Tolkien Legendarium vs P.J. films (discussion)

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

I just noticed this cool fan made trailer for the Silmarillion movie (which may or may not be made after the next hobbit, they're not sure yet)




I thought it was pretty epic and it got me even more excited for this mod! Keep up the good work!

[Infidel144]

Who might make it? Some fans doing a fan movie?
Because Christopher and the Estate will never allow a commercial company to do so.

[Milner]

The movie is very good...

Is there a Silmarillion's film in development?, if yes, i'll hope Peter Jackson be out of it (to don't see a very closed film with Tolkien Legendarium...)

[Infidel144]

Is there a Silmarillion's film in development?, if yes, i'll hope Peter Jackson be out of it (to don't see a very closed film with Tolkien Legendarium...)

No worries on that front. Rights to The Silmarillion were never sold, and Christopher Tolkien would never allow it.

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

The movie is very good...

Is there a Silmarillion's film in development?, if yes, i'll hope Peter Jackson be out of it (to don't see a very closed film with Tolkien Legendarium...)

There are rumors that it's going to happen and there are rumors as to who would direct it, but once again only rumors.

Considering that it's pretty much Middle Earth's bible they would probably have to focus on a specific point (Such as the first great war) so a full adaptation in parts would most likely never occur in our lifetimes unless great strides are made in the film industry.

[NekoGenijalan]

Unless they make series, which is most logical thing for a book like Silmarilion. 10-15 episodes lasting for about 2 hours.

[darkgoku30]

Hello again guys!

(I apologize for the very long post. I started writing and then complaining and went on and on. Now I've written too much to just delete it!)

I agree with both Milner (about Peter Jackson) and NekoGenijalan (about the series).

About Peter Jackson. First let me say that even though he changed several things in the LOTR trilogy that some indeed annoyed me, i was generally pleased by the final result. I thought they were great, epic and they are still in my favourite films of all time.

Peter Jackson has tried to make the Hobbit trilogy to match the LOTR trilogy, more epic and appeal to modern viewers (since The Hobbit was written many years ago and was really a fairytale). In my opinion he has overdone it. He exaggerated with the changes in the story first and foremost completely changing many 'facts' of the journey. Then the blood-baths (especially the second movie during the escape form Thranduil's Halls and inside Dale). WTF! The heroes being chased all over Middle-Earth by Orcs, night AND DAY (first Orcs who could move by day where Saruman's Uruk-hai right?) lead by Azog who in the book was already dead for about 142 years! And in the second movie they catch them twice in places they never met and the heroes are killing them left and right like they are flies or something. Come on! (worst scene, Bombur defeating a dozen Orcs as an out of control bouncing barrel!). Legolas standing and surfing on anything that breathes or was breathing 5 seconds ago while killing everything else... And by being such godlike death-dealers the sense of danger or that they might actually be stopped or killed is completely lost.

Another thing i really missed was the scene where Gandalf 'tricks' Beorn into accepting the company in his house. Instead of that beautiful that's-what-Tolkien-storytelling-was-about scene they are being chased into the house by him (what?) and then he acts like everything is fine (Hey i have 14 armed strangers sleeping in my house after i chased them. Nice! Let them rest. I'll make them breakfast!). Then one would think the passage through Mirkwood that was about 250 miles west to east should have been longer in the movie. We don't get to see them crossing the river and chasing the campfires that go off, or bilbo taunting the spiders. Instead we get 5 minutes in the forest where they get lost and then the spiders. There Bilbo actually takes off the Ring to face the spiders! Little out-of-his-freaking-mind daredevil! Later he becomes a cold-blooded killer by killing a baby spider because it touched the Ring... Sacrilege!

Then the elf-dwarf love story that takes about 5 minutes to escalate to full romance after having a first date outside a prison cell, just seems too fake and made up to me. You know, to set the two blood-baths afterwards. Then Bard being a bargeman instead of a captain is a change but didn't bother me much since i always like the films to be a little rebellious because he is obviously defiant of the Master of Dale. Also the appearance of Legolas and Tauriel by itself didn't bother me cause its natural for them to be there, it's his father's Halls and Tauriel is a captain, maybe we can assume that they were there in the book just not mentioned...

And then Thorin leaving his comrades behind so easy to go to the mountain. Well if he was so determined to open the hidden door how come he was the first to give up when he was right there? And throwing away the key? no comment... But the biggest fail of them all has to be inside Erebor. Amazing Smaug, amazing scene of him emerging from beneath the gold and catching Bilbo. After a few lines from the beautiful, clever dialog in the book it starts falling apart. Bilbo actually takes off the Ring in front of Smaug in the middle of an empty hall! Little out-of-his-freaking-mind daredevil again! And after a while we have a bunch of dwarves running around mocking the Great Smaug and he never catches them or burns them. (How easy they deal with the dragon that destroyed their kingdom and their neighbours single-handedly when they were in full force.) While Smaug is on their tail they somehow manage to make a huge statue of liquid gold and attack Smaug with it! (trying to kill a hot as hell fire-breathing dragon with extreme heat... really??? maybe they were hoping Smaug would lay there taking a relaxing warm bath in molten gold until it froze and became solid again trapping him inside) Complete humiliation of Smaug , the book , and the script writers themselves. And of course when Smaug actually gets the chance to kill them after surviving this attack , he let's them go and do as they please , abandoning the mountain to attack Laketown. At least we have an amazing scene again at the end with him flying towards Laketown.

Don't you always hate it and find it extremely off character when the diabolic, ruthless bad guys spare the good guys' lives, toying with them or keeping them hostage and thus giving them a chance to survive, while the benevolent, kind-hearted good guys always finish off the bad guys in cold blood throughout the entire movie? It gives a Hollywood-American self-righteous bull***t vibe to me...


About NekoGenijalan and making Silmarillion into a series of episodes i agree. Ideally focusing on the details and presenting them on film would probably take that long. But i believe that it would be really difficult and time consuming to create a series of epic episodes (as they should be) this long. And when did any director do just that, presenting a book even an epic one? They all have to add things of their own or change things and i believe (after watching the two hobbit movies) that Christopher will do the right thing not to let the Silmarillion get destroyed on film for profit. Even though i would love nothing more to see movies/episodes of Silmarillion.

[Milner]

Moved all the post not related with the mod itself to a better thread

[Milner]

(I apologize for the very long post. I started writing and then complaining and went on and on. Now I've written too much to just delete it!)

Don't worry, that's not a problem

About Peter Jackson. First let me say that even though he changed several things in the LOTR trilogy that some indeed annoyed me, i was generally pleased by the final result. I thought they were great, epic and they are still in my favourite films of all time.

They are between my favourite films too (modern films, i prefer the oldies), they look very good and are epic films...the only problem is that they are a few far from Tolkien's vision...

Peter Jackson has tried to make the Hobbit trilogy to match the LOTR trilogy, more epic and appeal to modern viewers (since The Hobbit was written many years ago and was really a fairytale). In my opinion he has overdone it.

3 films to a "short story" is too much...

Then the blood-baths (especially the second movie during the escape form Thranduil's Halls and inside Dale). WTF! The heroes being chased all over Middle-Earth by Orcs, night AND DAY (first Orcs who could move by day where Saruman's Uruk-hai right?) lead by Azog who in the book was already dead for about 142 years! And in the second movie they catch them twice in places they never met and the heroes are killing them left and right like they are flies or something.

That's P.J. said of his last trilogy "close to Tolkien's lore"

(worst scene, Bombur defeating a dozen Orcs as an out of control bouncing barrel!)

Bombur seems a clown in practically all scenes that he appears...as Gimli in LotR's trilogy, P.J. convert them in the jesters of his films.

Instead of that beautiful that's-what-Tolkien-storytelling-was-about scene they are being chased into the house by him (what?) and then he acts like everything is fine (Hey i have 14 armed strangers sleeping in my house after i chased them. Nice! Let them rest. I'll make them breakfast!).

I'm agree, in Tolkien's book that scene is very better and longer...
If i did find 14 armed strangers in my home...well, the breakfast...i don't think that any of them may breakfast after a brief "speak"...

There Bilbo actually takes off the Ring to face the spiders! Little out-of-his-freaking-mind daredevil! Later he becomes a cold-blooded killer by killing a baby spider because it touched the Ring... Sacrilege!

After seen in LotR's trilogy things as elves in Helm's Deep, Glorfindel? (oh my god! he's the most epic of Tolkien's heroes), Aragorn with the dead's army and without men joining him (¿?), or Legolas too much overpowered...nothing more may surprise me.

Then the elf-dwarf love story that takes about 5 minutes to escalate to full romance after having a first date outside a prison cell, just seems too fake and made up to me.

To me this is the worst of the film...totally inacurate with Tolkien's lore and a very bad love story (and likes me the love stories, if they are good, of course).

About NekoGenijalan and making Silmarillion into a series of episodes i agree. Ideally focusing on the details and presenting them on film would probably take that long. But i believe that it would be really difficult and time consuming to create a series of epic episodes (as they should be) this long. And when did any director do just that, presenting a book even an epic one? They all have to add things of their own or change things and i believe (after watching the two hobbit movies) that Christopher will do the right thing not to let the Silmarillion get destroyed on film for profit. Even though i would love nothing more to see movies/episodes of Silmarillion.

Hollywood, films productors, money, directors with a great ego (some of them never read a book)...i only hope C. Tolkien never die...or fall in money's dreams.

[NekoGenijalan]

As for series I had something in mind like BBC tends to do. Between hour and a half and two hours, with every story being one episode, or two stories from Silmarilion for episode. For instance one episode would be, Rise and Fall of Gondolin. Practically every chapter in the book is a story on its own. There is only one thing that binds them and its war for Silmarils.

Personally, I wouldn't want P.J or Hollywood to do it. Atmosphere is different in First Age than in Third Age, and they would just commercialize Silmarilion. In my opinion BBC could do that the best way. British actors are one of the best in the world, and BBC definitely has ways of making such production. And they would that in a way that is aesthetically pleasing and lore accurate. Just my opinion.

But I don't think its going to happen in near future.

As for Hobbit, I too missed the scene with Beorn. I really wanted to see that one on film. The movie itself was fun, it was a nice day to go out with family and we all had a nice time. For me that was the point of the movie. I can always read the book.

Third part is going to be epic. You know the entire five armies battle and everything... Lets hope that Bilbo won't pass out again

[Milner]

Personally, I wouldn't want P.J or Hollywood to do it. Atmosphere is different in First Age than in Third Age, and they would just commercialize Silmarilion. In my opinion BBC could do that the best way. British actors are one of the best in the world, and BBC definitely has ways of making such production. And they would that in a way that is aesthetically pleasing and lore accurate. Just my opinion.

I'm agree, BBC's productions and british actors have a better quality than Hollywood's ones...

Third part is going to be epic. You know the entire five armies battle and everything... Lets hope that Bilbo won't pass out again

Let's hope...

[darkgoku30]

Hi guys! been a few days since i last checked the forum. I'm surprised! I didn't think anyone would take the time to read AND reply to my huge post!

I hope the third part is going to be epic too. It deserves to be epic because the battle with Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies will be in it. I'm guessing about half of the film will be fighting scenes!

Because of this possibility of having so much action in the third film PJ should have filmed more lore-accurate and less action-packed scenes in the first two parts, that's my opinion. It could have offered more depth in the characters of the trilogy too.

Bilbo not passing out again... Well that's an idea. And PJ-like too! What do you guys think, is he going to pass out during battle or will PJ have him in there swinging Sting and cutting down anything that moves? Sounds like PJ...

[Milner]

I'm surprised! I didn't think anyone would take the time to read AND reply to my huge post!

Why are you surprised?

I hope the third part is going to be epic too. It deserves to be epic because the battle with Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies will be in it. I'm guessing about half of the film will be fighting scenes!

I'll wait anything...the book is near the end, and 2 or 3 hours of a new film seems too much time...

Bilbo not passing out again... Well that's an idea. And PJ-like too! What do you guys think, is he going to pass out during battle or will PJ have him in there swinging Sting and cutting down anything that moves? Sounds like PJ...

My opinion...he's going to pass out again, as a savage beast..."P.J.'s style/trademark" . Don't hope anything closed to Tolkien's lore...it's not something that gives too much money to these guys.

[Algaman]

hey there, guys.
Rumors are rumors but I guess what I heard can be true.
A facebook online radio program, said that Peter Jackson has in mind to film Some Silmarillion Chapters, he wanted to start With Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin and The Legend of Turin Turambar, among others.
I really don´t know how much of this is true, but I will be glad If even some chapters of The Silmarillion can be filmed.
So....

[Jagmodo]

Those are only rumours and wishful thinking. As long as Christopher Tolkien is alive it won’t happen.
Probably for the best...

[Milner]

I would like to see some Silmarillion's chapters filmed too (specially The Fall of Gondolin), but with P.J. as director...i think he'll kill the spirit of the books, as he did made (and are making actually) in the past with the first trilogy.
Long live to Christopher Tolkien!! (to he don't leave P.J. make more sacrilegious with his father's legacy).

[Nelduin]

On that matter, maybe some of you don't know the interview Christopher Tolkien gave to french newspaper Le Monde almost two years ago: http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/articl...9858_3246.html.

I found it very interesting. It's in French, but I'm sure you can find a translation online if needed . I have an intensified respect for J.R.R and his son.

[Lt.-Col. Dan]

Well, I don't know about other countries, but the romanian editition of Silmarillion had a letter of J.R.R. Tolkien, in which he said that the story of Beren and Luthien could be told and listened with only vague knowledge of the general context...so maybe this would make a good movie. Also, the Children of Hurin could be turned into a movie too...
@Milner

I would like to see some Silmarillion's chapters filmed too (specially The Fall of Gondolin),

I agree with you So, a new trilogy, maybe?

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

I agree with you So, a new trilogy, maybe?

NO.

[Milner]

I agree with you So, a new trilogy, maybe?

It depends of how the realase will be, if it'll be as PJ's trilogies i agree with Feanaro...NO, please! We don't need comercial films (full of action and with the screenplay makers on hollidays) to imagine all the things that we like of Tolkien Legacy, that's the true to me, sadly (and happy at once, because my imagination stay close with the things that i read in a book, of Tolkien or any other author).