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Thread: Hotseat Rules Compendum

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    Default Hotseat Rules Compendum

    Hotseat Rules Compendum (HRC).

    This thread will attempt to summarize rules commonly used in hotseats.

    Rules try to make the game a more enjoyable and fair experience for the players. For ease of reading the rules will be divided in subtopics.

    The rules were picked specifically with Westeros Total War (WTW) en Third Age Total War (TATW) hotseating in mind, but may apply to other hotseat subforums.

    That said, these rules might not be adequate for all hotseats. Furthermore rules are often dependant on democratic choice by the specific hotseat participants.

    You can refer to this ruleset when using this compendum for your own HS thread.


    Possible additions and critics are welcome!


    ____________________________________________________________________

    Admin
    - The admin has the final word. It is almost impossible to list all possible violations. Use common sence and preferable ask the admin's opinion on a suspected move beforehand. If disagreement with the admin arrises, you are free to ask the opinion of other known admins (such as Aldor, Dux, Emperor of Hell, Matto16, ...)
    - The admin is not responsible for any other hotseat tasks such as searching new members or subbing. He can provide help in these areas, but is not oblidged to do so.
    - The admin can declare the final winner of the hotseat (see gamplay section)

    Agents
    - No assassinations or sabotage. No recruiting of assassins allowed.
    OR
    - No assassinations or sabotage. Recruiting of assassins allowed as spying units.
    OR
    - Assassinations or sabotage allowed to kill agents, minimum chance required: 35%.
    OR
    - Assassinations or sabotage allowed to kill agents, minimum chance required: 35% and family members, minimum chance required: 45%.

    - No spies to open gates.
    OR
    - Spies can open gates, minimum chance required for opening the gates: 35%.
    OR
    -
    Spies can open gates if settlement is defended by less than 6 full units. (adapted from Matto16)

    - No bribing.
    OR
    - Bribing allowed.

    - Indirectly breaking sieges or port blockades by alliance with factions allied to the enemy faction (turning them neutral) not allowed.
    OR
    - Indirectly breaking sieges or port blockades by alliance with factions allied to the enemy faction (turning them neutral) allowed.

    - Stealing generals not allowed
    OR
    - Minimum chance to steal general: 35%

    - Spies aren't allowed to spread plague, unless needed to open the gates in a succesfull siege during the same turn of infiltration.

    - Merchants can seize other merchants, minimum chance required: 50%. (adapted from Mithridate)

    - Merchant stacks not allowed (placing several merchants in an army or fort/military-unit securing a resource). (adapted from Mithridate)

    - You cannot kill agents by surrounding them with troops, unless this move was needed for other purposes.

    AI factions
    - No allying Pope. (adapted from Mithridate)
    - No gifting provinces in war zone
    (regions sharing a land border with an enemy faction) to an AI-controlled faction. (adapted from Mithridate)
    - Not allowed to turn AI factions into vassals. (adapted from Mithridate)
    - No money gain allowed through diplomacy
    with AI factions. (adapted from Mithridate)
    - Minimum chances and restrictions of agents do not apply to actions against AI factions.

    Battles
    - All battles are auto-resolved.
    OR
    - Battles against Rebels allowed to be fought.

    - No surrounding of an army solely to deny a retreat.
    - You are not allowed to move armies next turn if they were defeated by a player that comes after you in turn order.
    - You are not allowed to disband units to get around the previous rule.
    - Prisoners cannot be ransomed after battle. Release or execute.
    - Luring ambushers into ZoC of forts\settlement solely to deny them movement is forbidden. (adapted from Uriyaca)
    - Heroic victories are not allowed, unless a clear victory cannot be obtained and admin approval is given.
    - No usage of various movement bugs allowed. (adapted from Mithridate)
    - The admin must be able to get a similar outcome after 'reloading' 5 times. (adapted from Emperor of Hell)
    Spoiler for Extra information concerning this rule by Aldor

    Tell the admin how you placed your men and other changes in the turn that may have contibuted to your win. The admin will execute the moves the player did to win the battle and reload up to 5 times. (adapted from The Norseman)

    To put it short: reloading is allowed but don't reload endlessly to win a battle as this will be discovered. The admin has the last word on the decision (example: victory due to a bug is never allowed) and punishment.

    Some guidelines that might aid you to judge your actions before you post the turn. These are not rules:
    - Heroic victories are generally due to reloading.
    - Victories with odds less then 3 vs 5 are generally due to reloading.
    - If the outcome seems unlikely, reload the turn yourself and observe if you can win the battle within 5 reloads.
    - Screenshot required for all battles displaying odds (pre-battle screen) and outcome (post battle screen).
    Spoiler for Example
    OotMM army defeated near Imladris.

    - No screenshot required for battles with overwhelming odds, however mentioning the battle in post is required.
    Spoiler for Example
    Gondor army defeated near Minas Tirith, overwhelming odds.
    Crusades/Jihads/Invasions
    - Not allowed
    OR
    - Allowed:
    - Only the target settlement can be sieged.
    - Only one stack per faction can participate.
    - Armies, fleets or forts can not be attacked unless they defend the path towards the settlement.

    Destroying buildings
    - You can destroy buildings in your 'own settlements'.
    - Buildings cannot be destroyed after capturing a settlement. After 5 turns, you are allowed to destroy inns, religious buildings and guilds. After 10 turns these settlements are considered 'own settlements'.
    - Buildings cannot be destroyed when a clearly superior army is in the one range from the settlement.
    - Buildings cannot be destroyed when the settlement is under siege.
    - Buildings can be destroyed in 'own settlements' without restriction on turn 1. (adapted from Uriyaca)

    Dying factions

    - Not allowed to give or accept territory or funds belonging to a dying faction without the dying faction clearly seeking benefit from this.

    Etiquette

    - Reloading allowed to certain extent, see battle-section.
    - 24h to play your turn, though you may ask for an extension (usually 48h) or someone to sub.
    - Visitor message for the next player, when you upload the turn. Use private message instead if requested by the player.
    - Raging against participants cannot be tolerated. Use in-game faction name and be polite.
    - Delete old attachments to lower the burden on the site (My Account > Miscellaneous > Attachments). Keep the previous 3 turns you've played in case a replay would be needed.
    - Betrayals are allowed.

    Exterminating cities
    - No extermination allowed. (adapted from Dux)
    OR
    - You are only allowed to exterminate a city once, and should you capture the city again you must either sack or occupy it.

    Family members
    - Kill family member bug not allowed.
    OR
    - Kill family member bug allowed.
    Spoiler for Kill family member bug
    Put the family member in a stack with zero movement points left. The family member can not be the leader of the stack. Next, go to the 'army' tab and select the general. Move him to a tile and he will be automatically killed.
    Forting and watchtowers
    - Player-made (non-permanent) forts require a minimal garrisson of 4 units.

    - No fort ammount limitations
    OR
    - Maximum of 4 forts per player per region.

    - Watchtowers not allowed
    OR
    - Watchtowers allowed
    - Not allowed to place watchtowers to prevent forting. (adapted from Uriyaca)

    - Rules for sieges apply
    - Not allowed to to lure the attacker into the fort by disband/suicide sally to set up a trap.
    -
    Not allowed to besiege a fort solely to deny the besieged army from participating in battles (with enemy forces next to the fort).
    - Not allowed to sally from forts (except for sieges lasting longer then 1 turn) unless victory or draw is achieved.
    - Allowed to disband troops
    OR
    - Variations on (not) allowing suicidal sallies and disbanding possible.

    - No repeated attacks on 'yoyo/fort buged armies'. You can see when this bug accures, as the enemy army enters the fort and then leaves it. (adapted from Uriyaca)
    Spoiler for yoyo/fort buged armies
    A defeated army whom CAN fit a fort, enters it, and then leaves it, making it posssible for the enemy to attack again and again until nothing remains of that army
    What is supposed to happen is the defeated army who can fit the fort, enters it and stays there. Making it impossible for the enemy to attack again and again

    Why it happens: a retreated army, and you can test it yourself, will never retreat to one of an enemy's ZoC squares. Because of this, when this situation happens (example):
    A lannister army is adjacent to a fort. An enemy army (Stark for example) lands on one of the fort's ZoC squares, and then attacks the Lannister army. The lannister army retreats to the nearest safe location, like the AI always does. He attempts to retreat to the fort
    He reaches the fort and enters it. But a problem- the retreating army is adjacent to the Stark's army ZoC square. The Lannister army is forced to leave the fort and pops up beside it. This bug happens only in forts, not in towns\castles (from Uriyaca)
    Gifting settlements
    - Gifting settlements is allowed, but spawned troops must be disbanded except for one unit. This unit cannot move the turn of accepting the gifted settlement.
    - You cannot gift settlements that are at risk to be captured.

    Naval
    - Ships cannot be attacked in ports.
    - Ships in ports cannot contain land troops.
    - Ships cannot leave a blockaded port until the blockade is broken. This counts for both naval and land blockades.
    - Demolishing a port to get around the previous rule isn't allowed, you must wait until the following turn before moving ships stationed in the blockaded port.
    - Not allowed to bypass an enemy zone of control with land armies by using fleet bug. (adapted from Uriyaca)

    Replaying turns
    - Original moves must be kept when replaying turns, especially if they involve battles versus other players. The factions which were the reason of the replay, can move forces involved freely, but other battles must be done as in the original save.

    Screenshots
    - Not required
    OR
    - Screenshot required for all battles displaying odds (pre-battle screen) and outcome (post battle screen). Depiction of the involved armies and their banners is obligatory in most hotseats. (adapted from Dux and Mithridate)
    Spoiler for Example
    OotMM army defeated near Imladris.

    Spoiler for Involved armies and their banners (if the HS demands this)
    Renly armies attack the besieging Tyrell forces.

    - No screenshot required for battles with overwhelming odds, however mentioning the battle in post is required.
    Spoiler for Example
    Gondor army defeated near Minas Tirith, overwhelming odds.

    - Screenshots required for princess stealing generals, bribing, assassination, sabotage and gate-opening.

    Sieges
    - You cannot sally out when facing certain defeat for any reason such as denying the attacker the option to sack/exterminate or luring him/her in a trap.

    - You cannot besiege a settlement solely to deny the besieged army from participating in battles (with enemy forces next to the settlement).
    - Sieging with a clearly inferior force (such as to deny trade/recruitment/...) is forbidden.


    Victory conditions
    - Play to win.
    - Victor is declared by a voting system (overrulable to some extent by the admin)
    Spoiler for Extra info on this topic:
    A player can attempt to claim victory by demanding a voting round. The admin can, however, decide to continue the HS and deny the attempt.

    Vote question: Do you agree that player X has become unbeatable and should be recognised as winner of this hotseat?

    Vote scenario's:
    - All players give a positive vote: victory!
    - At least 3 players deny victory: no victory.
    - Only 1-2 players deny victory: admin looks into the save/arguments sent per PM and determine if a(n) faction(s) could be considered a threat to the 'victor'. So basicly: if all factions on the map would unite versus the victor, do they stand a chance? If negative: victory!
    In case of victory, reputation and congratulations to the victor!
    ____________________________________________________________________

    Author
    Aldor

    Contributors:
    Dux
    Emperor of Hell
    Gimli10

    Inarus

    Matto16
    Mithridate
    The Norseman
    Uriyaca

    Other useful information:
    Spoiler for How-to-play-a-hotseat-guide by Gimli10

    Instructions (how to play a hotseat campign)
    For those who don't know how to play Hotseat campaigns, here are some easy to follow instructions.
    1. Wait your turn -- Just like waiting in line for a ride at an amusement park, everyone needs to wait their turn, be sure to look who's turn is up, but keeping your eyes on the forums, for your kingdom to be called next.
    2. Download your turn -- When your turn is finally up. It's time to play. the person who was before you should have posted his turn in the thread, you need to click the link in the thread and this should automatically download the turn.
    here is an example

    3. Extract the file into Save Folder -- Alright, the next step is too uncompressed the folder, if you have a compressing tool (Winzip, WinRar, 7zip, etc), then it should automatically uncompressed the file when you Open, or double click on the file you saved. If you do not have a Compressor tool I suggest downloading WinZip. In the compressed filed you should see a new file ending with .sav ; this is the save file -- Extract this file into your Save Folder (in the case of TATW it should be located at C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\saves.
    Here is an example of how to Extract

    4. Play your turn -- Now that the .sav file is successfully located in the Save Folder, you can play your turn. Load up the game like you normally would, (In this case the Third Age Mod). at the Introduction screen, with the options you will want to click on the Load Game --> Load campaign game --> (The save file you downloaded and extracted). If all goes well you should load up the Game. Yay!!, Now have fun, and play your turn. Don't forget to choose a Password, to ensure nobody else access your game.

    5. End Turn -- Don't forget to click the "End Turn" button when your done your turn. Many new people forget to do this simple action of not click End Turn, its essential when your done playing your turn to click End Turn and have the next players Scroll up before you continue. If you forget to do this the game will stall and you will need to load the turn you posted and Press End Turn. Just don't forget

    6. Send and Compress file -- Alright, your almost done!. You played your turn, now you need to send the .sav along. Go to the thread and post a reply.Clicking the "Manage Attachments" on the reply below Additional Options is what you want to do, Then click on one of the "Browse" buttons. Now you need to attach your new .sav file which you should find at your Save folder, do you remember where that was? mine is : (C:\Program Filesx86\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\saves). Now before you sand the .sav file remember to Compress it. Unfortunately, TWCenter doesn't accept files that aren't compressed due to virus possibilities. That's why its essential to have a compressor tool to extract and compress your file. If you need a Compressor tool please refer to Step 3. Now "Right-Click" on your .sav file that you want to send and find the Compressor tool labeled "add to "(filename).rar" or if using winzip you should go to Label "Send to --> compressed Zip folder". Once this is done, a new compressed file should be created in your save folder. While its possible to compress the folder by simply using explorer, you can also do it through the "Browse" button through clicking the "Manage Attachments". Now that you have compressed the .sav file you want to send into a Zipped or Rared file, you can "Click" that compressed file. Then in the "Manage Attachments" screen click on "Upload", write a normal response and your as good as done.
    Spoiler for Hotseat strategy guide for new players by Dux and Mithridate
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Made for Westeros, but useful to read for beginners. "I would really like to recommend this post and the second and 4th in the same thread."
    Spoiler for Gaming Staff Admin Guide by Dux
    Spoiler for Hotseat Constitution\Rules Discussion and known bugs by Uriyaca
    Spoiler for Regarding Hotseats and Attachments by Inarus
    Last edited by Aldor; January 04, 2014 at 07:01 PM.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Reserved.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    If this work is considered useful, it might be handy to give it a sticky and add a link in the various HS subforums.

    Please comment below. Mention subtopic and (new) rule / rule change.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Very nice work! Although, I did not know i was a contributor^^
    That can be easily rectified:

    Odds and victory screens, not showing the involved armies and their banners is the exception. Not the other way around, its just that GS have not "clanked down" upon all the sloppy new people^^ ( unfinished post, i shall return later! )

    Again, great job!
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    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Good work.

    As what Mith said, it is custom in Westeros hotseats and Main area hotseats to show screenshots of the positioning of the armies and their banners involved in the battle. This also makes it easier for the admin to check the battle result.
    Also, add the no extermination rule, I find it quite common in SS hotseats.

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    Very nice work! Although, I did not know i was a contributor^^
    That can be easily rectified:

    Odds and victory screens, not showing the involved armies and their banners is the exception. Not the other way around, its just that GS have not "clanked down" upon all the sloppy new people^^ ( unfinished post, i shall return later! )

    Again, great job!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Good work.

    As what Mith said, it is custom in Westeros hotseats and Main area hotseats to show screenshots of the positioning of the armies and their banners involved in the battle. This also makes it easier for the admin to check the battle result.
    Also, add the no extermination rule, I find it quite common in SS hotseats.
    Added along with an example.

    Added

    Thanks for the positive reception and keep commenting.

    ________________

    Added new rules:

    - Spies aren't allowed to spread plague, unless needed to open the gates in a succesfull siege during the same turn of infiltration.

    - Merchants can seize other merchants, minimum chance required: 50%. (adapted from Mithridate)

    - Merchant stacks not allowed (placing several merchants in an army or fort/military-unit securing a resource). (adapted from Mithridate)

    - Heroic victories are not allowed, unless a clear victory cannot be obtained and admin approval is given. -No allying Pope (adapted from Mithridate)

    -No gifting provinces in war zone
    (regions sharing a land border with an enemy faction) to an AI-controlled faction. (adapted from Mithridate)

    - Not allowed to turn AI factions into vassals. (adapted from Mithridate)

    - No money gain allowed through diplomacy
    with AI factions. (adapted from Mithridate)


    - Minimum chances and restrictions of agents do not apply to actions against AI factions.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    It`s in spanish

    http://hmtw2.foroactivo.com/t3-regla...s-las-campanas


    We do allow reloading. You can't avoid it. You can never play a battle "as in the original save" after you have moved any single unit.

    Good job!
    Spanish Medieval II TotalWar Hotseat Site: http://hmtw2.foroactivo.com/

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    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by [CeltÝbero]Mencey View Post
    It`s in spanish

    http://hmtw2.foroactivo.com/t3-regla...s-las-campanas


    We do allow reloading. You can't avoid it. You can never play a battle "as in the original save" after you have moved any single unit.

    Good job!
    Yes reloading is allowed but you can put an limit on it by having the admin try suspected battles 5 times (with different seeds).

    As pointed out in battle section --> The admin must be able to get a similar outcome after 'reloading' 5 times. --> spoiler

    Looks like a very nice thread by the way, but my Spanish isn't good enough to understand it all.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    We already have a rules thread. As I promised Dux, it will be sticked as soon as I finish my edits to it.

    Also, some of your rules are childish. You cannot enforce how a person replays his turn. Do you even know when, how, or why we started allowed reloading? Also, "requiring" an admin to duplicate results in 5 replays What a lazy admin!! And crediting people who told you about a rule that was in existence before they (or you) started playing does not make them it's creator.
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
    We already have a rules thread. As I promised Dux, it will be sticked as soon as I finish my edits to it.

    Also, some of your rules are childish. You cannot enforce how a person replays his turn. Do you even know when, how, or why we started allowed reloading? Also, "requiring" an admin to duplicate results in 5 replays What a lazy admin!! And crediting people who told you about a rule that was in existence before they (or you) started playing does not make them it's creator.
    The alternative to the reload rule is that people can waste their time on (even up to 40+) reloads. It has been done and it was the reason to implement this rule. You can essentially beat almost every army by reloading excessively against very clear odds.

    The people credited had written a rule down nicely and I adapted their sentence. According to scientific habits, you ought to add a reference in that case. You don't steal someone's work and add it to your own thread.

    If your rule ideas are better, I will consider replacing current ones or adding them to the thread as an alternative.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

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    [CeltÝbero]Mencey's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldor View Post
    You can essentially beat almost every army by reloading excessively against very clear odds.
    I humbly believe there is nobody around that has reloaded half as I've done, and what you are pointing is not exact. One full stack of militia could never beat a full stack of chivalric knights, i. e. no matter how many times you reload. It only works if odds are similar (talking about full stacks). Exception: naval battles.

    Having and admin that checks 5 times each battle in every single turn in a 100 turns hotseat... I dream with having admins that just passes turns when players don't show up!!!
    Spanish Medieval II TotalWar Hotseat Site: http://hmtw2.foroactivo.com/

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by [CeltÝbero]Mencey View Post
    I humbly believe there is nobody around that has reloaded half as I've done, and what you are pointing is not exact. One full stack of militia could never beat a full stack of chivalric knights, i. e. no matter how many times you reload. It only works if odds are similar (talking about full stacks). Exception: naval battles.

    Having and admin that checks 5 times each battle in every single turn in a 100 turns hotseat... I dream with having admins that just passes turns when players don't show up!!!
    The admin only checks suspected battles on player request. I'm an admin myself and I can't recall that I've actually had to check that many battles for excessive reloading since we implemented this rule.

    People can after all declare the outcome of testing in advance for themselves, if they had to reload ten times until a victory pops then obviously the tests would usually turn out bad. Essentially players will make less foolish attempts at exploiting. This in turn leads to less admin work.

    I can point you to a TATW hotseat where in one turn about 5 battles were reloaded excessively and eventually a victory popped even when defeat was normally unavoidable after about 30 to 40 tries each. Excessive reloading is real and it gives non-negligible advantages. (Example: #848)

    You can't beat a stack with one peasant unit, but you can defeat a clearly superior force (up to 2 vs 5) by merely reloading long enough.

    In the end you have a rule that serves mainly as a help tool for both the players and the admins to assess exploit likelyhood and it provides the admin with an objective, reproducible method of declaring battles (in)valid.

    NB: if it's close the admin can choose to make more than 5 attempts. As in theory if it's exactly 1/5 win, you could have been very lucky with random numbers.

    Lastly, if you really don't like a rule despite all arguments given... This thread only lists
    well-thought-out possibilities for fair hotseat competitive gaming.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    I'm wondering at the purpose of some of these rules. Most are obviously either just bans on exploits (attacking ships in a port), or for critical balance reasons (army cant move if defeated by player later in the turn order), or because it would be difficult to prevent players from getting "lucky" by reloading ad infinitum until they get what they want. But what is the reason, for example, for banning sieges for the purpose of cutting supply lines, or for banning scorched earth tactics of razing a city to deny it to the enemy?

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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ventos Mustel View Post
    I'm wondering at the purpose of some of these rules. Most are obviously either just bans on exploits (attacking ships in a port), or for critical balance reasons (army cant move if defeated by player later in the turn order), or because it would be difficult to prevent players from getting "lucky" by reloading ad infinitum until they get what they want. But what is the reason, for example, for banning sieges for the purpose of cutting supply lines, or for banning scorched earth tactics of razing a city to deny it to the enemy?
    I'm glad to see you want to understand the reason to these rules.

    Now to answer on the last two rules:

    But what is the reason, for example, for banning sieges for the purpose of cutting supply lines

    - Gameplay: Player is unable to counter it in any way.

    - Realism: would that depleted knight unit really be able to block off a settlement defended by 1000 troops from taking any action for 1 turn?

    - Balance: factions with cheaper units and greater recruitment have an advantage.

    - Sillyness: single, suicidal units across the whole map sieging huge forces due to game mechanics would be plainly said silly.

    for banning scorched earth tactics of razing a city to deny it to the enemy?

    (Initially we didn't have this rule and not even all hotseats have it up to this day.)

    - The map ends in a pile of destroyed settlements.

    - Factions can (ab)use it near-defeat to make their lands useless to the agressor.

    - Cannot be countered.

    - Stimulates passive play and punishes attackers. (personal reason)

    - Differences between gains for the successful agressor, based on the tactics of the opposing player (defeated), can have a large impact on who eventually wins the hotseat.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldor View Post
    I'm glad to see you want to understand the reason to these rules.

    Now to answer on the last two rules:

    But what is the reason, for example, for banning sieges for the purpose of cutting supply lines

    - Gameplay: Player is unable to counter it in any way.

    - Realism: would that depleted knight unit really be able to block off a settlement defended by 1000 troops from taking any action for 1 turn?

    - Balance: factions with cheaper units and greater recruitment have an advantage.

    - Sillyness: single, suicidal units across the whole map sieging huge forces due to game mechanics would be plainly said silly.

    for banning scorched earth tactics of razing a city to deny it to the enemy?

    (Initially we didn't have this rule and not even all hotseats have it up to this day.)

    - The map ends in a pile of destroyed settlements.

    - Factions can (ab)use it near-defeat to make their lands useless to the agressor.

    - Cannot be countered.

    - Stimulates passive play and punishes attackers. (personal reason)

    - Differences between gains for the successful agressor, based on the tactics of the opposing player (defeated), can have a large impact on who eventually wins the hotseat.
    Sallying out against the vastly inferior besieging army would be an adequate counter, wouldnt it? I know building and unit production are processed at the end of the owning player's turn, rather than the beginning, so if you can chase off the besieging units then you dont end up losing any of that progress. On the realism front, I'd think of it as less of the units physically stopping the garrison from acting and more them raiding supply lines into the city (which is what a siege historically amounted to, cutting off supplies to the fortress). I will concede that lost income could become an issue, but even then it would be possible to counter by leaving a few single units adjacent to the city. With the city's defenders as reinforcements, they could easily keep small raiding parties away from the city, while being able to retreat to safety without drawing the garrison outside the walls against any actually threatening armies.
    Everyone has access to more or less the same cheap peasant units or at least comparable ones, though I concede if you want a fast raiding unit then cheap cavalry isnt evenly distributed. As for the last point, guerrilla warfare may be a bit anachronistic to the setting, but I wouldnt say silly.

    On the scorched earth points: widespread desolation is often the result of true total war :p . You're right that razing buildings is not in itself counterable, but it does have drawbacks that would make it a strategic decision rather than a no-brainer. A region that a faction once held is likely to be one they have ambitions of holding again at some point later in the game. They have to consider what the value of the city is for them compared to their enemies. Also, as a point of personal preference, having disputed territories often razed into states of lesser development would be a check against the late-game tendency for armies to be solely composed of elite units, as the buildings required to train those elites would only be present in the most secure central provinces of a faction's territory.
    And tactics of one's immediate opponents always affect the outcome, regardless of what area you're talking about. If I'm Scotland, for example, then the single greatest determinant of whether I will be a viable factor in the endgame (other than my own skill) is the skill and tactics of whoever is playing as England.

  16. #16
    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ventos Mustel View Post
    Sallying out against the vastly inferior besieging army would be an adequate counter, wouldnt it? I know building and unit production are processed at the end of the owning player's turn, rather than the beginning, so if you can chase off the besieging units then you dont end up losing any of that progress. On the realism front, I'd think of it as less of the units physically stopping the garrison from acting and more them raiding supply lines into the city (which is what a siege historically amounted to, cutting off supplies to the fortress). I will concede that lost income could become an issue, but even then it would be possible to counter by leaving a few single units adjacent to the city. With the city's defenders as reinforcements, they could easily keep small raiding parties away from the city, while being able to retreat to safety without drawing the garrison outside the walls against any actually threatening armies.
    Everyone has access to more or less the same cheap peasant units or at least comparable ones, though I concede if you want a fast raiding unit then cheap cavalry isnt evenly distributed. As for the last point, guerrilla warfare may be a bit anachronistic to the setting, but I wouldnt say silly.
    I see your point but I have some (mainly gameplay) difficulties to add.

    You would not need one, but nine (in theory 8) units. You can siege settlements at 9 points.

    Furthermore you expose yourself to an attack from a larger stack, so the economy loss can't be countered if big enemy forces are near.

    I'm also talking on modifications, that have more inter-faction variation such as TATW.

    Realistically there would be forces spread at points near roads to prevent small raids , but they aren't represented ingame.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ventos Mustel View Post
    On the scorched earth points: widespread desolation is often the result of true total war :p . You're right that razing buildings is not in itself counterable, but it does have drawbacks that would make it a strategic decision rather than a no-brainer. A region that a faction once held is likely to be one they have ambitions of holding again at some point later in the game. They have to consider what the value of the city is for them compared to their enemies. Also, as a point of personal preference, having disputed territories often razed into states of lesser development would be a check against the late-game tendency for armies to be solely composed of elite units, as the buildings required to train those elites would only be present in the most secure central provinces of a faction's territory.
    And tactics of one's immediate opponents always affect the outcome, regardless of what area you're talking about. If I'm Scotland, for example, then the single greatest determinant of whether I will be a viable factor in the endgame (other than my own skill) is the skill and tactics of whoever is playing as England.
    I agree that the rule is somewhat debatable.

    I'd like to keep the player's original areas as his/her main recruitment centers and deny full elite stacks but it places factions with starting disadvantages in even larger trouble. For instances Stannis in WTW has 1 to 2 starting region(s), while Tyrell has many more. It wouldn't be fair that all of Stannis' opononents restrict him to only training advanced units in his starting region, while Tyrell can field as many elites as he pleases.

    The oponent's skill is counterable by your own. The lack of skill from the losing oponent isn't. It might not be a good idea to (not) burn everything down, but not everyone makes the right decision. Some players will desperately try to burn everything down to hold you off (or as revenge). Others will burn too few.

    It would be unfair for one agressor to end up with a highly developped hub and another agressor with burned down villages due to the oponents will in my opinion.


    Thanks for your comments and arguments.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

  17. #17
    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum (Request for sticky and additions/critics)

    I found a new(?) bug : kill own family members.

    Personally I might allow it as it only affects your own units. On the other hand it remains a bug.

    Family members
    - Kill family member bug not allowed.
    OR
    - Kill family member bug allowed.
    Spoiler for Kill family member bug
    Put the family member in a stack with zero movement points left. The family member can not be the leader of the stack. Next, go to the 'army' tab and select the general. Move him to a tile and he will be automatically killed.


    ______________________________


    Thread stickied after approval from Dux.
    Retired GS member, admin and local moderator in Hotseat Subforum. Voted best TATW admin.

  18. #18
    Aldor's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum

    New addition:

    - Indirectly breaking sieges or port blockades by alliance with factions allied to the enemy faction (turning them neutral) not allowed.
    OR
    - Indirectly breaking sieges or port blockades by alliance with factions allied to the enemy faction (turning them neutral) allowed.
    Last edited by Aldor; December 24, 2013 at 09:29 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum

    In my experience with single campaign one can not ally up with the enemy of your ally. Is this different in multiplayer?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Hotseat Rules Compendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Chieftain Khuzaymah View Post
    In my experience with single campaign one can not ally up with the enemy of your ally. Is this different in multiplayer?
    Automatic ceasefire occurs when an enemy allies with your ally.

    So the enemy faction must be initially neutral to your own ally to make it work.
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