessertfox]

Only its not anymore, which is why most women do not call themselves feminists.

Until you define what a feminist is before asking them the question. Then most women do ​identify with feminists.

[chriscase]

Which is what it is... (among a few other things, such as equal pay).

In theory, yes (academia aside). I think the simple and obvious truth about what feminism really is - if one is remotely familiar with the history - is equal opportunity and freedom from violence and bondage. Some say violence and bondage happen to everyone but I think that's glossing over the truth which is that - certainly in the past and arguably up to the present - women and children have been targets of particular varieties of violence and bondage, and those particular varieties have been treated with a range of unacceptable policies from benign neglect to outright denial. Even if the law surrounding those types of abuses has changed the enforcement is shoddy.

The devil is in the details as usual. Quotas and other incentive programs have been deemed necessary because of the pernicious nature of chauvinism in twentieth century culture. Education reforms were intended to combat this in later generations (something which may have yielded good results, I guess that's up for debate), but in the meantime stricter, more rigid standards were put in to place so as to move the needle given the sexism and misogyny that existed at the time. Now, however, it appears that the term "feminist" has been co-opted, and has become associated with misandry and academic extrapolation of galactic proportions. It's too bad, really.

I still think all this really amounts to is no pussy for you.

[Slaytaninc]

Only its not anymore, which is why most women do not call themselves feminists.

Lot's of women who don't call themselves feminists have otherwise internalized feminist views. How many women for example have you heard talk about how they wish that they couldn't inherit property if married or wish to not be allowed to vote?

Sure, feminism is now (and long has been) far more than that, but that's not really the point.

[Phier]

Lot's of women who don't call themselves feminists have otherwise internalized feminist views. How many women for example have you heard talk about how they wish that they couldn't inherit property if married or wish to not be allowed to vote?

Sure, feminism is now (and long has been) far more than that, but that's not really the point.

At what point do you stop being an "ist" when it just "is"? By that definition I'm also a "masculinist"

[hellheaven1987]

There is masculinist among trolls?

[fkizz]

I think Valden comited rape speech without even noticing it. Of course the opressed females had to fight against the cis-hierarchy dominated by privileged males, and such was an heroic act of post modernism and XXI culture advancement.

[Slydessertfox]

Lot's of women who don't call themselves feminists have otherwise internalized feminist views. How many women for example have you heard talk about how they wish that they couldn't inherit property if married or wish to not be allowed to vote?

Sure, feminism is now (and long has been) far more than that, but that's not really the point.

I found this to be the case in my Law Society and Politics class. In the beginning of that class, we had to debate a contentious issue. Most of the girls in my class took up some obvious feminist issue and took the feminist stance on it-yet when my teacher asked the class who was feminist, only a couple of them actually identified as a feminist.

[trance]

In their mind anyone with a penis is a man and anyone with a vagina is a woman, no matter what said person says in contradiction to that. A rather outdated genitalia-based gender binary which millions of transgender, genderfluid, and agender folk prove incorrect by simply existing.



They support the L in LGBTQPIA, so they view it as a developmental/genetic thing. They incorrectly view being trans as a choice, though.

Indeed, transgenderism is a serious psychological issue that is being marginalized/ignored by society. It's the only psychological identity disorder which is treated through state-assisted mutilation (a very barbarous act) and dopingclassed medications. Trans has nothing at all to do with LGB though, that's the issue, stop trying to mix GID with sexual deviant orientation (since there is no serious mental health implications of being homo- or bisexual, there is however serious problems amongst people suffering from different kinds of identity disorders).

Third wave feminism and its associated post structural theory is a totalitarian and anti-rational school of thought that shares very similar tenents to other similar ideologies, hence "feminazi" however ridiculous it might sound is actually far more accurate than you might think at first glance.

P.S.
Slydessertfox, this seems to be a national thing then since virtually EVERYONE calls themselves feminist in Sweden. Yet just a few agrees with the extremists, the main problem is that third wave feminists have been successful in thrashing any and all opposition through personal insult, implications and appealing to emotionality rather than rationality.

[Toho]

There's such a thing as anti-male discrimination, but people who say it's anywhere near as bad as misogyny deserve to be laughed at in public.

Alright, time for feminism definitions, since clearly nobody in this thread knows what the hell they're talking about.

oh look its you again, the guy who posted blogs as a legitimate source of information and was adamant that women were paid less than men until both you and ferrets pretty much got screwed by your own sources.
I can believe you are back here again spewing the same as last time.

you want to play again? alright.
please. provide the examples and the source.

I've met plenty of women that are stronger than me, just as I've meant plenty of women who I am stronger than. You might be stronger than most women. Yet all men are not stronger than all women and all women are not stronger than all men. A lot does go into it genetically, but the genetics depends on the individual, not necessarily on the gender. I'm not trying to claim that men and women are equal biologically, which should be fairly obvious from what I am saying.

its pretty broad to say "stronger" are we talking about muscles? stamina? an actual fight?
also if someone puts their efforts into something they will be better at it however if you have to people of different genders training at the same level then most likely the male will out perform the female.
if I sit on my ass all day then most probably the girl that goes to the gym every day would probably knock me out or out run me in seconds.
anyways the point is if women and men were 'genetically' capable of being great athletes of the same level then lets have them compete against each other in the olympics.
Male Canadian Hockey team vs Female Canadian Hockey team, I am pretty sure we know whats going to happen.


I will be waiting.

[Himster]

Third wave feminism has cried wolf too many times to be taken seriously anymore. They have belittled the genuine trauma of sexism to such a degree that very few people consider sexism an issue anymore, it's just perceived as a thing that crazy feminists whine about in the craziest manner possible, like 911 truthers, or UFO nut-jobs (which to be fair the loudest proponents of feminism are actually like that). Third wave feminism as an ideology has proven itself to be counter-productive to achieving anything positive, it's time for it to fall by the way-side and allow egalitarianism be the voice of moderate social progress. Radicalism can no longer work on this issue, in the west anyway, the middle-east and Africa is a totally different story.

[trance]

Completely missed that someone tried to preach biological similarity. It's a great offense to women, and especially female athletes to marginalize the physical differences between men and women, since men have an immense inherent physical advantage both in regards to cardiovascular capacity and anaerobic ability. You are essentially devalueing these athletes' effort and incredible progress by comparing them with a category of people who are born with bodies tailored for progress in these fields. I've never met a woman who is physically stronger than me, despite moving in avenues where this would be likely if it was 'only' genetical. Which it naturally isn't.

For the record, the physical differences are not just limited to sports. The biological differences are so great that some medications have entirely different effects on the body of women and men. And let's not even get started on psychological traits.

[Slydessertfox]

I'm still at a loss for where I said there were no differences between men and women. In fact, I believe I stressed that this was not what I believed.

[trance]

You did say that genetics and individual factors explained more than group variations, and I mean that this isn't entirely true. With this I mean that the "spans" are far from closely aligned.

[chriscase]

If we think of hormones as drugs, is this anything more significant than drug interactions? When a doctor prescribes something, if the patient is already on another drug, the doctor has to assess whether the interaction of the drugs is going to be detrimental or not. Other drugs work better in combination. If that other drug is a typical dose of male/female hormones, the medical difference means little in terms of the gender identity of the individual, it's just how much of that particular drug that person happens to have running around in the body at that time.

[trance]

Oh yes, they are classified as such and are otherwise illegal to use for whatever reason.

[Phier]

If we think of hormones as drugs, is this anything more significant than drug interactions? When a doctor prescribes something, if the patient is already on another drug, the doctor has to assess whether the interaction of the drugs is going to be detrimental or not. Other drugs work better in combination. If that other drug is a typical dose of male/female hormones, the medical difference means little in terms of the gender identity of the individual, it's just how much of that particular drug that person happens to have running around in the body at that time.

I'm not sure I follow where you are going here. For hormones the difference is innate to being a male or a female. My wife and I recently did full bloodwork and her "normal" and my "normal" for the same hormones are based on our sex.

Genetics determines the hormone levels, which in turn, determines a lot about secondary sexual characteristics. Some speculate with evidence that issues with these levels during early fetal development is what causes homosexuality. I've only seen that for males though, few seem to care as much about female homosexuality and the causes, which would be an actual case of sexism I think.

They even tried to "cure" homosexuality with testosterone but that ended rather comically (they wanted more gay sex).

But obviously you know this, so help me out on where you were going

[chriscase]

Simply that there is no reason to treat the physiology of sex as anything more than it is - physiology. Important, yes, practically inescapable - certainly for most of us. But there is no reason to treat it as more than a ubiquitous set of physiological traits that do vary somewhat from individual to individual.

My point is that those who want to treat the physiology as if it were identical to the abstract concepts of masculine and feminine, then make categorical statements about masculinity/femininity and back them up as empirical with physiological evidence are on shaky categorical ground.

[trance]

The physiological differences have far reaching psychological implications.