Build me a challenge worthy of Mordor

[totalwar_legend]

Hey everyone,

New to this mod, but seasoned veteran of M2TW. Rather than spending 1000 hours finding out exactly which faction is hardest to play with and what would be the ultimate challenge, I was hoping to just see if anyone already knew. I'm looking for a challenge so daring that few have tried and none have triumphed. Something that expresses true skill, not just random or extreme restrictions (win using only diplomats and no armies - boring e.g.). Something that would make an interesting Let's Play series to make.

[Oneru]

The ultimate challenge? Conquer Middle-Earth with the Orcs of the Misty Mountains. I won't even add things like 'make no alliances' etc, just this.

[totalwar_legend]

The ultimate challenge? Conquer Middle-Earth with the Orcs of the Misty Mountains. I won't even add things like 'make no alliances' etc, just this.

That doesn't sound hard. What makes it the ultimate challenge?

[Flinn]

well it's hard to say what can be the ultimate challange for you, as I don't know what is your playing stile nor which is your policy about exploiting game mechanics, or what you consider to be a challange successfully completed (i.e. you go with standard victory conditions from TW games? you play with lore or history accurancy? etc).

I don't know of any "impossible" task in TATW, but at any rate I can tell you what I consider a very HARD task

Use MOS, play as Gondor and activate all the scripts spamming extra armies for Mordor (there should be more than one script in the last MOS release); don't need to say of course to play VH/VH, don't exploit bad AI and so on and you should be put on hard test against a continuos flow of troops, to which you'll see more added from Harad and possibly much more from all the evil factions when you'll be object of an Invasion called by Sauron.
Though it depends on variuos things, it won't be impossible to see up to 10 Harad stacks pushing towards Gondor and usually 5-6 from Mordor (speaking about mid to late campaign), plus possibly some from Isengard and all the other guys running at you during invasions.

At any rate, conquering the whole ME with any faction (Mordor excluded I believe) is a very hard task, 'cause all the main settlements have Garrison Script and when you leave your side (good-bad) to fight against the whole world .. well the whole world turns against you

I don't know how much you know about TATW and its submods, but as a general rule there are MANY different features you shold know of before deciding what is hard for you

[totalwar_legend]

well it's hard to say what can be the ultimate challange for you, as I don't know what is your playing stile nor which is your policy about exploiting game mechanics, or what you consider to be a challange successfully completed (i.e. you go with standard victory conditions from TW games? you play with lore or history accurancy? etc).

I don't know of any "impossible" task in TATW, but at any rate I can tell you what I consider a very HARD task

Use MOS, play as Gondor and activate all the scripts spamming extra armies for Mordor (there should be more than one script in the last MOS release); don't need to say of course to play VH/VH, don't exploit bad AI and so on and you should be put on hard test against a continuos flow of troops, to which you'll see more added from Harad and possibly much more from all the evil factions when you'll be object of an Invasion called by Sauron.
Though it depends on variuos things, it won't be impossible to see up to 10 Harad stacks pushing towards Gondor and usually 5-6 from Mordor (speaking about mid to late campaign), plus possibly some from Isengard and all the other guys running at you during invasions.

At any rate, conquering the whole ME with any faction (Mordor excluded I believe) is a very hard task, 'cause all the main settlements have Garrison Script and when you leave your side (good-bad) to fight against the whole world .. well the whole world turns against you

I don't know how much you know about TATW and its submods, but as a general rule there are MANY different features you shold know of before deciding what is hard for you

This is interesting. I'll be getting MOS and activating all those scripts. I didn't really want to play as a "Good" faction though. Much prefer Evil. My playing style is extremely aggressive. I don't turtle. My campaigns hardly ever last beyond turn 100. Not exploiting bad AI, I'm not too sure what you mean. Does that mean when the AI does something stupid you don't smash them for it. How do you not punish bad AI? If that's the case I don't really care for it. I don't consider it a mark of skill to abstain from a good kill when presented, nor do I consider restriction to only honourable play any better. That's kind of what I mean by a boring restriction. I can do it, but it doesn't make me a better player.

[Flinn]

good to know, as said everybody has his own style

at any rate, if you like evil factions, well Orc of the Misty mountains will prove to be the toughest challenge, especially if you look to conquer whole ME as Oneru suggested, but in any case I suggest you to have a try with the regular TATW before of anything, 'cause for me this is the hardest mod ever, which becomes even harder with some submods.

to be honest with you, with TATW you don't need to make the challenge hard by things like no alliance, no agents etc, because it is already really hard as it is

[Dude with the Food]

Play a game as Mordor but don't invade any 'good' factions until you've taken every bordering rebel/'evil' region. Or the opposite with Gondor/Dale.

[Bladvak]

totalwar_legend, if you really want a challenge, then install MOS and continue reading :

Pick a faction from these: Gondor, Rohan, Dale, Dwarves or Eriador (not Arnor). Activate most scripts, at least those that give a boost to evil factions, but you can skip the immortal scripts. Turtle until the barracks event (or turn 50, or 100, of until the first invasion, your pick) by taking at most 1/2 of your factions' starting number of provinces (you can only take rebel provinces with minor exceptions such as E Osgiliath for Gondor). No loading of saves. No lost battles (as seen in the faction screen).

How have I come up with this challenge? I try to play as the Romani in Europa Barbarorum and I get to turtle until 200 BC, afterwhich it's hammertime. Arguably, I have loaded saves (before coming up with this rule) in order to shield myself from defeat, but won't do it again. Here's a tip : you will need lots of spies to protect from ambushes, strategic logic and planning, tactical prowess and a good deal of luck.

[Duke of Metz]

In MOS, try playing as Dunland. Reforge Arnor from the start, no plus "evil" scripts (Saruman's Forces, Eastern Shadow's, Rhudaur Warriors, etc.). Have fun fighting the full might of Arnor, Gondor, Rohan, High Elves all within striking distances while Isengard and Mordor will be substantially weaker.

[muller227]

This is interesting. I'll be getting MOS and activating all those scripts. I didn't really want to play as a "Good" faction though. Much prefer Evil. My playing style is extremely aggressive. I don't turtle. My campaigns hardly ever last beyond turn 100. Not exploiting bad AI, I'm not too sure what you mean. Does that mean when the AI does something stupid you don't smash them for it. How do you not punish bad AI? If that's the case I don't really care for it. I don't consider it a mark of skill to abstain from a good kill when presented, nor do I consider restriction to only honourable play any better. That's kind of what I mean by a boring restriction. I can do it, but it doesn't make me a better player.

If you want to play an evil faction OotMM is a good one, the quality differences in MOS of troops especially on VH is entertaining, They don't run and light infantry will rip up your version of heavy cav if you don't redeploy after contact. If you run into Golden looking Elves or Dwarves with masks, that half stack can rape your full stack. I don't think they sweat much in the doing either.

Battles as OotMM are complicated, you need meat shields (absorb arrows that are really accurate) and high quality generals. other than trolls your only valuable troops are the halbards, Elven base infantry is a match for third tier. Stakes are useful against their damn cavalry.

[ElvenKind]

Thread opened.

[Påsan]

I've seen some of your vids Legend, They are awesome. I think "Conquering Middle Earth as the Misty Mountian Goblins in 10 turns" is more up your alley

[Macilrille]

Well, you want to add MOS whatevet you play. Makes TATW much harder, about as much as TATW is harder than the Vanilla game.

The most difficult factions to play are reputedly Dale and Gondor for the good guys, OoTM and OoG for the baddies. Harad and Rhûn, SE and Dorfs the easiest.

But the thing is, TW games are designed for blitzing. If you want a real difficult game; turtle. A turtling Gondor is very hard, whereas the most effective strategy would be one that was right up your alley; send a fleet with a halfstack down and conquer Harad from the south. Personally I have never been able to turtle longer than to turn 137 with Gondor before switching to the offensive. ANd that was touch and go, for at that point you usually use all your resources just to defend.

But each to their own style, I have an acquaintence that blitzes all the map in EB with obscure factions and find that fun, whereas I prefer to restrain myself and let the enmy build up for a challenge that way.

That and Stainless Steel with the Grim Reality mod are others you might want to consider if you want challenges from the game without restricting yourself BTW. I have asked the MOS team to ask to include the Grim reality mod in MOS, if they do it will be a real challenge for all factions.

[muller227]

@macilrille GR in MOS with death spawn stacks after 150, I am thinking you are insane. I don't have enough time or a firm enough hold on my temper, my PC would not be safe.

[Jmonstra]

Gondor on VH/VH with 75 turn turtle restriction

[DrDragun]

You are Isengard.

Do not capture any settlements besides your starting territory and faction capitals.

You must capture all Good and Evil faction capitals.

[Macilrille]

Muller, I love to turtle. You know that ;-)

I was thinking that just like the lack of scantily clad females as avatars that somebody pointed out somewhere else, the reaction to Legend's challenge and name is another testemony to the maturity and/or restraint of TATW players. Many places he would have been booed, called braggart, etc., people here just state their opinions of what is best for challenging games...

[Jmonstra]

I, like the others, must insist on the turtle point. Turtle as Gondor on VH/VH (Long enough for Mordor and Harad to become extremely powerful) and then take the fight to them with your own built up forces and infrastructure. I would watch that all day.

[Macilrille]

Oh, and if I had not switched to the offensive at turn 137, I would have started loosing settlements and gone irrepearably down in flames. It was deffo touch and go.

[LuckyPistol]

The ultimate challenge? Conquer Middle-Earth with the Orcs of the Misty Mountains. I won't even add things like 'make no alliances' etc, just this.

Honestly this is probably the most straightforward answer. Download MOS and play as these guys with no +evil scripts like Dark Shadows, but all +good faction scripts such as reformed Arnor. And DON"T recruit the Balrog, see how well you do. All on VH/VH of course