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Thread: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

  1. #1
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Icon14 Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era



    This is the continuation of the WotR Mod begun by Rozanov in 2010.

    First envisioned as a sub-mod for the popular Stainless Steel Mod by Gracul, the Blood & Roses Mod (or B&R) is to now be a stand-alone modification built out from the original Britannia Mod from Creative Assembly.

    To view the original thread from when this mod was first under development, go to http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...aign-for-SS6-4

    I am Live2sculpt (L2S), humble games industry artist and the guy who took up the charge for the look and feel of B&R. Used2BRoz (Rozanov) is still on point as the mods founder and decider on its actual functions. Many of the elements from the earlier development have been kept on file, and now may be incorporated in this new build.

    Other credited contributors from before are invited to rejoin this project if they are available and interested, including Corbeau, Snelhest, John Haukewood, and deadhead1971. If YOU want to contribute to B&R, chime in!

    The Blood & Roses Mod is a focused campaign mod that deals with the War of the Roses. For those unfamiliar, The War of the Roses was a dynastic feud fought between royal houses of England in the late 15th Century. The final mod will use a large 260 x 260 pixel map of England, 12 turns per year, custom graphics and music, and present a simple force selection representative of the period and region, that includes cannon, handguns, and full gothic plate armor.
    More details can be gleaned below, from Roz's original vision of the mod's contents. Some of these details have since been modified, or are reserved for inclusion/refinement in later versions.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Factions:


    The Main Factions
    ---------------------------

    non-playable
    ------------------
    King
    Ireland (or maybe just rebels and mercs)
    Scotland (or maybe just rebels and mercs)
    France (or maybe just rebels and mercs)
    misc minor factions

    Noble Factions - playable with family and own castles
    ----------------------

    Lancaster (emergent if King has an heir)
    York
    Neville (possibly 2 neville factions?)
    Percy
    Stafford
    Stanley
    Butler (Ireland)
    de Vere
    Courtney
    Talbot
    Hastings
    Bourchier
    Grey of Ruthin
    Tiptoft
    de la Pole
    Clifford
    Beaufort
    Mowbray
    FitzAlan
    Holland
    Tudor
    Grey of Wilton
    Wydville
    Fitzgerald (Ireland)

    Minor factions - named with own castles but not playable
    --------------------
    Hungerford
    Dacre
    Devereaux
    Welles
    Berkeley
    Bonville
    Audley
    Fiennes
    Scales
    Cromwell
    Scrope
    Le Strange
    Greystoke
    Hoo
    Ros
    Beauchamp
    Beaumont


    Archbishops + Bishops
    -----------------------------------

    A of Canterbury
    A of York
    B of Winchester
    London
    Bath and Wells
    Lincoln
    Ely
    Durham
    Norwich
    Bangor
    Carlisle
    Chichester
    Hereford
    Salisbury
    Worcester
    Llandaff
    St Davids
    St Asaph
    Coverntry + Lichfield
    Rochester
    Exeter


    Offices of State
    -----------------------

    Chancellor
    Treasurer
    King's Chamberlain
    Steward of the Household
    Chief Butler
    Admiral of England
    Captain of Calais
    Warden of the Cinque Ports
    High Steward
    Earl Marshall
    Great Chamberlain
    Constable of England
    Warden of Eastern March
    Warden of Western March
    Lieut of Ireland


    Principle Towns and Cities and Castles
    --------------------------------------------------------

    London
    Westminster (Royal)
    Southwark
    Tower of London (Royal)

    By County:

    Bedfordshire
    -----------------
    Bedford

    Berkshire
    --------------
    Reading
    Wallingford
    Windsor Castle (Royal)

    Buckinghamshire
    -------------------------
    Wycombe

    Cambridgeshire
    ----------------------
    Cambridge

    Cheshire
    -------------
    Chester Castle (Royal)

    Cornwall
    ------------
    Bodmin
    Helston
    Launceston (also Castle (Royal))
    Liskeard
    Lostwithiel
    Truro

    Cumberland
    -----------------
    Carlisle (also Castle (Royal))
    Kendal Castle (Royal)

    Derbyshire
    ---------------
    Derby

    Devon
    ---------
    Barnstaple
    Dartmouth
    Exeter
    Plymouth
    Tavistock
    Totnes

    Dorset
    ---------
    Bridport
    Corfe Castle (Royal)
    Dorchester
    Lyme regis
    Melcombe Regis
    Poole
    Shaftesbury
    Wareham
    Weymouth

    Durham
    -----------
    Durham (Bishop of Durham)
    Norham Castle (Bishop of Durham)

    Essex
    ---------
    Colchester Castle (Royal)
    Malden

    Gloucestershire
    -----------------------
    Bristol (also Castle (Royal))
    Gloucester (also Castle (Royal))
    St Briavels Castle (Royal) (Forest of Dean)

    Herefordshire
    -------------------
    Hereford
    Leominster

    Hertfordshire
    ------------------
    Hertford Castle (Royal)

    Huntingdonshire
    -----------------------
    Huntingdon

    Kent
    -------
    Canterbury
    Leeds Castle (Royal)
    Rochester Castle (Royal)

    Lancashire
    ----------------

    Leicestershire
    ---------------------
    Leicester

    Lincolnshire
    -----------------
    Grantham
    Grimsby
    Lincoln (also Castle (Royal)
    Stamford

    Middlesex
    ---------------

    Norfolk
    ----------
    Bishops Lynn
    Castle Rising (Royal)
    Norwich (also Castle (Royal))
    Yarmouth

    Northamptonshire
    --------------------------
    Northampton (also Castle (Royal))

    Northumberland
    -----------------------
    Berwick (also Castle (Royal))
    Newcastle-on-Tyne (also Castle (Royal))

    Nottinghamshire
    ------------------------
    Nottingham (also Castle (Royal))

    Oxfordshire
    -----------------
    Oxford

    Rutland
    -----------

    Shropshire
    ----------------
    Bridgnorth Castle (Royal)
    Ludlow
    Shrewsbury

    Somerset
    --------------
    Bath
    Bridgwater
    Taunton
    Wells

    Southamptonshire
    ---------------------------
    Carisbrooke Castle (Royal) (IoW)
    Porchester Castle (Royal)
    Portsmouth
    Southampton
    Winchester (also Castle (Royal))

    Staffordshire
    ------------------
    Newcastle-under-Lyme
    Stafford

    Suffolk
    ----------
    Dunwich
    Ipswich

    Surrey
    ----------
    Bletchingley
    Guildford
    Reigate
    Southwark

    Sussex
    -----------
    Arundel
    Chichester
    East Grinstead
    Horsham
    Lewes
    Midhurst
    Shoreham

    Warwickshire
    -------------------
    Coventry
    Warwick

    Westmoreland
    ---------------------
    Appleby

    Wiltshire
    -------------
    Bedwin
    Calne
    Chippenham
    Cricklade
    Devizes
    Malmesbury
    Marlborough
    Salisbury
    Wilton

    Worcestershire
    ----------------------
    Worcester

    Yorkshire
    --------------
    Hull
    Pontefract Castle (Royal)
    Scarborough Castle (Royal)
    York

    Cinque Ports
    ------------------
    Dover Castle (Royal)
    Hastings
    Hythe
    Romney
    Rye
    Sandwich
    Winchelsea

    Wales
    ----------
    Aberystwyth Castle (Royal)
    Brecknock Castle (Royal)
    Carnarvon Castle (Royal)
    Cardiff Castle (Royal)
    Cardigan Castle (Royal)
    Carmarthen Castle (Royal)
    Conway Castle (Royal)
    Flint Castle (Royal)
    Harlech Castle (Royal)
    Rhyddlan Castle (Royal)

    Ireland
    ---------

    Dublin Castle (Royal)
    Wicklow Castle (Royal)

    plus relevant minor lords where they'll fit on the map!


    Units for Wars of the Roses Mod
    -----------------------------------------------
    English:

    Chivalric Knights
    Gothic Knights
    Mounted archers (as light cavalry)
    Dismlounted Chivalric Knight
    Dismounted men-at-arms - sword
    Dismounted men-at-arms - pole axe
    Dismounted men at arms - war hammer
    Armed men infantry - billmen
    Armed men infantry - halberdiers
    Lightly Armed men infantry (County Levy) - glaives
    Lightly Armed men infantry (County Levy) - spear
    Crossbowmen
    Arbalester
    Hand gunners
    Yeoman (County Levy) Longbowmen
    Retinue (dismounted) Longbowmen
    Town militia - pole arms
    Town Militia - Longbowmen
    Castle Garrison Crossbowmen
    Castle Garrison Armoured Swordsmen
    Castle Garrison Hand gunners

    Bombards
    Culverins
    Demi-culverins

    Irish:

    Kern
    Pikemen
    Hobelar
    Swordsmen

    Mercenaries:

    Flemish pikemen
    Burgundian hand gunners
    German artillerymen
    Gascon Mounted crossbows
    Mounted men-at-arms
    Dismounted men-at-arms
    Scottish pikemen
    Scottish light cavalry


    might also include some monasteries, abbeys, priories

    all subject to discussion, revision etc.


    Though we have already built a custom map for the B&R Mod (below), it will surely need some testing. However, plans are being considered to pre-launch the mod using the Britannia map first.



    Here too, is an example of our custom UI work for the mod. An effort was made to utilize design styles, textures, and articles prevalent during the War of the Roses period.




    We are very fortunate to have Graham Turner's blessing to use his paintings relating to the period. They are unrivaled in illustrative skill and knowledgeable accuracy. Here below then, are the load screens for the Blood & Roses Mod.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 







    Here are a sampling of the type of graphics used in the game. Select and carefully managed woodcuts from the period. When completed, will be over parchment with colors.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Though the 'cast of characters' have not yet been finalized, a great deal of effort has gone into researching which ones might be active in this mod. Here below is a selection of heraldry. You can read the names along the sides of the thumbnails to get a feel for who might be represented.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









    At the same time we acquired Graham Turner's permission to use his art to help set the tone of our mod, we also got limited permission to use samples of the work of Sylvia and Eric of the period musical duo Asteria. I find their work to be elegant and transporting, and combined with the period art, will serve to complete a uniquely immersive experience for the B&R player.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB4CehJEK8A


    And here below, are a selection of sig banners that can be used by anyone willing to promote the effort of the Blood & Roses Mod (again, making use of Graham Turner's excellent work). Especially for those who hope to participate in helping it forward.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 











    Likely Roz will also follow up with his updated lists on what the mod will ultimately contain, as well as his projections for our pipeline moving forward. Which will likely include playable Beta versions in the near future and at each stage of development.
    Last edited by Live2sculpt; February 22, 2014 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #2
    King William the Conqueror's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Looks epic! +rep
    I hold the blitz record for Medieval II (106 region in 7 turns) set in January 2024.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Wow, L2S. Very impressed by the scope of this, and very much looking forward to the first release.

    (Count me in should you require any beta testers. )

  4. #4

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Excellent O/P !

    I think my contribution, apart from the historical research which looks pretty much complete, will mainly be coding and scripting, once I can remember how to do it
    I've got the files from the RozMod 0.7 I can draw on for some of the things I'd want to do with the mod.

    As I envisage things there's a lot we can do to the original campaign using the map etc to make it look like the 15th century.
    However, for the full Mod to work we'll need L2S's map with all the trimmings.

    For now though, to kick-start the project, I think working with the existing map will be about all I can manage.
    I'll start with just updating the settlements, and re-assigning them to the various factions.

    (Note you'll have to wait awhile until we can transition to get the full list of factions. To begin with they'll still look like the welsh, irish and norse for example.)

    We have names files we can use, but it start we'll use the existing ones - I'd rather put out small incremental changes that work, than wait forever for a big mod that's fully developed.

    The three (maybe 4) playable factions will be Lancaster, York, Neville and (and possibly Scotland)
    Wales, Ireland and Norway will not in the game as factions so those identifiers can be used to begin with for Lancaster, York and Neville.

    The main non-playable faction will be england - it covers all the non-alligned town and cities and to begin with the nobility.
    There will also be a slave faction representing peasant revolts, and areas outside the control of the other factions.

    Minor factions will be added as and when we can do all the necessary work for them.

    I'll be adding some buildings I did for the RozMod after the first release, and probably, if I get time, adding some more to give some variety to the settlements.

    There's no pope in the game, the brittania mod uses "culture" instead, but it's the same mechanism.
    We shall have to see what are the best ways of representing "influence", but the idea, currently, is to require a certain level of influence for the main factions in a region, before they can recruit units there. For this purpose, priests can be used. Churches however, as per Brittania mod, only give public order benefits, not influence.

    Equally there's no crusades.

    The EDU will, of course, require some work (!) and anyone with models we can use, or who wants to develop new ones we'll gratefully take on board.
    This is really beyond my competence, so I shall look forward to seeing what other people can do.

    The aim of the game : well for Lancaster and York it's all about destroying each other. We'll add the Beauforts to the House of Lancaster to give them a better chance of surviving.
    Neville has to be allied to the royal faction that wins that contest to "win"

    And if you want to play scotland -well you have to defeat all three of the others.

    -----------

    Other mods and sub-mods - at this stage nothing has been included or excluded. There are plenty of mods out there which can add to the game in different ways,and which are open to Mods like this incorporating the, provided the necessary credit is given. Ideas on this are most welcome. I'd like to use some graphical enhancement mods, and some game play mods, and some to do with traits and triggers, etc.

    ------

    Note :
    We do not have a timetable for releases of the is mod.
    Things will be released as and when we feel they are ready.
    So please don't fill the thread with requests for when it will be finished.

    ------------------------------------

    OK - on with the modding.
    Volunteers for doing some of the hard work most welcome

  5. #5

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Minimum requirements to play the mod:

    You'll need M2TW and Kingdoms patched up to 1.5 level.
    So make sure you have them installed and working before you install any mod based on them.

    I've no idea how this works with Steam.

    If you want to help with modding and play-testing, I'd advise unpacking the M2TW folder and the Kingdoms british_isles folders.
    Then copy the british_isles folder and rename it british_isles_backup for now.

    Until we get the mod folder sorted out, and a nice little icon for the desktop, we can just drop the necessary changed files in the working british_isles folder and run it from there.

  6. #6
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    What I need help with from someone else on MY end is a few strat models (mostly just swapped) prepared, and some minor tweaks on a few battle model skins.

    I need the Late German Gothic Plate model to be adjusted to look more like that worn by most of the English (Loose the black feather, remove fluting). I also need a Strat model of that adjusted Gothic Plate to better represent the Generals.

    I need a couple of the English billmen etc. to be re-skinned with generic colored (brown, off-white) jerkins so that they may be used by all factions.

    Pretty simple modding for someone who would like to do something relatively easy.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Nice! Good look with this project!


  8. #8
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Here are a few more images that we have permission to use, but because of their vertical format, I haven't found any application for them. They still serve as great inspiration, and even resource for any later custom figure modelling goals.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Last edited by Live2sculpt; February 20, 2014 at 12:00 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    I think those graphics might be used in conjunction with events - but I haven't worked out which yet.

    (Or new events could be written)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    That's a very interesting project, something I would definitely want to play once it's out.

  11. #11
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    We need 15th century quotes!

    They aren't easy to come by.
    We COULD make use of Shakespear, but that's not ideal.

    People simply didn't want to 'go on record' for much during that time. Perhaps because they were afraid of being killed if their side lost?

    If anyone has a good source on WotR period quotes, let us know.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    There's a list of sources of english history here :
    http://eudocs.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Britain_1066-1485

    We may find :


    A primary source for the Wars of the Roses. and the reigns of Henry VI, Edward IV, and Richard III. (1453-1486; transcriptions)

    From a Yorkist perspective. (1472; transcriptions)

    with a number of links to contemporary reporters and chroniclers from various perspectives. (chiefly 1483-1490; transcriptions)

    (transcriptions) courtesy of the Richard III Society.

    to be very useful

  13. #13
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Very interesting direct sources, but bereft of any personal quotations.

    And rather dry reading in that sense.

    If it is a choice between Shakespear or the Chroniclers, we should use the Chroniclers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Used2BRoz View Post
    There's a list of sources of english history here :
    http://eudocs.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Britain_1066-1485

    We may find :


    A primary source for the Wars of the Roses. and the reigns of Henry VI, Edward IV, and Richard III. (1453-1486; transcriptions)

    From a Yorkist perspective. (1472; transcriptions)

    with a number of links to contemporary reporters and chroniclers from various perspectives. (chiefly 1483-1490; transcriptions)

    (transcriptions) courtesy of the Richard III Society.

    to be very useful

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Definitely something to keep my eyes on! Good luck with the project, it sure looks promising!


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  15. #15
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Can I expect a completed list of buildings from Alpha 0.1? I need to have art ready for the buildings in Alpha 0.2 and would prefer to assembly-line that labor all at once if possible. One prime batch that can carry all the way through to Beta 0.1.
    Last edited by Live2sculpt; February 22, 2014 at 03:36 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Live2sculpt View Post
    Can I expect a completed list of buildings from Alpha 0.1? I need to have art ready for the buildings in Alpha 0.2 and would prefer to assembly-line that labor all at once if possible. One prime batch that can carry all the way through to Beta 0.1.
    Yes I think that is possible - I've found the information I need for my new buildings I created. I think we have to leave open the possibility that other new buildings could be created later on.

    Here's the list of new buildings for now :
    chancellory
    treasury
    law courts
    parliament
    diplomat school
    diplomat college
    hanseatic league office
    water wells
    drapers guild (3 levels)
    goldsmiths guild (3 levels)

    I have a file with the graphics for them with will do for now so I can put them into the game.
    I'm hoping I can also find the text files that go with them - I'll have to check on my other machine.

    I haven't looked at the EDB in any detail yet.
    I need to work in the events so they fire properly, which will show which buildings are available at the start of the game and which units.

    We can either edit the EDB so that units aren't built after a certain date (ie 1450) or remove the units from the EDB and move the remaining ones around.

    I also haven't looked at the EDU to see which factions can use which units. The culture requirement to recruit units should mean that most cultures can recruit the other cultures units. But I haven't begun to look at that yet.

  17. #17
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Thanks. I'd need the complete list, including all vanilla buildings that will be used. Those eventually get new art as well. This is why knowing which buildings will never be used prevents me from wasting time. For such a late period and tight timeline, there are surely several building types that have no place in the campaign setting.

    As for units, I also say just RIP the unused ones the hell out of there. We're going to be combing through these files as we go several times over. It's too damn specific a list of playable units to merit scanning past allllllll of those others that aren't even used. Leaving redundant things like unused units cluttering B&R up does nothing except increase the chances of either of us overlooking things we DO need to be concerned with.

    And re events, I'm sure you are still compiling and writing them. I think you should just erase all vanilla events and leave it mostly blank for Alpha 0.1. It's be good for you to take your time putting them together, and the Alpha can launch without them. I've already separated the events art labor for a later phase anyway.

    BTW, this is the icon I'm using on my desktop...



    Quote Originally Posted by Used2BRoz View Post
    Yes I think that is possible - I've found the information I need for my new buildings I created. I think we have to leave open the possibility that other new buildings could be created later on.

    Here's the list of new buildings for now :
    chancellory
    treasury
    law courts
    parliament
    diplomat school
    diplomat college
    hanseatic league office
    water wells
    drapers guild (3 levels)
    goldsmiths guild (3 levels)

    I have a file with the graphics for them with will do for now so I can put them into the game.
    I'm hoping I can also find the text files that go with them - I'll have to check on my other machine.

    I haven't looked at the EDB in any detail yet.
    I need to work in the events so they fire properly, which will show which buildings are available at the start of the game and which units.

    We can either edit the EDB so that units aren't built after a certain date (ie 1450) or remove the units from the EDB and move the remaining ones around.

    I also haven't looked at the EDU to see which factions can use which units. The culture requirement to recruit units should mean that most cultures can recruit the other cultures units. But I haven't begun to look at that yet.
    Last edited by Live2sculpt; February 22, 2014 at 10:44 PM.

  18. #18
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Finlander View Post
    Definitely something to keep my eyes on! Good luck with the project, it sure looks promising!
    Care to help out a bit Fin? It's a relatively small project, but we'd welcome some talented input. Esp if you have any experience with importing battle models into strat models. (=
    Last edited by Live2sculpt; February 23, 2014 at 02:35 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    I may be able to Help you with the Battle models to Strat conversion. Shoot me a PM. It is rather simple.

  20. #20
    Live2sculpt's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Blood & Roses; A Campaign Mod for the War of the Roses Era

    Quote Originally Posted by MrrRandomDude View Post
    I may be able to Help you with the Battle models to Strat conversion. Shoot me a PM. It is rather simple.
    How very random.

    PM sent.

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