Protestant Kaiser challenge

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

One unique and little advertised feature of this mod is that you can become a Protestant Emperor, if you are playing a Protestant German faction and you fulfill certain conditions. We have not had a Protestant Emperor yet, so if you have succeeded or if you succeed in the future, post your empire. You will most likely have to handle some very difficult diplomatic issues to become a Protestant Emperor, you may end up losing a few friends and even gain some new enemies. So if you become a Protestant Emperor AND win the campaign by eliminating the Catholic League, you deserve some praise!

[Kaiser Nonsense]

What about Wilhelm II? He was protestant.

And a protestant kaiser deserves to be burnt at stake, not praises.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

As far as we know, no player has yet managed to become a Protestant Emperor by the end of the campaign. It is not easy. AI factions cannot get a Protestant Emperor, so you will probably not have the opportunity to burn one at the stake in your campaign.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

As far as we know, no player has yet managed to become a Protestant Emperor by the end of the campaign. It is not easy. AI factions cannot get a Protestant Emperor, so you will probably not have the opportunity to burn one at the stake in your campaign.

Oh, I thought you were referring to historical things and all! As a challenge, I accept it (even if I hate protestants)! Explain to mir everything how I do to get a protestant kaiser there and I shall carry on the challenge.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Emperors were elected by seven Electors, six from the lands of modern Germany and one from outside. Four were princes and three were bishops. If a Protestant faction controls seven out of possible eight cities, then it can be assumed he could persuade the seven Electors to vote for a candidate of his choice, most likely the faction leader, and so an event comes up - "the Reformation of the Empire".

When this happens, the player must exit the game and click on the Reichsmutation icon, which will open a window that contains the main Protestant factions (Palatinate, Brandeburg-Prussia, Saxony, Wuerttemberg, Hessen, Brunswick), choose his faction and re-start the game. The player has to be connected to the internet, upon which the faction colour will change to white, the flag and coat of arms to the imperial eagle and the faction name will become "German Empire".

There are actually 8 cities out of which only 7 need to be taken, some of which are of course already Protestant, which is where most of the difficulty lies, since the factions that control them may be allied to the human player. It means you have to go a bit further than the basic victory conditions, which for a Protestant faction include eliminating the Catholic League and controlling between 40-60 regions. When the first eligible city is taken, there is a message that the sceptre and crown of Charlemagne is in your hands. however, there are no events for the subsequent 5 cities - i.e. there are only events for the first and the last. I think it was done on purpose to make it a bit more mysterious and tougher as a challenge. The eight cities are not random cities, there is a historic basis for their choice.

The idea was borrowed from TATW, however, it also has a basis in history. When Frederic became king of Bohemia, he had a second vote. Two other Electors were Protestant, so four of the seven votes were now being possessed by Protestant princes, and the possibility that a Protestant might be elected as Emperor of course could not be tolerated - as you would probably agree.

[toluas]

Please allow me a couple of remarks here. Yes, in 1619 there was - theoretically speaking - a protestant majority in the electorate council taking place at Frankfurt. But: it is highly dubious if Frederic of the Palatinate was ever King of Bohemia from a legal perspective. In 1617 the bohemian estates had elected Ferdinand of house Habsburg. Now there is no legal loophole for them to change their mind and elect another king without the old one dying or laying down his crown - both of which is not the case. So, if Frederic could not be elected king, he could not cast the bohemian vote in the election of the emperor.

And it is fair to say that the Protestants really messed up at Frankfurt, because all of them voted for the catholic candidate Ferdinand of Habsburg (yes, the same one whom the Protestants had just tried to vote down in Bohemia!). Brandenburg and Saxony voted for Ferdinand, the newly elected (however shaky his legal standing might be) king of Bohemia did not even try to cast the bohemian vote (which was cast by Ferdinand) and even Frederic's own envoy from the Palatinate voted in favor of Ferdinand. So the protestant majority was just a chimera, apart from not being catholic the Protestants often shared less with each other than with the Catholics.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Of course you are right that a Protestant Emperor was not elected. It is also true that the Protestants were often divided. The Protestant Kaiser challenge is just a game feature, nothing more. However, the potential was there, at some point for it to happen in real history should the majority of votes pass to the Protestant princes, especially if the Bishop-Electors also came under Protestant control in the course of the war.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

I didn't know all of that, my historical knowledge is sparse about that time, however, I knew at principle the Kaiser was to be appointed by the Pope, and later on elected, but I thought that was only till high middle ages or so, because after that, it was a descent line of heritage, no?

Take for example Charlemagne, he became Kaiser by papal appointment, and later on as example, Friedrich Barbarossa was Kaiser, the next on was his son, Heinrich VI.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Monti might explain this better if he drops by, but the Electors were descendants of Charlemagne's sons and the elected Emperors were also descendants of Charlemagne from various branches of the family, who had inherited different lands and titles.

[toluas]

I was aware that you were mainly talking about the game feature, Geoffrey - my argument was directed at a more historical perspective.

During most of the middle ages, a certain amount of electors (mostly at around seven) elected the Roman King. This Roman King had to be crowned by the Pope to be Emperor. (Not all of the Kings were, and some took quite some time to convince the Holy Father to do so.)

After 1356, the seven electors were institutionalized as the Archbishops of Cologne, Mainz and Trier, the Count Palatinate, the Margrave of Brandenburg, the Duke of Saxony and the King of Bohemia. (In 1623 the Palatinate vote was transferred to the Duke of Bavaria. In 1648 the Palatinate vote was reinstated as an eighth vote.)

The electors indeed often picked an Emperor's son over other contenders, but that did happen. (And I seriously doubt that the electors were related to Charlemagne's sons...)

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Ah a Protestant Kaiser to rid the land from Papist filth! Now that would have been a sight to please God!

I wish good luck to anyone who attempts the glorious quest to rid the world of the Man of Rome.

[Moritol]

I am playing as Baden-Durlach, turn 120 something and owning 20 regions. As far as I read, the Reich Mutation Button is just for the flag, I can be any Protestant faction?
Right now my eco is a little cripped due to the army reform, but I think I can achieve the goal. Finally a reason to kill of the "Winterkönig" and his faction for just sitting around and watching me getting attacked by Württemberg and Catholics.

Which regions do I have to own exactly to trigger the event?

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Baden is a nice faction and near the four main Catholic factions, which can be fun. Are you playing on very hard? Diplomacy is difficult on the harder levels and your Protestant friends betray you, which in a sense is what happened to the Palatinate, but still a little too harsh.

There is one event that may help you get back some of your lost allies, if you trigger it. On the other hand, most emperors in history were quite ruthless and if you are going to control enough of Germany and enough of the Electoral seats to sway the vote in your favour, you can imagine you might have to forget niceties.

The Reform event is certainly a thing that will cripple the player's economy. The path to greatness cannot be free from a little bit of stress.

The Reichsmutation button is just for the white colour on the little map in the bottom left hand corner (your empire would normally become white). Because of an oversight due to the fact that Baden and Bayreuth were not in the original version of the mod, they are not fully implemented. So Baden will not get the change to the white colour on the map or the confirmation event of a Protestant Empire. It will get some events talking of a Protestant Empire when you are close to your target. When you have the 7th city, the event called "the Reformation of the Empire" will be triggered and your units will get the white flag with the double headed eagle both on the stratmap and the battle map. Then you will know you got there and, even if you get no official map recognition, you are the Protestant Emperor because you and your flag say so!

Part of the challenge is that the regions are unknown. There is a historical as well as a logical basis for their choice. Think like a shrewed prince who wants to become Kaiser with no objections raised.

[Moritol]

Baden is a nice faction and near the four main Catholic factions, which can be fun. Are you playing on very hard? Diplomacy is difficult on the harder levels and your Protestant friends betray you, which in a sense is what happened to the Palatinate, but still a little too harsh.

I am always playing on vh/vh. The beginning was a tough one, though no allies attacked me. Württemberg might be Protestant, but they were neutral from the start... and now they are extinct.


Regarding the eco, it is already pretty bad when you have 20 territories due to the "Country is bleeding". This is the first mod where I can't rely on trade income. Most of my regions don't have any, I wasted a lot of money in the beginning for upgrading trade. You have to rely on high taxes and farming. If you have captured 32 regions, you won't get any income provided by merchants (at least not without a market event).


This one might belong to the bug section: there is actually no "Jagdschloss" in Baden - no stone fort - just a subtitle which you can assassinate . Also, is there a way to remove the rebels (Familymember + a lot of mercs) from those "Jagdschlösser", maybe a rebel sweap event from time to time for the next release.