...total war

[mapache]

I know that the AI is a little broken but I'm not sure what the deal is with my campaigns. Around turn 150 everyone declares war on me. First on my Pontus campaign i took all of turkey and greece and almost italy then everyone around me declared war. Then same on my Rome campaign, I had all of the west taken except far north, and I thought "wow that is bad luck" after i was at war with most of the remaining factions. Now this time I'm playing as Egypt and I took most of north africa and almost all of the arabian areas but now just like previous campaigns people are declaring war on me for no reason. By the way as Egypt I haven't broken any agreements or treaties, all of my expansion has been done from defensive wars...Why does this happen around the 150 turn mark? is there anything I can do? it seems like it was just getting good at this point...

[geyserik]

I'm not sure but I will say that ever since patch 8 everybody hates me pretty much all time.In earlier campaigns I could get trade agreements and defensive pacts that would last the entire campaign,This of course has ruined the diplomacy in this game altogether.I like the ai being more aggressive but the way it is now breaks the immersion of the campaign.

[DeliCiousTZM]

You get expansionist by expanding to much and too fast(Usually it is unavoidable) That is why people hate you. If you work maintain relationships and improve upon them with the factions it won't be to bad, however that is a preemtptive strategy not something that works after everyone already hates you.

[prithupaul]

It could be that there is something messy with patch 8. In my latest campaign, ever since patch 8 my reputation has been stuck at "unreliable" despite me not putting a single foot wrong. Most of my allies have broken the alliance, trade-partners have stopped trading for no apparent reason despite having 100+ relation in some cases. And this happened just before I was about to get an economic victory (which was my goal in this particular campaign).

<rant>Afterwards I waited for a few turns, kept my new-found enemies alive just so I can force them to form trade agreements, even made some of my settlements revolt by raiding, then subjugated them to form new satrapies, all to no avail since they simply refuse to form trade agreements at any condiction. Truly felt like the AI was simply preventing me from getting the economic victory. Then I just got pissed and conquered and razed everything. Another military victory. </rant>

So I think, your case, dear mapache, is just a random case of AI freak out. It may not happen if you start a new campaign and proceed exactly in the same way. Otherwise it may be caused by some patch 8 diplomacy bug.

[Turbo]

Making the Ai players hate you more has been a traditional response to complaints about the poor AI logic. A pile on makes the game more difficult but doesn't do anything to improve the AI.

[prithupaul]

Making the Ai players hate you more has been a traditional response to complaints about the poor AI logic. A pile on makes the game more difficult but doesn't do anything to improve the AI.

So very true sire. Superficiality has always been CA's approach to problems. Its ridiculous that you have to give the AI insane bonuses to have fun in the game.

[totalwar_legend]

So very true sire. Superficiality has always been CA's approach to problems. Its ridiculous that you have to give the AI insane bonuses to have fun in the game.

As opposed to Starcraft II, where on brutal difficulties the AI get insane bonuses as well.

You people need to understand that AI is not on par with human intelligence, nor is it likely to be so for a very long time. And your complaints about the bonuses on harder difficulty are unreasonable. Get over it, all games with difficulty settings do this. Even on Medieval 1 the AI got bonuses on harder difficulties.

Also, I was playing EU IV. The exact same thing happens if you expand too much. Everyone hates you and declares war on you at the same time. And guess what, the AI have combat bonuses on harder difficulties because they're not smart enough to outwit you. (edit: not smart enough to outwit most people.)

So in this regard Rome II is no different than any other strategy game.

And finally, if you don't want the AI to have bonuses then play on NORMAL DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!!! (Complains the game is too easy - puts on harder difficulty - complains the AI get bonuses - face palm)

I'm too face-palmed out right now to continue on this forum for a while.

[kerrfox]

I just completed a campaign that I started post-Patch 8.1 Beta at Normal difficulty level vanilla and did not have all of the factions declare war on me, kept my trade partners, etc. My next campaign will be on Hard difficulty with a mod; perhaps things will be very different under these circumstances?

[Blaze of Macedon]

Nobody's asking for the AI to "outwit you", but decently deploy it's ladders and towers on your wall and pressure your troops on multiple points during a siege. That's all.


TBH, i'm playing 1.7 and diplomacy has been the only + point for this game until now. Everyone not declaring on me randomly is great. If we get + 500 reationship and i am 10 times the size of my vassal then it doesn't make sense for the AI to declare! Now i have meaningful alliances with strategic partners around my empire

[Makrell]

Making the Ai players hate you more has been a traditional response to complaints about the poor AI logic. A pile on makes the game more difficult but doesn't do anything to improve the AI.

I so much agree, its the reason i often refer vanilla over mods, mods where they give you a challenge by giving ai bonuses and worse relations. I see CA has learned from mods, but not what i would want them to learn.

[Archesel]

And finally, if you don't want the AI to have bonuses then play on NORMAL DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!!!

You're totally right: if you play on harder difficulties, the game becomes unrealistic as in battles, enemy levies are a challenge for your professional troops while on the campaign map, economic bonuses allows them to spam armies and agents then makes your attempts to cripple their economy useless.

On Roma Surrectum II, playing on Normal battle difficulty was even a need for who didn't want his battles to last forever.

So IMO, the game can be still challenging on Normal if you choose a weak starting faction (for example one that can be unlocked by a mod) and/or aim at personal, special objectives.

[prithupaul]

As opposed to Starcraft II, where on brutal difficulties the AI get insane bonuses as well. You people need to understand that AI is not on par with human intelligence, nor is it likely to be so for a very long time. And your complaints about the bonuses on harder difficulty are unreasonable.

Who is talking about difficulty? Did I mention difficulty? You did not read what I wrote did you? Its not fun when in any difficulty AI keeps abandoning its cities in the face of invasion, or keeping its armies sailing in the middle of nowhere, or screwing up its building policies living its armies starving half the time. Since CA is unable to optimize AI behavior, we are forced to give extra income, extra food, research bonus via modding or difficulty etc so to neutralize its stupidity.

Also, I was playing EU IV. The exact same thing happens if you expand too much. Everyone hates you and declares war on you at the same time. And guess what, the AI have combat bonuses on harder difficulties because they're not smart enough to outwit you. (edit: not smart enough to outwit most people.)

The point is, the game, like EU, should give a "normal" challenge on normal difficulty. Normal =! easy. And as people have pointed out, easy difficulty, or any difficulty does not excuse nonsensical AI behavior. Cant believe I had to explain that to the 'legend'. I am actually your subscriber you know!

[roarer]

Well... seems like I am having a very different experience from you guys. This is my campaign after patch 8. I played as Epirus on VH/VH without any mods and I got Athens, Sparta, Rome & Syracuse to declare war on me in the first few turns. I got a trade agreement with Macedon soon, and then with Ardiaei, which is friendly to Macedon ( North of me ). Since Syracuse declare war on Carthage, we got common enemy and I got trade agreements out of Carthage and soon its client states.

Later, in order to destroy Carthage, Syracuse befriend most of the African tribes while I was still dealing with Athens and Sparta. Syracuse and one the Africans conquer every Carthagian city in Africa while Rome pushed Etruscan league to nothing more than an island. Once, I encountered the Etruscan, I proposed non-aggression pact and trade agreements, which they accepted. After Carthage is left weak and vulnerable with its settlements in modern day Spain, it proposed an alliance with me which I gladly accepted. This made all Africans and most Celtic-iberian tribes hate me. I could not broker any peace treaties or trade agreements with them while I made a couple trade agreements with Rhodos, Pergamon, Pontus etc(hope I spelled them right). In order to honor my alliance, I declared war on two of the Africans tribes when they join in to destroy Carthage. No peace / trade / non-agression pact is possible with them but I can actually can make non-aggression pact with celtic & German tribes and I also made alliance with Rhodos and Bithynia (once I declared war on their common enemy - Seleucids).

The most unexpected thing is that I cannot make anyone my client states (through diplomatic terms) UNTIL I have only one enemy states left. My last African enemy signed a peace treaty with me and became my client states. Afterward, I am at war with no one. To my surprise, Trapezos is willing to become my client states once Cimmera declared war on them. Even more surprisingly, Egypt is willing to become my client states when it has at least 2 provinces =0=.

My reputation is Steadfast throughout the campaign. I occupy every region I conquered. Regarding prisoners captured, I enslave some, free most Greek enemies while always killing Romans. To me, diplomacy is absolutely fine (as long as you are having good reputation). I am only at turn 80 something now, so I cannot comment on your turn 150 trigger. I am only expanding quickly by taking regions from Rome and Syracuse. I am not sure if this plays a role in the calculation of "expansionist". To me, the AI factions also have a tendency to gank on you when you are already at war with a dozen factions.

OP mentioned AI declared war on him for no reasons, could you specified the relationship with those AI before they declared war? Are you attacking their friends? What is your reputation when you were declared war? To me, R2TW 's diplomacy is the most interactive one in the whole series. Especially the willingness to become a client states depending on faction power balance, current situation & number of enemies of potential parent states is beyond my expectations. Diplomacy is also working logically & dynamically in my new Seleucid campaign! I think the OP has to provide more information before we can judge your experience 0.0

It is also pretty interesting that AI will deny you economic victory if you are close to reaching that. Not a bad thing as long as there is a solution, right?

[prithupaul]

...

This campaign of mine started before patch 8. So may be the stuck reputation problem in my case was because of some save game incompatibility. But even in your case, things were a bit random. Further, you also had to set the difficulty on VH, ie deliberately unbalance the game to be able to enjoy.

But I dont think that AI denying me economic victory was interesting, or proper. The AI is not supposed to know or care about me getting some in-game economic victory, let alone exhibit hive-mind behavior across multiple factions. I think it was just more randomness. Further ahead in the same campaign, Pontus, a defensive ally of mine had full control of Armenia, which was my last remaining objective for military victory. Up until now they had rejected all my diplomatic overtures, all supported with massive amount of gold, for a military alliance despite 300+ relationship points. Then suddenly they offered me military alliance, and I got my victory. I verified, nothing had changed. My reputation was still "unreliable", and the relationship with Pontus was still the same. It was just random.

[vonsteimel]

What does your status say under the diplomacy map?

Are you treacherous.etc?

[Destraex]

As opposed to Starcraft II, where on brutal difficulties the AI get insane bonuses as well.

You people need to understand that AI is not on par with human intelligence, nor is it likely to be so for a very long time. And your complaints about the bonuses on harder difficulty are unreasonable. Get over it, all games with difficulty settings do this. Even on Medieval 1 the AI got bonuses on harder difficulties.

Also, I was playing EU IV. The exact same thing happens if you expand too much. Everyone hates you and declares war on you at the same time. And guess what, the AI have combat bonuses on harder difficulties because they're not smart enough to outwit you. (edit: not smart enough to outwit most people.)

So in this regard Rome II is no different than any other strategy game.

And finally, if you don't want the AI to have bonuses then play on NORMAL DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!!! (Complains the game is too easy - puts on harder difficulty - complains the AI get bonuses - face palm)

I'm too face-palmed out right now to continue on this forum for a while.

Why do I need to understand this if CA said the AI is better and improved?

[Cyclops]

...

Also, I was playing EU IV. The exact same thing happens if you expand too much. Everyone hates you and declares war on you at the same time. And guess what, the AI have combat bonuses on harder difficulties because they're not smart enough to outwit you. (edit: not smart enough to outwit most people.)....

Interesting point, that EU has CAI that reacts to your behaviour logically. If you expand onto their turf they hate you, if you treat them well you're actually likely to have historically plausible alliances for decades.

R2TW CAI is still broken and I'm still waiting for this Beta release to be patched into an actual finished game.

[SOF]

Also, I was playing EU IV. The exact same thing happens if you expand too much. Everyone hates you and declares war on you at the same time.

Honestly that is a bit disingenuous. EU series games diplomacy and the way the AI works is far more complex and much more reasonable than any Total War, being that diplomacy, economics, and tech are a far more important and well developed part of the game than in Total War which campaign serves as a vehicle for impressive battles. In the AI disliking or warring with you often has just cause either through some sort of normal Casus Belli which sound diplomatic strategy can placate. Sure if you are into the sort of 'turning the map your color' game and get too high infamy everyone can declare war on you but you never have the problem of impotent non adjacent single province factions half-way across the map declaring war on you problem anywhere near as high as in the newer TW installments.

[libal44]

Comparing EU's AI to TW's...As if ever. I hope CA will sell Total War to Paradox and they make EU:Total war. Now that would be awesome

[Pontic Pontus]

In my games there is always a massive alliance, which is friendly to me but which I have to defeat to win the game. Right now im playing as Etruscans, and there's a massive Alliance between a Pontic, a Ptolemaic and a Spartan empire which hold like 37 settlements, while I only own 22, all this on hard difficulty. I'm using Divide et empira mod, which gives egypt, seleucids and Carthage big empires at the start. Theres also four barbarian empires in my game, suebi, boii, nervii and iceni.