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Thread: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    Celtic subgroup including Gaul. As far as most are concerned, Gauls are merely those Celts that lived in the region we call Gaul.

    And it is not like CA ever said or tried to portray this in the game either: Gallic factions are merely those Celtic ones in the regions and provinces that represent historical Gaul. It's true that the lack of cultural differences within subgroups (ie those Celts in Spain, Galatia, Thrace and Gaul have no cultural aversion penalties simply because they are, according to the game, all in the same category), but that is more a matter of the game not having more minute details of that sort. In other words, your accusation is not limited to the Celts living on Noricum, but pretty much every other culture. The Etruscans are not of the "Latin" culture, and the Romans borrowed a great deal of Celtic and Greek designs in military technology and methods. So any aversion to different cultures were shallow anyways.

    Ultiamtely the matter of a cltural aversion mechanic in the game not only serves a rather pointless purpose (it really is just another difficulty scale) but reveals how poorly designed the game was.

    Ironically, you had Desert-Nomadic in Africa compare to the Punic ones by Carthage and its clients. Which despite being rather historically accurate, actually would not have meant much to real people back then. If anything, the Greeks and Romans would have been distinguished for their cultural aversion to everyone else.

    In the end all I am saying is that this is not a particularly important issue. Not saying they shouldn't have better fleshed out unit rosters though, that problem is rife in the whole game. However I think this is also a case of narcissism of small differences

  2. #22

    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    Quote Originally Posted by Odovacar View Post

    I think CA did not dive into this research, because they use mainly Osprey books, but Rome II is their most historic game so far I think, we have tons of factions, and units are generally not hollywood pop culture guys...
    I agree, CA might not have done a 100% accurate depiction of the Celts, but compared to most other pop culture portrails they are far and away some of the best ever made. Far better than anything depicted in Hollywood movies, TV shows or other video games.

    Also, thanks for posting such a fascinating historical review of the Hallstatt Celts OP.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    Thank you for your research, its a shame that these tribes are always missing, espezially noricum, it was the first unity among celtic tribes and the first state in western europe, exept for rome.
    Especially as an austrian i would want to see it

  4. #24

    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    I think the bronze torso armor is a bit outdated for this period...I'd rather see those men with mail or kinds of celtic leather cuirasses/linothoraxes CA created.

    Giubiasco Tomb:
    Though the Giubiasco tomb doesn't feature any torso armor.
    Interestingly, the Negau has a very long timespan, with many evolutions and local variations.

    Attempts of reconstitutions(two different designers basing their work on actual archeology). I own the book where this Hallstattian prince is reenacted(several pictures and details on equipments+ texts), but I'm unsure it will go well with copyrights...etc

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Another Alpine auxiliary, with probably local protections.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by VINC.XXIII; December 06, 2017 at 07:54 AM.

  5. #25
    Darios's Avatar Ex Oriente Lux
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    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    I remember having thoughts about this when Rome 2 was first released - that the peoples of Rhaeta, Noricum, etc were historically more of a mixture of Etruscans, Illyrians, and Celts rather than copy-paste Gauls as depicted in game. The thing is, CA generally gives no love to non-playable factions and in Rome 2 - CA used "copy-paste Gauls" over a sway of European cultures ranging from Baltic Aesti to Daco-Germanic Bastarnae to the Alpine cultures. They used "copy-paste Germans" to the same purpose in Attila. I would love if some non-playable factions were more fleshed out with unique rosters/units, it would truly add a new layer of of cultural discovery and exploration to campaigns.

    I wish that the community would begin bringing similar topics up more often with CA as it's an "invisible factor" that in many ways, ruins immersion.
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  6. #26
    Genava's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Noricum, Pannonia and Boii are not Gaul!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    I remember having thoughts about this when Rome 2 was first released - that the peoples of Rhaeta, Noricum, etc were historically more of a mixture of Etruscans, Illyrians, and Celts rather than copy-paste Gauls as depicted in game. The thing is, CA generally gives no love to non-playable factions and in Rome 2 - CA used "copy-paste Gauls" over a sway of European cultures ranging from Baltic Aesti to Daco-Germanic Bastarnae to the Alpine cultures. They used "copy-paste Germans" to the same purpose in Attila. I would love if some non-playable factions were more fleshed out with unique rosters/units, it would truly add a new layer of of cultural discovery and exploration to campaigns.

    I wish that the community would begin bringing similar topics up more often with CA as it's an "invisible factor" that in many ways, ruins immersion.
    It comes from a simple fact: History is more boring than in the video game and in the fantasy of peoples. Pretty hard to find any evidence of these mixtures you suggested.
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