General Discussion (Original Mod Thread)

**Beiss** · November 21, 2006, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by HellsIronChef

Hi i know i'm probably a little late in posting this but for Latin there are very specific pronunciation rules, most of which i don't even want to think about now cuz i have to do a latin translation for homework but lol yeah i'm a Latin II student in high school but you are pretty right for doing a Latin translation with Spaniards and Italians because the Romans and later the Ecclesial Italians would have a tendency to roll their Rs (but also Ecclesial Latin was not the formal Latin that most of us study in schools today, it was more so a medley of the priest who preached it and where they were, also you have to take into account how the Church shifted from Latin into the Vernacular languages in the 1500s) so it all plays into the background, but i'm not too bad a Latin speaker for an American lol, then again i'm pretty fluent in French and a little in Spanish so i can impersonate the different accents pretty well but if you have questions on Latin pronunciation please be free to ask me but Im not the best for more advanced Latin Vocabulary but if you show it to me i can probably tell you everything you need to know and depending on your ethnicity i could give you a viable pronunciation guide for it but if u but heres a few quick tips to Latin

Man, that stuff is a pain to read. Don't you ever use periods?

Originally Posted by HellsIronChef

2) look up Latin words online because the macron can make the difference (macrons for those who don't know are the sort of accents that they put in modern texts to represent accents marks) like in Milite (because the last e has a macron usually, it would be said Milih-tay instead of Milih-teh )

...
...
...

So although Beiss' assumptions are pretty much correct sometimes the Americans are right with the -ay lol as much as I myself hate to admit it
but definitely your best bet would be to have a person from each group to speak Latin, like Germans, poles, Russians etc because they would all add that flair of their native regions that would have been distinctive to the church at that time because no one spoke the Latin that we learned in schools since 21AD

You know, I still don't believe for one second that the last syllable of a word like "milite" was pronounced "milih-tay", especially not during the middle ages (other than by the English, that is). Possibly a slight... tendency towards an i, but very slight. But yeah - the idea is to let a Spanish person do the Latin recordings for the Spanish, etc. so pronounciation is going to be different anyway. Just like in medieval times.

But yes, we can use your help with translating into Latin.

**Pyrgopolynices** · November 21, 2006, 12:40 PM

No, it wasn't militay, but ['mi li tê]. Like the português (portuguese) or acheter (french).

This vocal isn't used in english, so it's a bit difficult to explain the phonema graphically.

**mac89** · November 21, 2006, 12:50 PM

The common pronounciation is mi li té (ee) like Pyrgopolynices said.

**Beiss** · November 21, 2006, 02:24 PM

Ah. Like a Swedish long e, kinda. Or not?

Is it anything like the "ea" in "hear" in English? That's sort of like the "er" in "acheter", I think. Never did that well in French class.

**mac89** · November 21, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Beiss

Ah. Like a Swedish long e, kinda. Or not?

Is it anything like the "ea" in "hear" in English? That's sort of like the "er" in "acheter", I think. Never did that well in French class.

Its more like Pedro with a long 'e'.

**Beiss** · November 21, 2006, 02:47 PM

Then... what does the short Latin e sound like?

EDIT: On the top of this page, you can listen to someone saying "Portuguese" in Portuguese. It's said twice, and in what sounds like 2 different accents. The latter sounds like a tendency towards an "ay" sound, not just an "e". But I still don't know what a short Latin e sounds like, if this is what the long one sounds like.

**Pyrgopolynices** · November 21, 2006, 03:56 PM

That's an english saying português in Portuguese PT and Portuguese BR. Let me see if I can give you an example...

editing in a few minutes...

Here it is.

http://media.putfile.com/e-36

**HellsIronChef** · November 21, 2006, 09:40 PM

lol thats pretty awesome how u post sound clips like that but when i said -ay i meant like the canadian eh lol oh wells im better at saying stuff instead of typing it up, but to your comment Beiss i don't use periods cuz i never really think about using them lol soz! but yeah im going to have to apologize in advance for n e delays on material you give me to translate cuz i most likely im gonna have to balance the exact details about the word and my own latin hw but tehy should coincide because the latin stuff shouldnt be too hard

but thanks for the corrections guys but remember differnent sounds sound different to other people (especially in my head lol)

Also your french is pretty good Pyrgopolynices but then again im used to hearing american accents so it deteriorates my old belgian accent :-(

**Beiss** · November 22, 2006, 02:26 AM

Yeah... I never felt too comfortable with the American accent when in Latin class in the US... heh.

Thanks a lot, Pyrgo. This time the "e" sounded much like long a Swedish e, and more like what I thought you meant the first time.

**Pyrgopolynices** · November 22, 2006, 12:20 PM

@ HellsIronChief: didn't know about the canadian ay pronounce. Very interesting. Is it due to the french influence?

**HellsIronChef** · November 22, 2006, 02:26 PM

i dunno but some canadians always say Eh? so i know this is a bad example but like on South Park the diplomats were all like "Whats all this aboot eh?" and the "eh" has an english -ay sound like "say" and "eh" would rhyme its really strange but my clan leader does that when he gets angry lol

**Csatádi** · December 30, 2006, 04:50 AM

Hungarians aren't Slavs so what the you wanted to link Russian speech?

**Beiss** · December 30, 2006, 06:53 AM

Look - I know Hungarians aren't Slavs, and I'm sure Hungarians feel rather offended by us making them speak Russian, but - in the vanilla version of the game, the Russians, Polish, Hungarians and Danish use the same samples. In this first release, I moved the Danes into the German group because I thought it was better that they spoke German than Russian. As for the Hungarians, I couldn't move them into another group, because then I'd need to make a new sample group. When I got the Spanish samples I managed to make a new sample group, so now I can make the Hungarians not speak Russian, but at the time I added the Russian speech, I didn't know how to do this.

The Hungarians will be moved to another speech group in the next release, and the Russians and Polish will have their own, Russian speechgroup. Which group do you suggest for the Hungarians? Mediterranean, Mongol, or East European?

The next release will be when I've fixed the subtitles and text related stuff for the Spanish. Hopefully I will also have found the Italian and French speech by then.

**Thanat0S** · December 30, 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Beiss

Which group do you suggest for the Hungarians? Mediterranean, Mongol, or East European?

I think that the batter choice is Mongol, even if they are an Uralic Language Group

**Hun Birodalom** · December 30, 2006, 10:43 PM

You must not put Hungarians in the Mongol group!!!!!!!
The Hungarian language is very unique, expert languists cannot catagorize it into one language family. The reason for this is that, the nation of Hungary emerged as an independent people before 2000 B.C. By 1300 B.C. the Egyptians referd to them as a strong nation, called the Magurs (Maggyar is Hungarian in the Hungarian language even today). So with this much history you would think the Hungarian language consists of many other languages. But it doesn't, the Hungarinas always kept their traditions, costums and language. Some other neighbouring languages were able to influence it with some expressions and words,Turks,Huns....etc. The mongols are not even close to the Hungarian language, the Mongol invasion was way too short to even have the slightest effect. If you must put the Hunagarians in the catagories you thought of it would only sound good.

**Beiss** · December 31, 2006, 02:54 AM

Ok, so where to put them? When the mod is finished, the Hungarians will speak medieval Hungarian, and will have their own soundset. But until then, would it be better to put them in the Hollywood Russian English group, the Hollywood Spanish/Italian/Greek group, or the Hollywood Mongol group? Take your pick...

**Thanat0S** · December 31, 2006, 10:02 AM

Today I've bought the Italian version of Medieval 2 Total War.

Beiss, tell me what I have to do! Bye!

**Thanat0S** · December 31, 2006, 02:49 PM

I think that's a better choice to merge the Portuguese with the Spanish accent, because the Portuguese is more similar to Spanish than Italian.

**Beiss** · December 31, 2006, 03:17 PM

Which is what we do, but you can choose to keep them speaking English with an accent, if you dislike the idea of hearing them speak Spanish. They certainly won't be speaking Italian, I promise you that... Anyway, I was just contacted by a guy who will send me the French samples, and who suggested I upload an English soundpack for those who play non-Enligsh versions.

Which I will, of course. Just didn't think about it until now, haha...

**Thanat0S** · January 01, 2007, 12:03 PM

I wanna report another thing:

I think that is better to join Slaves in the Eastern accent group because they belong to the same Russian's Language family.

Besides I think that's better to put the Saxons in the German accent group because they were a German tribe.

Finally, I wanna ask if it's possible to separate the aztecs from the mongols!
Do you image an American Native that spoke the same language of a Mongol Warrior?!