Resource Works by paleologos

[paleologos]

The shield insignia of the Teutonic Order.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I would love to read the people's comments, don't be shy.

[Melooo182]

They look good just as the previous others hehe

[paleologos]

In this update you can see the shield insignia of the German peasants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As always your comments are most appreciated.

[Dontfearme22]

In this update you can see the shield insignia of the German peasants.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As always your comments are most appreciated.

Wow, you are just squeezing every ounce of graphics from the Medieval 2 engine, great work!

[Dr. Jones]

I like the shield patterns a lot, surely gives a good wooden texture to the shield.
Im not that good about HRE history details, so I cannot comment on the historical accuracy of it.
But I think you tried to use the symbols of different principalities/cities/kingdoms? Very nice idea.

[Protector]

Looks nice and authentic
and when I look at the last pic it would be even more beautiful if the German peasants would have feet.

[Aneirin]

Look all fine to me

Cheers!

[paleologos]

Thank you all, people!

Wow, you are just squeezing every ounce of graphics from the Medieval 2 engine, great work!

Somebody had to do it, I honestly believe that the M2TW graphics engine is seriously underutilized.

...
But I think you tried to use the symbols of different principalities/cities/kingdoms? Very nice idea.

Well, yes that was the idea.
I suppose when knights got the summons they would bring some of the local peasants along and they would sport the heraldry of both their place of origin and their country.

Looks nice and authentic and when I look at the last pic it would be even more beautiful if the German peasants would have feet.

Yes, indeed.
I did model the feet.
I did not model the floor, though.
Apparently what seems like solid behaves like mud in the game.

[Hellvard]

Peasants are looking great, but such ornamented shields are not historical accurate and just doesn't fit such unit. Heraldic symbols were used almost only by knights. And from which period this model is supposed to be? Round shields were widespread in Europe only to XII-XIIth century. And I think it would be better to give those peasants some simple two-handed weapons, likes axes, clubs, scythes, flails, etc

[Melooo182]

I believe the shield livery is mostly for identifying their faction during battle
And well in Titanium they will be probably used as some sort of town militia spawned through a garrison script during sieges

More peasant/militias variants will be available later, such as crossbowmen etc.

[Hellvard]

There is a banner above every unit, if we're talking about identyfying them If they really have to own some colourfull shields, they should be a lot simpler.

[paleologos]

There is a banner above every unit, if we're talking about identyfying them If they really have to own some colourfull shields, they should be a lot simpler.

It's not a matter of one being "right" and the other being " wrong".
But the way I see it they do not "own" the shields they carry at all.
The way I see it, some local knight got the summons and had to bring some extra manpower with him and he gave them shields he had lying around, painted in the colours of his household.

[Hellvard]

In fact, peasants usage on the battlefield was very rare, local knight cared about his retinue, he didn't have additional 100 or 200 shields for some peasants in his armoury Peasants fought only in necessity, and when they did, they used just their tools, like I said, flails, scythes, etc. You can give such equipment, but again, with less ornamented shields, to the city militias, they had their own arsenals, where they kept their weapons in time of peace.

[paleologos]

In fact, peasants usage on the battlefield was very rare, local knight cared about his retinue, he didn't have additional 100 or 200 shields for some peasants in his armoury.

One knight would have 10 shields, 25 knights would have 250.

Peasants fought only in necessity, and when they did, they used just their tools, like I said, flails, scythes, etc. You can give such equipment, but again, with less ornamented shields, to the city militias, they had their own arsenals, where they kept their weapons in time of peace.

Historically speaking I have no disagreement with what you say.
If it was entirely up to me I would make the peasants an exclusively rebel unit and they would be just as you describe them.
Here's the thing though.
Several months ago I asked my teammates what they would rather see in-game.
Something that is 100% historically accurate, or something that is of "moderate" historical accuracy, that is to say it looks "accurat-ish" but is better looking in-game?
You can guess what the bulk of the answers that I got asked for.

Anyway, I accept your remarks in the good spirit that they were made and I thank you for them.
Keep in mind that it is very easy to modify a model if all you want to do is delete the shields.
It requires literally no skill.

On a different note, the Danish patterns are complete and here are the first four in-game screenshots.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[HannibalExMachina]

about your question:

the heraldry is a bit elaborate for peasants (in fact, from the 12th century or so they would be forbidden to own weapons). now, since there wasnt any regulated heraldy before the 13th century, and any personal heraldry is only sparsely documented, you should be fine in that regard.

[Hellvard]

One knight would have 10 shields, 25 knights would have 250.

And they would give them to their retinue And how do you know, that every knight had 10 shields, any historical data to prove it?

Historically speaking I have no disagreement with what you say.
If it was entirely up to me I would make the peasants an exclusively rebel unit and they would be just as you describe them.
Here's the thing though.
Several months ago I asked my teammates what they would rather see in-game.
Something that is 100% historically accurate, or something that is of "moderate" historical accuracy, that is to say it looks "accurat-ish" but is better looking in-game?
You can guess what the bulk of the answers that I got asked for.

Allright, I understand this, all TW games and mods needs some low-tier units. But what stops you from give those peasants weapons that will fit to them? I'm sure there will be at least several units with shields and spears in your mod, why don't make one with flails and pitchforks? It will be both historical accurate and nice-looking, in my opinion at least

Anyway, I accept your remarks in the good spirit that they were made and I thank you for them.

At your service

[paleologos]

And they would give them to their retinue And how do you know, that every knight had 10 shields, any historical data to prove it?

It is merely a convention of thought, a working assumption, however presumptuous.
There is no historical data for this of course.
Like there is no historical data that Greek fire was body piercing, it probably wasn't.
There is plenty of historical data about the level od development of cities like Constantinople and Bagdad but had those cities been accurately implementend in the game, factions holding them would be unstoppable.
So what we have is working assumptions.

Allright, I understand this, all TW games and mods needs some low-tier units. But what stops you from give those peasants weapons that will fit to them? I'm sure there will be at least several units with shields and spears in your mod, why don't make one with flails and pitchforks? It will be both historical accurate and nice-looking, in my opinion at least

Oh brother, you are knocking on an open door here...
I don't own my teammates.
We work together and none of us does 100% what he wants.
We agree to do things in a way that achieves maximal consensus.

[Hellvard]

So your teammates insisted that peasants must carry shields? Unbelivable Allright then, carry on with your great job.

[paleologos]

So your teammates insisted that peasants must carry shields? Unbelivable Allright then, carry on with your great job.

As I said I would rather them be an entirely rebel roster unit.
My teammates wanted more inexpensive infantry.
I wanted all troops to have faction identifiers on them, like in the picture below with pitchforks and no shields:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My teammates did not like the insignia on the clothes but they were ok with shields and insignia on the shields.
I wanted insignia to tell one faction from another, so a compromise was reached.
And as I said, when the model is complete and uploaded, it will be available as a resource to the community and it will be very easy to simply delete the shields and have them -each player- the way they want them to be.


All that being said, the Scottish shields are finished and below you can get a taste of them.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Hellvard]

Ok, I understand you. But if you have to make these shields, the insignias on them really should be simpler and less ornamented, just simple factions symbols, actual ones are looking pretty werd in peasants hands.