Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

[Oznerol]

The Pinnacle of Praise. Thank you.

Yes, we all know of overly-ambitious mods that died in the past. We hope that our approach is concise and contained enough to make it's release more achievable and imminent.

After S2TW was released it seemed that the M2TW engine might be too antiquated. But after everything the truth turns out that the old AI and the battle engine of M2TW is still in many ways better than the later titles. With the long history of AI improvements over the years, this mod can be made to behave in very challenging ways that are missed in ETW, NTW, S2TW, and R2TW.

In fact, with my later rig and a little tweaking, I can play HQ resolution battles with historically accurate army sizes (10,000 men) in this mod. Graphical enhancements and other techniques can be used to improve the battle maps themselves as well.

While I'm posting..
UPDATE: Well on my end I'm slowed by RL a bit. I'm testing the current build, haven't encountered any issues. Stitching the custom UI together with it is coming along. A few graphic slivers left to adjust here and there. I'm reworking the B&R logo. And the new portrait stack is now at around 300.

Modeller GeMiNi][SaNDy has offered to be our new core model volunteer. I have supplied him with some reference material and guidelines, and he thinks he can begin in about two weeks or so. And MrrRandomDude says he wants to make some of our custom strat models too.

Oznerol: If you really want to help out, I'd encourage you to PM Roz and offer your assistance with his scripting drudge at the very least. If you have old code habits, you'd at least be competent enough for him to count on to help modify unit cost rows etc.. Those kinds of things that just eat up time.

My pleasure.

And yes, Med TW II still has a long life, and in many ways, as you said, it is far more enjoyable and moddable than later titles. And graphics aren't bad, as aren't the textures and models, some mods have incredibly beautiful and detailed units, like the classy Rusichi's.

I will eagerly wait to see your portrait set, that is a must for every historical mod since the original game's ones are incredibly poor.

I could very well help you with those minor tasks, so you could focus in more important areas, like codding the new units and such. I'll send him a pm, I'll be glad to help even if little.

Regards

Ps: Sorry for the late reply, I was busy.
Ps2: I was in Yorkish mood the other day... A present for all those Ricardians out there:

[Used2BRoz]

Update : modding coming along, the settlement mechanics changes seem to be working but will need more longer time testing.
I'm thinking of doing the bishops and titles next for the vanilla settlements, just to see how they work.
Not planning on doing anything clever with the graphics - just placeholders for now.
But need to get the triggers working properly.
After that some work on the buildings -adding new ones, working out what benefits they can bring to settlements and characters.

Once all that is working I'll release an updated version of the alpha.
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If you can access them, the BBC is broadcasting a series of programmes about the Plantagenets, part one is tonight :
http://www.royalcentral.co.uk/royaltyinthemedia/preview-of-episode-one-of-the-plantagenets-25130

[liayaongxiyang]

I think that this mod will release this mod on first January 2015

[Live2sculpt]

Adding music and native languages. French will speak French, German will speak German... Replaced the vanilla menu sounds with something a bit softer too. I really dislike the horrible sounds of trash cans being slammed onto the pavement whenever I select to start a campaign. Esp when I'm testing over and over.

Should I hold off testing the campaign on my larger system until another progress update is shared?

[Used2BRoz]

Another update should be coming out soon - hopefully some time next week.
quick progress report:
- changed some of the build times for buildings, nothing drastic, just bumped some up a bit.
- main work has been doing the ancillaries. -So far all dukes and earls are in, but many lack triggers atm as the settlements they need to link to aren't in the alpha game. So once the initial owner of a title has dies the title will fall into disuse for now. I've made titles transferable, so players will be able to juggle them around, promote key people etc.
Also in are some of the bishops and archbishops - although only those with settlements named on the map are given triggers for now.
I have about 10 Barons that need to go for named characters already in the game, sons of earls etc.
So far it looks like the triggers are working well.
I've pretty much given all the earls the same qualities for now, the title refers to their land holdings as much as anything. Bigger ones could be given an economic boost.
A this stage it's more important to get things working, that way they can be upscaled and reproduced more easily when we get started on the beta.
Not touched the scottish nobility or bishops etc.
Still finding some errors that will need sorting out.
Also I'll do the main offices of state as well as ancillaries before I release anything.
-and I've started work on the victory conditions for the starting factions - basically wales (Lancaster) has to outlive ireland (York) and vice versa.
(and i've done the same for the norwegians and scots just to keep them busy north of the border)
everyone else has to survive
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More testing - well first alpha looks stable - so a break can be taken until the next version comes out.
I'll play each faction for 20 turns before releasing it just to check for problems.

[k/t]

"French will speak French, German will speak German"

Are you talking about accents? Or did you somehow get sound files in other languages?

[Live2sculpt]

"French will speak French, German will speak German"

Are you talking about accents? Or did you somehow get sound files in other languages?

Actual Languages. I studied after Beiss some years back, and am now possibly the most knowledgeable modder of incorporating his Zenophonia files, as well as rebuilding custom sound packs in general. I never completed the sets for Ancient Greek and 'Arabic' languages, but certainly have the audio for French, Italian, and German well in hand. I've also adjusted the English a bit as well, so that they aren't all doing everything 'for England!'. I'm looking into adding new language sets for English variances, but that can come much later.

For now the planning for BETA sounds will be; French will speak in French, Flanders will speak an assortment of German Accents and French Accents, German Mercenaries will speak in German, Italian Mercenaries will speak in Italian, Burgundian Mercenaries will speak in French, Scotland will have Scottish accents of course, and Irish Rebels will get an adjusted version of Scottish Accent for themselves. All English factions will speak in customized English. Also battle sounds will be tweaked; The useless and insipid adviser will be SHUT UP, and the tired and repetitive vanilla battle music will be replaced or eliminated.

Much of this is not needed for the ALPHA though, and would needlessly bloat the size of the test copy too much to put it in before BETA.

[Live2sculpt]

Another update should be coming out soon - hopefully some time next week.
....
More testing - well first alpha looks stable - so a break can be taken until the next version comes out.
I'll play each faction for 20 turns before releasing it just to check for problems.

I only tested as far as turn 22 myself. Seems to run just fine, though I only did three or four battles.

I'll wait until your next pack.

In the background I have about 3 or 4 individuals who may be available to do some graphics work, and might have made progress, but I have no new reports yet.

[morfeasnikos]

A very intresting project. Best luck!

[Live2sculpt]

Roz- I'm doing the Factions for the ALPHA menu. Could you share you latest drafts or summaries on their descriptions and objectives? I could write them up myself, but expect that you have something written down or in mind already, and would prefer to use yours. Thanks.

[Used2BRoz]

I haven't thought about the faction summaries for the alpha yet.
Until I work out how to change the on-screen names of the factions there's not much point doing the summaries for the factions.
It will only confuse people even more. Hopefully that might be the next big element to sort out.
But I'll let you have something for the next version after the one I release next week.
Been doing more testing - up to turn 47 with the Nevilles - things looking good, no errors or CTDs.
AI factions now fielding some big armies - but the game seems quite well balanced - nobody has been eliminated.
the "norwegians" have captured Inverness; scots have taken a couple of rebel castles ; england has lost its irish settlements to ireland (york) ; wales (lancaster) hasn't done much at all ;
and the nevilles have captured 3 irish settlements, shrewsbury and a scottish island. This all on normal difficulty.
So much more to do, can't spend to long on it at a time though.

Like any mod - as I play so I spot things that I can change to improve it - but it all takes times to do and test, and in some cases research.

[Live2sculpt]

I haven't thought about the faction summaries for the alpha yet.
Until I work out how to change the on-screen names of the factions there's not much point doing the summaries for the factions.
It will only confuse people even more. Hopefully that might be the next big element to sort out.
But I'll let you have something for the next version after the one I release next week.
Been doing more testing - up to turn 47 with the Nevilles - things looking good, no errors or CTDs.
AI factions now fielding some big armies - but the game seems quite well balanced - nobody has been eliminated.
the "norwegians" have captured Inverness; scots have taken a couple of rebel castles ; england has lost its irish settlements to ireland (york) ; wales (lancaster) hasn't done much at all ;
and the nevilles have captured 3 irish settlements, shrewsbury and a scottish island. This all on normal difficulty.
So much more to do, can't spend to long on it at a time though.

Like any mod - as I play so I spot things that I can change to improve it - but it all takes times to do and test, and in some cases research.

Very well. As I have experience with customizing those texts, with no functional repercussions, I'll make the changes, and enter sufficient 'placeholder' text until you submit more specific descriptions.

*EDIT* Done. Now York is York, Warwick is Warwick, and Lancaster is Lancaster. In the Menu and on the Map.

*EDIT* Are you waiting for me to upload The sounds and graphics package first? Because I'm waiting for you to upload the updated campaign files to add them to.

[Used2BRoz]

I'm looking for titles of books that might be added as ancillaries - to replace the religious relics of M2:TW. I've found a few references, and it looks like Edward IV's court was a centre for humanist intellectuals to a certain degree. Caxton didn't start his press in Westminster until 1476, so I'll change the date you can build the printing press to that (later.)
It's clear that Bruges was an important source for books, both printed and hand-made.

Once the mod is well underway we could incorporate both pilgrimages to Rome, and visits to Italian and other centres of learning.

Anyway here's a facebook page showing some illustrations form books that were in Edward IV's personal library :
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...8&l=6c7e63c53e

[Live2sculpt]

I'm looking for titles of books that might be added as ancillaries .....

Any 'book' ancillary and it's affects would be MUCH more convincingly represented by a follower with a job.

Buildings, swords, relics, banners..... MY studies of the period captured my attention when I realize that everything back then was ultimately held together with nothing more than the hands and hearts of PEOPLE. To that end, I move away from a contemporary object-oriented approach, and find as many different followers to literally POPULATE the ancillaries with. Bodyguards, Henchmen, Priests, Dogs, Venetian Merchants, Papal Advisers, Master Builders, Executioners, Mercenary Captains, Heralds, Court Council, etc. etc.

The objects mean little without the people who used them. The so-called 'building art' custom drawn for BETA is already people; Farrier, Master Farrier, Blacksmith, Master Blacksmith, Towne Guards, Towne Warden, Castle Steward, Monk, Barber, Barrister, Scribe, Minister, Page, Squire, Armorer, Baker, Bookbinder, Bowyer, Brewer, Butcher, Chandler, Carpenter, Cartwright, Clothier, Cooper, Innkeeper, Tavern-Keeper, Leather Worker, Jailer, Shipwright, Tax Collector, Torturer, Boatmen, Farmers, Reeve, Fishermen, Herdsmen, Millers, Miners, Rat-Catchers, Stevedores, Forester, Gatekeeper.......

All of these are possible 'ancillaries', 'buildings', and 'resources', each with their proper modifiers and appropriate benefits. The aesthetic difference is that THIS approach makes the game more personable, and indeed, more like to the period being described.

Another reason I took this approach is that I am trying to create a body of custom period styled art for the BETA. And that style of art reflects the reality of the period in this way; PEOPLE are the focus of the art. The objects they used are much more vague. Take any example...



...It isn't that they did not understand what buildings etc. looked like... It's that they DIDN'T CARE.

Consequently my UI work has the B&R Mod chock full of little medieval people staring back at the player as he marshals his resources for battle.

Clearly they enjoyed books where they could, and certain volumes were popular among nobles. I just don't think that they were meaningful enough for any single book to merit a modifier in this game. For all the books in Edward IV's library, why not just give him a 'literate' trait, or sum them up as "Personal Library". Because ultimately that's what it was about. Having any access at all to some knowledge. As apposed to everyone else, who had almost none.

[Used2BRoz]

Pah - you're talking to a former professional librarian - we think books are very important and will be in the game

[k/t]

"The useless and insipid adviser will be SHUT UP"

If you use G5's AI, the adviser is already shut up, as it is used to trigger battle scripts.

[Live2sculpt]

"The useless and insipid adviser will be SHUT UP"

If you use G5's AI, the adviser is already shut up, as it is used to trigger battle scripts.

Really? Are you referring to the voice-over with oh-so-helpful comments such as "The tide is turning against us!"
I hadn't heard about that.

Well, implementing ReallybadAI in the B&R will be Roz' call. I doubt my sound fix will interfere if he chooses to employ it.

[Live2sculpt]

Hey Roz, How are we looking for an ALPHA release next week?

From you pm,

Suggested road map :

.......................

That will be the alpha 0.1 release i think - a workable version of the vanilla game.

Alpha 0.2 I see as that plus any simple enhancements plus some flavour - new GUI, quotes, and new sky, trees, water etc.

Alpha 0.3 will be all that plus some new elements, traits and triggers, ancilliaries.

Alpha 0.4 all that with whatever new units that fit for purpose. Plus maybe the BAI for the game.

Alpha 0.5 will be the last of the ones using the vanilla map, with any other items that are ready to go, tweaking etc.

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The Beta 0.1 will be the new map with as much of the extras from the alpha stage incorporated, plus any other items we have ready to roll.

By next week I'll be in a position to upload all the music, GUI, and map tweaks, with the exception of the custom art pics. I'm currently prioritizing the re-skinning of the strat models to coordinate with the new factions.

I 'think' that would support what you called the Alpha 0.2 (?)

Do you expect to have the hard playable material ready for me to wrap into this glossy progress by the first week of this April (this being March 26)?

If so, then my plan will be to take your next upload, stitch it together with my working build, test it for 10 turns, and then post it as the Alpha 0.2 for others to play the next day.

And IF we can do THAT, I suggest we apply for a Hosted Mod Forum slot next month, and move everything over to there. Hopefully gaining enough visibility that could garner more participation than the PMs I'm getting.

[Used2BRoz]

Here's a snapshot of the latest changes to the vanilla Kingdoms mod.

Uploaded alpha02 here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=4075
Blood and Roses precursor mod
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Alpha 0.2 update
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Re-assigned Cork and Tipperary to rebel faction
added James Butler, Earl of Ormond to england faction and put him in Dublin as Lieutenant of Ireland
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Added numerous bishops and both archbishops as ancillaries
Added most dukes and earls active at late summer 1453
Added associated barons / lords active that date plus a few important individuals
Created necessary family trees for all named characters in england, barons_alliance, factions
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Upgraded numerous settlements with better buildings
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Changed alchemy buildings to: grammar school, college, university
assigned ancillaries and character traits to those buildings, replacing alchemists etc.
added following buildings: Parliament, Exchequer, Chancellory, Law Courts
added admiralty and military academy buildings
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re-worked the victory conditions for all factions
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re-worked settlement mechanics for the game to reduce public order and population growth
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re-worked EDB to re-assign units that can be recruited, including mercenaries.
re-worked EDB to change building times more in line with 4 TPY
re-worked EDB to change building costs, lowering more expensive building costs
re-worked EDB to change free-upkeep in castles and towns
removed most of the cavalry units from the EDB, leaving just hobilars and equivalents, and top level heavy cavalry that you probably won't see until late in the game, if at all.
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removed many unnecessary character traits and ancillaries
added a few princess related character traits
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increased free_upkeep in forts as AI likes to keep whole stacks in there sometimes.
Increased free_upkeep in towns and castles slightly
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plus some other bits and pieces I've forgotten to mention.

Feedback welcome on progress so far - and ideas for what else to do.
The file contains a text file with some of the things I want to work on over the next few weeks.

Slowly but surely the mod is evolving into something a bit more 15th century.

[Live2sculpt]

Here's a snapshot of the latest changes to the vanilla Kingdoms mod.

Uploaded alpha02 here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...f9cdbeec6d9a0f

Blood and Roses precursor mod

I think you linked to the item itself. Security token issue tripped, so I can't retrieve it. Try giving the url to the whole download page it is on.