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Thread: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

  1. #1
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    Default Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Post yours here

    At the top of your post (preferably in bold print) Please put the name of the Successor Kingdom you're playing as.

    Under the patronage of the Legendary Urbanis Legio - Mr Necrobrit of the Great House of Wild Bill Kelso. Honoured to have sponsored these great warriors for Citizenship - Joffrey Baratheon, General Brittanicus, SonOfOdin, Hobbes., Lionheartx10, Mangerman, Gen. Chris and PikeStance.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Macedon

    Here is a quick guide to Macedon. I'm doing it on normal, but as far as i can tell most of the initial moves can be done in harder settings. This is a very small scope guide, that aims to take over 2 full provinces in some 8-12 turns. From there you're on your own.

    First of all the situation:
    you are at war with one of the Tracian kingdoms, Tylis, and you control two separate provincial capitals. You have a spy, two armies and a small, 4 units, navy.

    You start with a goal of getting your navy to 5 ships, which you should do on first turn, that will net you 1000 gold. Most will agree that you should recruit the cheapest admiral available and give one of the javelin ships to his command. You now have 2 fleets, one that will guard your seas and one that will discover new nations to trade and have diplomacy with. The javelin ship will ensure that if you loose the admiral a new commander will be available on the spot, instead of disbanding the whole fleet.

    Now to war.
    The path I followed was to initially ignore Tracia, and go for the annihilation of Epirus. You are racing against Sparta and Athens, here, so get your troops to the border, fast and strong!

    You should get a new general in Pella (one recommends the young Demetrius (14 yo!), hoping he will have a long and significant life. Have him muster troops (I chose hoplites, some would prefer pikes).
    I followed the advice of building nothing initially, keeping the money for troop recruitment.
    Researched military with the aim of getting ballistas ASAP. This is all on the 1rst turn.

    Now, here is what to me makes or brakes this start, especially in harder settings: you are likely to catch Phyrrus army with his elephants on forced march near Larissa. That mean ambush AND no reinforcements from the city. Killing this army sets you up for the assault on Larissa, that should prove simples enough a battle for your troops (on harder settings mercenaries may be usefull to ensure an easy victory. Have your spy poison the wells, first, if you want, or, you can send her to Apollonia to scout ahead your next target.

    What you want is to make sure you captures Apollonia before Sparta (in my game they were going for it), and that implies moving fast with whatever you can muster on turn 2 to the mountain pass between Pellas and Apollonia and strike the next turn. This should prove about the same difficulty as Larissa. On my game I was joined by the Spartan forces but they did nothing…. This gave me full control over Macedon.

    Leaving a small army in Apollonia served as a deterrent for wannabe conquerors, assuring I didn’t have to worry about the southwest front, as Sparta and Athens kept peaceful.

    IN the mean time, Tylis offered for peace, which I accepted being busy in Macedon. I Sent my spy to check the situation in Tracia, and decide where to strike. I decided to move on Naissos first, Northwest of Pulpudeva, with the army there and more units gathered from Larissa.

    That went smoothly, as levy freemen were in bigger number but no match for your phalanxes. Next was Tylis, that had just been weakened by a force from across the Bosphorus. Again, Gallic type troops dispatched in similar fashion.

    Last was the dreaded Odryssians that in other attempts had made mince meat of my troops, with them falx warriors. I was prepared, and assaulting the settlement, I sent first my skirmishers, scouting for the (by now available) ballistas. Still most of the enemy remained on the docks, where their capture point was. I had to move foot troops in, but sent a unit of skirmishers that had depleted their ammo first, right ahead of the hoplites. They took heavy casualties, some 50%, but superbly did their job of stopping the charge from the falx warriors. The hoplites cleaned up easily after that.

    So that’s two complete provinces, one of them with 4 settlements.

    The future
    You now may want to look into your building strategies: move your troops production to Tracia may prove ideal to make super units benefiting from all the buildings you can add in the long run. This may take quite a few turns and money and unbalance your empire a bit. But will be worth it.

    This is where I stand at turn 10. You can now choose which way to go. I got lots of trade and alliance offers from the nations in the west, including Rome and Cartage. The east appears to be more hostile, not surprisingly with the rivalries of old still shaping the political landscape. That’s to Asia next, for my Macedon expansion. Hellas will be kept under a watchful eye, and I will not hesitate to take them, if they prove to be a menace. For the time being I’ll let them enjoy the friendly status quo.

    Whatever you choose, you now have a solid core of 2 full provinces from where your empire can grow.

    PS:
    One word on pikes and hoplites. Eventually you will want to have a pike army as numbers in battle grow. My experience was that with hoplites, smaller scale, less organized battles where your troops are more likely to be flanked, may be easier to handle due to better troop quality. Im not sure a lvy pike unit would endure the morale penalties on some of the situations my hoplites handled with steadiness and discipline.

    So, for me, and as long as I had to spread my units into several armies of little more than half stacks, hoplites were the way to go. Once I get more and better troops, I’ll move to the pike wall and hammer anvil tactics that made Alexander famous.

    Hope this was in some way useful for you, and thanks to the guys totalwar.org, totalwar.com and here at totalwarcenter.com where I got quite a few hints and tips.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    I agree with your opening stategy - I used something similar to great effect, though on harder difficulties I find taking down the Thracians early is more critical than taking down Epirus. The Thracians get scary with their two-handed swordsmen in large numbers, whereas Epirus will crumble against Athens and Sparta. As such, killing Tylis and Odryssia should be priorities. Skirmishers and cavalry are your best friend here. Hoplites and even pikes will die to those swordsmen.

    I also agree with your analysis of hoplites vs pikes. I will tend to run with 2 units of hoplites to cover the flanks of my pike units, as the AI likes to charge cavalry into their sides. Later in the game though I'll replace these with companion cavalry / aspis cavalry.

    In terms of expansion, there is no need to invade Asia Minor. Keep them strong with trade and alliances to act as a buffer against Armenia, Seleucia and Parthia. Use that to push all the way North, conquering everything on the way to the Baltic and to the rich Bosporus. With all that in your control you can turtle up and prepare for civil war.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Could anyone post a strategy guide for the Seleucid's Patch 7. Before patch 7 I didn't have much of a problem, but I seem to start games over every patch and I just cannot figure out how to get past the beginning stages. It seems like no matter what I do all my client states turn on me after about 6-10 turns in, one right after the other.

    So far I had the best luck on a campaign declaring war on Egypt and Cypress right away taking Cypress and a good portion of Egypt. Before that I let half my client states go just for the heck of it to see what would happen. But they still ended up declaring war on me, one right after the other. Patch 7 the Seleucid's are hard! (im playing on very hard, and refuse to turn the difficulty level down).

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by One2Three View Post
    Could anyone post a strategy guide for the Seleucid's Patch 7. Before patch 7 I didn't have much of a problem, but I seem to start games over every patch and I just cannot figure out how to get past the beginning stages. It seems like no matter what I do all my client states turn on me after about 6-10 turns in, one right after the other.

    So far I had the best luck on a campaign declaring war on Egypt and Cypress right away taking Cypress and a good portion of Egypt. Before that I let half my client states go just for the heck of it to see what would happen. But they still ended up declaring war on me, one right after the other. Patch 7 the Seleucid's are hard! (im playing on very hard, and refuse to turn the difficulty level down).
    The thing is that your Client States doesn't like you. Well, actually they downright hate you. So you need to quickly get them to like you. And the easiest way to do this is to wage war. Cappadocia is fairly weak and an easy target, so in the first five turns you will have to quickly mount an invasion. When you win the battles, always sell the enemies as slaves. If you release the prisoners, it will decrease your relation with your client states. So, if you have managed to take a Cappadocian settlement, such as Amazeia, you should already have a far better standing with your client states by now. Conquering and killing them off downright, and they will like you alot.

    The client states don't really care WHO you fight, just as long as you are showing your enemies no mercy, and soon your client states will love you.
    August Strindberg: "There's a view, current at the moment even among quite sensible people, that women, that secondary form of humanity (second to men, the lords and shapers of human civilisation) should in some way become equal with men, or could so be; this is leading to a struggle which is both bizarre and doomed. It's bizarre because a secondary form, by the laws of science, is always going to be a secondary form. Imagine two people, A (a man) and B (a woman). They start to run a race from the same point, C. A (the man) has a speed of, let's say, 100; B (the woman) has a speed of 60. Now, the question is 'Can B ever overtake A?" and the answer is 'Never!'. Whatever training, encouragement or self-denial is applied, the proposition is as impossible as that two parallel lines should ever meet."


  6. #6

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    I'm playing a Seleucid Patch 7 game now.

    The initial approach of taking out Egypt and Cyprus seems to have eventually paid of.
    I've removed Pergamon, Athens and Sparta from the game too.
    Galatia and Sardes have also gone too.

    I've got a solid line of alliances now with factions to my west - until they start fighting among themselves - Cyrenaica, Libya, Nasamones, Macedon. I have Knossos as ally in the Med (Rhodos remain steadfastly aloof but no problem.) To the north I have allies in Pontus and Bithynia, but I'm avoiding joining new wars they propose. Hopefully that might encourage them to concentrate on fewer enemies.

    To the south I am good terms with the Blemmyes and others around the south of Arabia. Even the Nabateans are now allies.

    Which pretty much leaves me to wage unrelenting war on those damn former satrapies. And a long war it will be I expect.

    For now I am engaged in pitched battles with Armenia, Media Atroptene and Parthava. But I'm slowly gaining ground especially now I have turned their hero who wrecking my settlements

    I'll let you know how I get on.

  7. #7
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    An evil way to play Seleucids

    Post patch 7, Seleucids start with a pre-existing truce with Cyprus (and, by extension, with their overlord, Egypt). Declaring war on Egypt on turn 1 is likely to result in a global diplomatic reliability hit and satrap desertions. So, what to do?

    Discover Cyrenaica on turn 2. The poor desert Greeks are about to be annihilated by Ptolemies and are more than happy to come under the wing of Antioch as satraps. This, in effect, ends their war and saves them from an imminent destruction by Egypt.

    Here is the catch. Alexandria is less than pleased by this twist of events and is very likely to renew hostilities against Cyrenaica on turn 3 or 4 (at least that's how it happens on VH difficulty). This gives the green light to Seleucids on their way to Egyptian granaries and makes Egypt, not Seleucids, the global diplomatic underdogs. Blood thirsty satraps are more than happy to join the brawl.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    I find it very very hard to keep Satrapies in Patch 7. I tried everything possible, replaying the first 10 turns multiple times. Even wiping out Cappadocia on Turn 3 and Qidri shortly thereafter, PLUS giving 500-1k gifts to Aria, Parthava and Sagartes, they still declare war on me despite being only "unfriendly". So I'm nearly convinced it isn't possible to keep those 3 anymore. I managed to get Galatia (or whatever their name is - the tribe between Cappadocia and Pontus) as a friendly Satrapy on Turn 2 by accident - they offered me a 500 payment to take them as Satrapy .. and not even that helped. I'm all out of ideas >.<

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadeslayer View Post
    I find it very very hard to keep Satrapies in Patch 7. I tried everything possible, replaying the first 10 turns multiple times. Even wiping out Cappadocia on Turn 3 and Qidri shortly thereafter, PLUS giving 500-1k gifts to Aria, Parthava and Sagartes, they still declare war on me despite being only "unfriendly". So I'm nearly convinced it isn't possible to keep those 3 anymore. I managed to get Galatia (or whatever their name is - the tribe between Cappadocia and Pontus) as a friendly Satrapy on Turn 2 by accident - they offered me a 500 payment to take them as Satrapy .. and not even that helped. I'm all out of ideas >.<
    It is quite possible to keep satrapies even when playing on VH. I've managed to do so until around turn 50 post patch 7 (haven't gotten further).

    Tips to do so: keep your satraps engaged in wars along with you. Be ruthless in your wars. Satraps love that.

    Then there's cash. Seleucids are a money generating machine (need trade for that; get those trade contracts in asap) and should use that money. The Eastern-most satraps sometimes need cash incentives to stay faithful

    Cappadocia? You destroyed it?? Cappadocia is a willing satrap (pays cash to become one on turn 1). Cappadocia becoming your satrap saves them from Pontus and gives you a faithful satrap (no hostilities between you two). Focus your aggression to Quidri at the start, then Cyprus (and by extension Egypt) and Nabatea.

    Here is a Seleucid campaign I started after patch 7. This is around turn 30. Difficulty is VH. See the diplomatic attitude of my satraps?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by Slaists; November 27, 2013 at 08:44 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Well I'm further into the game now - all former satrapies are now part of the seleucid empire. I control from the Caspian to the Med

    And now I'm waiting for the civl war so I'm building up all my newly captured settlements so thay can pump out troops if I lose any settlements near my capital.

    All allies have remained onside too. And have a network of trading partners across the Med.

    Rhodos has finally awoken and attacked Bithynia for some reason - Bithynia has about 6 regions but hasn't yet attacked Rhodes, just recaptured whatever Rhodes takes.
    I'm thinking a visit to Rhodes by some Seleucids is overdue.

    Nabteans and Ma'in control all of Arabia
    Blemmyes everything to the south of Egypt.
    Knossos has 2 Macedonian cities and one in Armenia - they supported my war there and nabbed a region before I could get to it.
    Cyrenaica and Libya and Nasamontes are patrolling the eastern Med. Keeps them happy I suppose.

    Onwards and Upwards.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists View Post
    It is quite possible to keep satrapies even when playing on VH. I've managed to do so until around turn 50 post patch 7 (haven't gotten further).

    Tips to do so: keep your satraps engaged in wars along with you. Be ruthless in your wars. Satraps love that.

    Then there's cash. Seleucids are a money generating machine (need trade for that; get those trade contracts in asap) and should use that money. The Eastern-most satraps sometimes need cash incentives to stay faithful

    Cappadocia? You destroyed it?? Cappadocia is a willing satrap (pays cash to become one on turn 1). Cappadocia becoming your satrap saves them from Pontus and gives you a faithful satrap (no hostilities between you two). Focus your aggression to Quidri at the start, then Cyprus (and by extension Egypt) and Nabatea.

    Here is a Seleucid campaign I started after patch 7. This is around turn 30. Difficulty is VH. See the diplomatic attitude of my satraps?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Well, I guess my problem was not starting new wars fast enough. I waited for Tier 2 barracks in order to make a decent army, started recruiting in Antioch, spent 3-4 turns without any wars.. and then the Satrapies declared on me, despite giving them lots of cash. I guess I could try going into new wars right away with my basic army Jerusalem and Petra usually *are* completely undefended and would probably be easy to take.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Also could you please give me a few more pointers, namely:

    What bodyguard units are in general for Seleucids? I'm kind of overwhelmed with the choices

    Army composition? I tend to use the standard Pikemen-based formation (Pikemen as main line, Hoplites and cavalry at flanks, Skirmishers at flanks to flank the enemy once they can, some archers behind main line, some infantry in 2nd line to plug any gaps). But the Seleucid roster seems pretty varied even with only the basic building, so I wonder what would be my options in the future.

    Province planning? Do I make Syria a military powerhouse, an economic powerhouse or a balanced province? I understand it's very rich and it might be a waste to make it go fully military and exempt it from tax, like is the viable thing to do with some other factions.

    Thx <3

  13. #13

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    I use companion Cavalry for generals - they can get around battlefields quicker than infantry, easier to use than chariots.
    And they can get lots of XP running down routing enemy infantry.
    Downside is that auto-resolve currently hurts cavalry disproportionately badly, so they longer to get back to full strength.

    Armies - I use pikes in centre and flank then with eastern spears (early game) - spears maneuver more easily.
    Have hillmen and whatever merc sword infantry in second line.
    Cavalry on flanks, archers behind infantry, slingers on flanks.

    Fairly standard lay-out for these armies ?

    As for what to do with your provinces - depends on which ones you control and what's around you.
    Seleucids seem easier to balance food and public order than some other factions ?
    You can have military buildings in most settlements at lower levels without a problem.
    I prefer a balanced approach to development - on the basis that you never know which regions you might lose
    (although with careful management and diplomacy that should become increasingly unlikely.)

    You mileage may vary

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadeslayer View Post
    Also could you please give me a few more pointers, namely:

    What bodyguard units are in general for Seleucids? I'm kind of overwhelmed with the choices

    Army composition? I tend to use the standard Pikemen-based formation (Pikemen as main line, Hoplites and cavalry at flanks, Skirmishers at flanks to flank the enemy once they can, some archers behind main line, some infantry in 2nd line to plug any gaps). But the Seleucid roster seems pretty varied even with only the basic building, so I wonder what would be my options in the future.

    Province planning? Do I make Syria a military powerhouse, an economic powerhouse or a balanced province? I understand it's very rich and it might be a waste to make it go fully military and exempt it from tax, like is the viable thing to do with some other factions.

    Thx <3
    I use Companions for generals as they are quick and powerful.

    For Governors I usually use Royal Peltasts as they are beasts!
    August Strindberg: "There's a view, current at the moment even among quite sensible people, that women, that secondary form of humanity (second to men, the lords and shapers of human civilisation) should in some way become equal with men, or could so be; this is leading to a struggle which is both bizarre and doomed. It's bizarre because a secondary form, by the laws of science, is always going to be a secondary form. Imagine two people, A (a man) and B (a woman). They start to run a race from the same point, C. A (the man) has a speed of, let's say, 100; B (the woman) has a speed of 60. Now, the question is 'Can B ever overtake A?" and the answer is 'Never!'. Whatever training, encouragement or self-denial is applied, the proposition is as impossible as that two parallel lines should ever meet."


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadeslayer View Post
    Well, I guess my problem was not starting new wars fast enough. I waited for Tier 2 barracks in order to make a decent army, started recruiting in Antioch, spent 3-4 turns without any wars.. and then the Satrapies declared on me, despite giving them lots of cash. I guess I could try going into new wars right away with my basic army Jerusalem and Petra usually *are* completely undefended and would probably be easy to take.
    Exactly...

    As Seleucids, you get a great choice of general's units for different situations (even armored Indian Elephants hidden behind the selection arrow on the right side). Make good use of those at the start of the campaign while your army is mostly militia. Took all of Egypt (and Cyprus) with them

    Militia armies are fun. At least some sense of danger with them when fighting against the AI.

    Here, for some laughs, started another Seleucid VH campaign. Vaniila, patch 7, no mods. Look at all those happy, bloodthirsty satraps... This is turn 11, btw. Seleucid armies are all militia for now, but just conquered some level 2 barracks from Nabatea that allow me to train thorax pikemen/swords (level 2 Seleucid barracks would only give pikemen and persian hoplites). Go figure... LOL.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    As to fast wars that your satraps like, here's a hint. Those do not need to be wars that you actually fight in with your militia armies. Take the East as an exmple. It is likely your Eastern satraps will come to hate Dahae there. Help your vassals out (they cannot declare war on their own): declare war on the Dahae when the moment is right. Your satraps will love you for giving them something to nibble on. You wont lose anything as a result of this declaration either. You cannot trade with Dahae after all.

    Here is a quick (one turn) "before" and "after" comparison. Diplo screen before declaring war on Dahae (Eastern-most satraps are borderline unhappy):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The "after" picture, after declaring war on Dahae:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Satraps are noticeably happier in the East. Bactria can be used as a similar scapegoat later on.
    Last edited by Slaists; November 28, 2013 at 11:06 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Thx for all the advice. I started a new Campaign according to the advice given here, I promptly conquered Qidri, made Cappadocia a Satrapy on Turn 1, made Cyrenaica a Satrapy on Turn 3, conquered Cyprus and Egypt, no more impeding wars, huge income per turn, happy satrapies... so I got bored and started playing Sparta. Haha. The Seleucid campaign stops being fun way too early x_X it's much more challenging and fun to start at 1 Settlement surrounded by possible wars

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadeslayer View Post
    Thx for all the advice. I started a new Campaign according to the advice given here, I promptly conquered Qidri, made Cappadocia a Satrapy on Turn 1, made Cyrenaica a Satrapy on Turn 3, conquered Cyprus and Egypt, no more impeding wars, huge income per turn, happy satrapies... so I got bored and started playing Sparta. Haha. The Seleucid campaign stops being fun way too early x_X it's much more challenging and fun to start at 1 Settlement surrounded by possible wars
    There is the alternative route for playing with Seleucids: let the satraps rebel and let the fireworks begin

  18. #18

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    Well I took the scenic route and slowly destroyed the satrapies. PITA the lot of them.

    Kept my allies such as Knossos, Bithynia, Pontus, Blemmyes, Libya and later Macedonia and got a military victory whilst campaigning in Spain.
    You get a nice little film at the end. Whoopee-do.

    I was quite looking forward to taking on the Gallic Confederation but couldn't be bothered with continuing.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    In my opinion (I have never played with Seleucid, they were my worst enemy in Rome Total War), Macedon is a relatively OP-ed nation early in game. They start with a small territory (2 cities) so you don't have to spend much money on buildings early in game. They may be a bit squished in, but if you play as Macedon, you have one of the strongest armies early in game - one of your armies has Companion Cavalry , and if you change their general's unit to companions, these two units can cut clean through even hoplites.

    Your first move should be gaining full control of the Macedonia province and for that you have to destroy Epirus. If you use your starting units correctly, you can defeat them without any help from Athens or Sparta. They have a few Hellenic Royal Guards, but you can hammer and anvil them with pikemen and 2 Companion Cavalry.

    Now that Epirus is gone, you can focus on your faction a bit. Make sure to establish as many trade routes as you can for they will give you enough gold to develop your cities and keep 1-2 armies (Pontus in particular will be friendly to you). Fleets are not so important right now. Make sure to keep a few "agricultural regions" (i did it with Larrissa) to have a steady supply of food. Develop Pella as much as you can because, right now, it is the hub of your commerce. Pulpudeva (Thracia) is also important for it will be your staging point for the invasion of Thracia. NOTE: Pulpudeva is also one of the wealthiest regions in game, so use it.

    Thracians are not very hard to defeat as long as you mop up their skirmishers with your cavalry. If you don't, you will lose an entire army in a minute. Also, their infantry usually have weak armor value. If they barricade themselves in a fort, attack for example their northern "gate" with infantry and southern gate with cavalry. It should cause a rout and then Thracians are prey.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Successor Kingdom Campaign Guides

    The only issue with that plan is that diplomatic reliability has been fixed (sort of) since patch 7. Macedon starts with a military access with Epirus + a pre-existing truce that expires in 10 turns. Canceling the military access + attacking within the first 10 turns will result in a reliability hit; not canceling and attacking in even worse of a hit.

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