excellent shield wall guys bravo

[RedGuard]

Ragnar Lothbrok would be proud leaving that big ass gap in the middle

[SamueleD]

Shield wall in BI (and M2TW, if you modded it back in) looked more realistic (and bad as ), so, yeah... that's kind of depressing CA.

[Jean=A=Luc]

Ragnar Lothbrok would be proud leaving that big ass gap in the middle

It's a tarp! There are spikes buried in the ground where the gap is so when Mercian cavalry charges into the gap they get impaled.

[Sun Jetzu]

ha, I hate shield wall. feel theres no difference between that and phalanx.

[Friar Chris]

ha, I hate shield wall. feel theres no difference between that and phalanx.

There isn't much, incidentally. In the game files, the stat bonuses that are assigned to the 'Hoplite Wall' (what they renamed 'Hoplite Phalanx' to when they didn't fix it...) are very similar. To compare Shield Wall versus 'Hoplite Wall' in terms of their stat modifiers:


'Hoplite Wall'/Phalanx:

Better bracing (300%)
Better melee defence (150%)
Better shield defence (150%)


Shield Wall:

Worse bracing (200%)
Worse melee defence (115%)
Worst shield defence (125%)
Armour bonus to shield armour (120%)


As for the formations... Well, I suppose the 'Hoplite Wall' isn't half as useless as the formation in the screenshot above...

[Octavius Vatco]

Ragnar Lothbrok would be proud leaving that big ass gap in the middle

Come to think of it, these theuros shields were not meant for shieldwalls. For shieldwall to take effect I think there must be a standard of shield width or diameter like that of the hoplite shield or the viking round shields.

[Friar Chris]

Come to think of it, these theuros shields were not meant for shieldwalls. For shieldwall to take effect I think there must be a standard of shield width or diameter like that of the hoplite shield or the viking round shields.

Indeed, it seems better suited to closer melee combat than to bracing as a wall. I daresay units with different shields should have different shield wall abilities reflecting how well they can brace their row against threats with their shield type, but... CA?...

[Rockapotamus]

There isn't much, incidentally. In the game files, the stat bonuses that are assigned to the 'Hoplite Wall' (what they renamed 'Hoplite Phalanx' to when they didn't fix it...) are very similar. To compare Shield Wall versus 'Hoplite Wall' in terms of their stat modifiers:


'Hoplite Wall'/Phalanx:

Better bracing (300%)
Better melee defence (150%)
Better shield defence (150%)


Shield Wall:

Worse bracing (200%)
Worse melee defence (115%)
Worst shield defence (125%)
Armour bonus to shield armour (120%)


As for the formations... Well, I suppose the 'Hoplite Wall' isn't half as useless as the formation in the screenshot above...

Slightly off topic so feel free to disregard, but...

I keep reading statements about how the phalanx isn't very good. Is this referencing hoplites specifically or is this generalization including units such as the spartan pikemen? Because as far as I can tell, the Spartan Pikemen are unstoppable when "Phalanx" is activated. A proper wall or square or what have you of pikemen can stop endless light and medium infantry and cavalry don't even make a dent.

So why are people trashing on the phalanx? Enlighten me, I'm a newbie in need of educating.

[RedGuard]

Slightly off topic so feel free to disregard, but...

I keep reading statements about how the phalanx isn't very good. Is this referencing hoplites specifically or is this generalization including units such as the spartan pikemen? Because as far as I can tell, the Spartan Pikemen are unstoppable when "Phalanx" is activated. A proper wall or square or what have you of pikemen can stop endless light and medium infantry and cavalry don't even make a dent.

So why are people trashing on the phalanx? Enlighten me, I'm a newbie in need of educating.

the hoplite phalanx is different than the 'macedonian' style phalanx that pikemmen use. Hoplites just use a glorified shieldwall in rome 2

[Garensterz]

The Uncreative Assembly.

[von stoker]

That unit isn't a CA unit, it is a modded unit. So before you start another troll thread, maybe you should get your facts straight first. This is a CA theuros shield wall. No gaps.

[RedGuard]

That unit isn't a CA unit, it is a modded unit. So before you start another troll thread, maybe you should get your facts straight first. This is a CA theuros shield wall. No gaps.

lol did you even look at your own pic? there are huge gaps between the sheilds

another example this time with theuros shields unit 'unmodded' so we can throw that cheap excuse away:

[Pontic Pontus]

A wall can have holes, so a shield wall can have holes as well, maybe that huge gap was caused by artillery.

[von stoker]

I see spacing, not the "big ass gap in the middle" that you so gleefully drew our attention to. Fact is, you started this thread to slag off CA for something that they didn't do. But you don't seem to be getting the point, so I will re-iterate. Get your facts straight before you post.

[RedGuard]

A wall can have holes, so a shield wall can have holes as well, maybe that huge gap was caused by artillery.

not sure if serious or... not funny

I see spacing, not the "big ass gap in the middle" that you so gleefully drew our attention to.

do i really need to draw a arrow to it?

[Friar Chris]

Regardless of how Thureophoroi are normally spaced, can we not agree that when they are put in a specialist shield wall formation, they should close their ranks far more in order to minimise the gaps between their shields?

I'm not saying they should form our conventional idea of a 'phalanx' or even be as well protected as soldiers with the Hoplon would be, but they should make some sort of effort to form up in a close formation and bring their shields together. And I think that's the crux of the problem, here - they just raise their shield and stand in a rather shabby line fully spaced...

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

That wall is for chariots to go through.It is a tactic lol as you envelop the chariot.

[SupAll]

There are gaps in the shield wall in van stoker's image, but that is a much cleaner shield wall than the pos image you put up where the rows aren't even aligned.

How would you even fight in a really tight shield wall with those shields anyways? It would be more of a detriment than anything. Maybe CA should just turn off that ability for units with those times of shields.

[ProtoBo]

How would you even fight in a really tight shield wall with those shields anyways? It would be more of a detriment than anything. Maybe CA should just turn off that ability for units with those times of shields.

In my opnion the shield wall shouldn't be for cases where you want to 'fight'. It should be an extreme defensive solution for denying the enemy access to the ground behind you. I would like to see them pack together and form a literal wall of shields, and generally be less powerful in melee to represent how it could have been hard to attack. The result being that after the clash, neither side is really taking losses. It's would just be a tactical move to get an enemy unit bogged down in a pushing contest so you can focus on doing something else e.g. encirclement.

Oh, and of course you'd need to stop the extremely mobile kill-moves from making troops suddenly break the wall.

[chris10]

This how roman legions (late republic & empire) fought in formation...

from RSII "Five Good Emperors" standalone roman campaign