Captain America: The Winter Soldier

[Knight of Heaven]

Iron man 2 was horrible but that was more due to the childishness of it with Hammer acting like a 13 year old in his speech and body language, Iron man 3 was a lot better in that regard.

I agree with the rest of your post although Thor is my favourite due to him being you know, the Nordic god of Thunder, I love everything that tries to delve in mythology

Well i also liked the thor movies, even if i wasnt blown away by it , i think the chemistry between loki and thor is just great in the movies.. a pitty that ends up being the plot for the movies, overshadowing everything else.

Thor 2 just shows more of thor powered combat, just like Man of steal type of combat.

Also Nordic mythology isnt the only mythology in the avenger universe.. Greek is there as well. Atlantis, and Hercules etc.
Im intrigued how the MCU will aproach the magic thing, specialy with Dr.Strange character.

Note: Btw yesterdays episode of Agents of Shield, was quite good

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Agent Ward Dam!! , devious litle basterd, im growing on the character now, also great acting as Coulson character, for a moment i was expecting fury to show up too... even if i know he will be in a few episodes, near season end, i heard Maria Hill will be too ( now there is a character that has been miss used so far, hoping to see her more in the future.) they could use her more in the TV show imo.

[Captain Jin]

As for the Murrica comment, come on, he's called captain America, he's practically wearing the flag, he was created at the time to inspire Americans, he's supposed to embody the American ideal. And he was beating up a bunch of French of who I assumed from the trailer where CIGN or military special forces or maybe even legion etrangé after 12 years of Americans screaming " the French are surrender monkeys hurr durr, and Americans belittling Europe in general, I found that extremely offensive. I figured it was the USA beating up Europe symbolically. In the end it was handled ok in the movie.

I thought you might like to know that the French guy was a villain from Cap's comics called Batroc the Leaper and he's from the 60s, is French, and served in the Foreign Legion and has a unit of mercenaries that fight for him called Batroc's brigade. I think it was silly you got so upset by imagined offenses or symbolism that wasn't there before seeing the movie.

[The Despondent Mind]

Even implying that a modern Hollywood movie would have such symbolism is honestly quite ridiculous.

[Påsan]

Well i also liked the thor movies, even if i wasnt blown away by it , i think the chemistry between loki and thor is just great in the movies.. a pitty that ends up being the plot for the movies, overshadowing everything else.

Thor 2 just shows more of thor powered combat, just like Man of steal type of combat.

Also Nordic mythology isnt the only mythology in the avenger universe.. Greek is there as well. Atlantis, and Hercules etc.
Im intrigued how the MCU will aproach the magic thing, specialy with Dr.Strange character.

Note: Btw yesterdays episode of Agents of Shield, was quite good

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Agent Ward Dam!! , devious litle basterd, im growing on the character now, also great acting as Coulson character, for a moment i was expecting fury to show up too... even if i know he will be in a few episodes, near season end, i heard Maria Hill will be too ( now there is a character that has been miss used so far, hoping to see her more in the future.) they could use her more in the TV show imo.

They need to be careful, the more weird characters they put in, the more confusing and arbitrary the world become and t will eventually end up like their comic universe, which honestly from an objective standpoint as far as fictional universes go, is a pretty piss poor place where nothing makes sense at all.

[Knight of Heaven]

They need to be careful, the more weird characters they put in, the more confusing and arbitrary the world become and t will eventually end up like their comic universe, which honestly from an objective standpoint as far as fictional universes go, is a pretty piss poor place where nothing makes sense at all.

That is vastly subjective...
For someone who doesnt read the comics or seldom it does, i totaly agree, for someone who does? it makes perfect sense.
Just like anyother works... if you miss stuff in the continuity, and in the story, it will be much harder get on track with everything... it pretty much can be otherworldly and such, but that is nature of the thing itself. If you folow the plots, and the context, it all makes realy sense. Unless you start to read from issue 17 0r 20 instead from the start... imo anyway.
Also if you are mentioning me sugesting Maria Hill to become more relevant in Agents of Shield, she isnta weird character, and she is already in the marvel movies... (She is Furys right hand women, if you didnt noticed)

However i agree that there is a risk that overcrowding it too much, it will make it more dificult to tell a story on screen. Allthough as the TV show i dont care, they realy need some weird characters in there for once...

My guess thats what these character movies are for in a way, to develop this characters to let the audience know who they are. Regardless they need to put this less knowned characters anyway, about time if you ask me. As they said in the end of the Winter Soldier, its the age of Miracles, so we will definely will see some more "strange" ( more meta-humans). Regardless i think they did ok introducing these secondary major characters, without making them a movie just for them... like the Falcon, War machine, Scarlet witch, and QuickSilver, Black Widow for example, and honestly they dont need a film just for them, so far it worked fine, and specialy if they are going to make the avenger thing official, like having the avengers in the Avenger tower etc.

[Inkie]

The film was okay, it had some fun action as per usual. I think I'm just getting a bit bored of the Marvel formula though. I never used to be put off by predictable and dull plots, repeated tropes and the same 1h30 slog of punching people, but now I just can't enjoy the action as much, even if I try. Even the post-credits scenes are getting tiresome now, though that's probably 100% related to the fact that I have no idea what they're on about any more and so my fault for not being more of a Marvel geek.

The highlight of this film was probably the Nick Fury assassination attempt sequence. Actually felt pretty tense.

[Knight of Heaven]

I honestly think more and more, that these movies will not speak as much to people who doesnt know the Marvel universe, ( a thing who cleary shows in this thread), despite Marvel attempts to be as mainstream as possible. The truth, is the more they go, and go, it will become more dificult to target an wider audience. ( maybe, i dont know this movies are doing well at the box office anyway)

However this comic books films are usualy aimed at the fans anyway, with a casual touch to make it more casual to the well, the casuals.
Even though, the facts are the facts This movie as seen excelent reviews both from critics and from people who went see it. We also cant forget this surveillance by NSA and espionage scandals are in the order of the day, and this movie dwels on this issues, and their nature. It is also not a strange theme in the comics either.

Im not sure if they need to worry about it that much. Not to mention the US market is quite big on this comics, both Marvel and DC, they just need to make good films all arround.

Even the post-credits scenes are getting tiresome now, though that's probably 100% related to the fact that I have no idea what they're on about any more and so my fault for not being more of a Marvel geek.

Well for the most of it you might not need to be a Marvel geek, but for those who are, they would recognize the Characters imediatly ( i mean Baron Strucker, and Scarlet Witch, QuickSilver) people would notice "loki" scepter, on wich they were experiementing on, and from wich they were controling Scarlet and Quick ( they even mentioned that in the scene)
And the “Age of Miracles” namedrop is interesting, assuming that’s the correct translation, since we know Marvel Studios cannot use the term “mutants.” They’ll officially be dubbed “registered gifted” and although we don’t know the origins of their powers just yet, we think it could have something to do with The Inhumans, another property Marvel might be looking to adapt after The Avengers: Age of Ultron in Phase 3 of the franchise.
For those who dont know Both scarlet witch and QuickSilver are the son and daughter of Magneto, ence being one of the ties to the X-men, and mutant stuff, and "Age of Miracles reference", wich folows up in the same theme of nazis or hydra being experimenting on Mutants or gifted...
We dont know how marvel will handle these characters yet though, they might not dwelve in too deep in their origins, only they are being used by hydra.

Also if you recall loki scepter, isnt realy lokis, it was handed to him by Thanos in the avengers movie, So it will link to thor movies, as well the Guardians fo the galaxy movie... so, theories abound that the scepter contains another infinity stone, wich so far, this stones have been a crucial part in the whole story on the MCU, and it will lead somewhere.

[Inkie]

I honestly think more and more, that these movies will not speak as much to people who doesnt know the Marvel universe, ( a thing who cleary shows in this thread), despite Marvel attempts to be as mainstream as possible. The truth, is the more they go, and go, it will become more dificult to target an wider audience. ( maybe, i dont know this movies are doing well at the box office anyway)

However this comic books films are usualy aimed at the fans anyway, with a casual touch to make it more casual to the well, the casuals.
Even though, the facts are the facts This movie as seen excelent reviews both from critics and from people who went see it. We also cant forget this surveillance by NSA and espionage scandals are in the order of the day, and this movie dwels on this issues, and their nature. It is also not a strange theme in the comics either.

Im not sure if they need to worry about it that much. Not to mention the US market is quite big on this comics, both Marvel and DC, they just need to make good films all arround.

Well, regardless of whether I'm a casual or not, I just didn't really find it to be a hugely engaging or exciting film, and I felt the same way about Thor: The Dark World and The Amazing Spiderman. I'm aware that lots of people enjoyed it though, so good for them

Well for the most of it you might not need to be a Marvel geek, but for those who are, they would recognize the Characters imediatly ( i mean Baron Strucker, and Scarlet Witch, QuickSilver) people would notice "loki" scepter, on wich they were experiementing on, and from wich they were controling Scarlet and Quick ( they even mentioned that in the scene)
And the “Age of Miracles” namedrop is interesting, assuming that’s the correct translation, since we know Marvel Studios cannot use the term “mutants.” They’ll officially be dubbed “registered gifted” and although we don’t know the origins of their powers just yet, we think it could have something to do with The Inhumans, another property Marvel might be looking to adapt after The Avengers: Age of Ultron in Phase 3 of the franchise.
For those who dont know Both scarlet witch and QuickSilver are the son and daughter of Magneto, ence being one of the ties to the X-men, and mutant stuff, and "Age of Miracles reference", wich folows up in the same theme of nazis or hydra being experimenting on Mutants or gifted...
We dont know how marvel will handle these characters yet though, they might not dwelve in too deep in their origins, only they are being used by hydra.

Also if you recall loki scepter, isnt realy lokis, it was handed to him by Thanos in the avengers movie, So it will link to thor movies, as well the Guardians fo the galaxy movie... so, theories abound that the scepter contains another infinity stone, wich so far, this stones have been a crucial part in the whole story on the MCU, and it will lead somewhere.

How does the bolded part correlate with the rest of your paragraph?

[Knight of Heaven]

How does the bolded part correlate with the rest of your paragraph?

I mean you wouldnt need to be a Marvel Loremaster to know whats going on in the MCU. The major parts anyway.
What i wanted to underline, is the fans that are already knowledgable of marvel Universe will always take more from this kinda films. The winter soldier was specialy full of easter eggs... and references.

Well, regardless of whether I'm a casual or not, I just didn't really find it to be a hugely engaging or exciting film, and I felt the same way about Thor: The Dark World and The Amazing Spiderman. I'm aware that lots of people enjoyed it though, so good for them

Hum? i found the Winter Soldier a way better movie then those 2, and a much more engaging film. (doing better at the box office too so far.
I didnt specialy liked Thor the dark world, or the amazing spiderman either... but they were more or less what i was expecting.
I dont expect oscar wiining films anyway... that isnt realy the point... context, context...
And i meant casual movie goer, not knowledgable of the Marvel characters, and their references etc. Who goes there to see a film for what it is, not minding this chaqracters complexities etc.


Personaly i found the winter soldier film fantastic, better then i was expecting at least given the context.
Is the Winter soldier the best political or action thriler ever made? No
But is one amoung the best comic book adaptations films ever made, mixing good grounded action sequences, with espionage, and political thriller vibe in it. I was expecting something more campy, and more comedic oriented like the rest of the marvel movies, but at least this one you had some substance in it, and decent plotstoryline. It is very akin imo to the first Iron man, (tone and spirit wise) and i think thats a great thing.
Its an excelent pop corn movie, and then some. Thats what im saying.

[Inkie]

I mean you wouldnt need to be a Marvel Loremaster to know whats going on in the MCU. The major parts anyway.

...Which is not what I said. I'll reiterate: the past few post-credit scenes I've seen have been more Marvel-fan oriented. I'm fine with this.

Hum? i found the Winter Soldier a way better movie then those 2, and a much more engaging film. (doing better at the box office too so far.
I didnt specialy liked Thor the dark world, or the amazing spiderman either... but they were more or less what i was expecting.

Okay, you found Winter Soldier superior to Thor and Spider Man. I did too tbh, yet I just wasn't hugely impressed by any of them. Is that okay? lol

I dont expect oscar wiining films anyway... that isnt realy the point... context, context...
And i meant casual movie goer, not knowledgable of the Marvel characters, and their references etc. Who goes there to see a film for what it is, not minding this chaqracters complexities etc.

Eh, well I was into Spider Man quite a lot as a teen and I dabbled in some others, but Marvel is so vast that I'm a bit lost with most of them. So you're telling me I missed out on "character complexities" that I would have only noticed if I had read the Captain America comics?

Personaly i found the winter soldier film fantastic, better then i was expecting at least given the context.
Is the Winter soldier the best political or action thriler ever made? No
But is one amoung the best comic book adaptations films ever made, mixing good grounded action sequences, with espionage, and political thriller vibe in it. I was expecting something more campy, and more comedic oriented like the rest of the marvel movies, but at least this one you had some substance in it, and decent plotstoryline. It is very akin imo to the first Iron man, (tone and spirit wise) and i think thats a great thing.
Its an excelent pop corn movie, and then some. Thats what im saying.

Hmm, well I respect your opinion but disagree. I personally enjoyed the first Iron Man film a lot more than this. In this case, (and in my opinion) the action was good but didn't really stand out too much, while the espionage element had some appeal to it but only on quite a superficial level that I couldn't really get immersed in. Regarding the execution, nothing really rolled out in a surprising or engaging way and suspense was generally not that high for me. A lot of this wasn't redeemed simply for the fact that I find Captain America to be far less entertaining than Tony Stark (meaning that he can't carry a film in the same way), so there's that. It seems like a lot of people really liked the conspiracy dynamic - I wish that had been the case for me as I wanted to have more fun with this, but it just didn't really spark.

[The Despondent Mind]

The film was okay, it had some fun action as per usual. I think I'm just getting a bit bored of the Marvel formula though. I never used to be put off by predictable and dull plots, repeated tropes and the same 1h30 slog of punching people, but now I just can't enjoy the action as much, even if I try. Even the post-credits scenes are getting tiresome now, though that's probably 100% related to the fact that I have no idea what they're on about any more and so my fault for not being more of a Marvel geek.

The highlight of this film was probably the Nick Fury assassination attempt sequence. Actually felt pretty tense.

1.Well dude, the last three marvel movies were handled in completely different ways. IM3 was an 80's action movie with a lot of quirky scenes and some off beat of humor. Thor was a fantasy adventure movie while Cap. America had a spy thriller vibe, and then you got the Guardians of the Galaxy which seems like some space madness/adventure.

2. When I watched IM3, The Wolverine, Thor, Cap.America and T.A. Spiderman almost everybody waited for the post credit scene, so I guess people were/are highly interested in them.

3. I never read a comic in my entire life, yet I understood perfectly well what's happening, and quite honestly I can't understand people who watch a movie of any fiction, supposedly like it, and don't feel the need find out more about it.

[Inkie]

1. I didn't say that they were the same films or had the same plots. I mean that in terms of content they have the same boundaries and tropes, though this doesn't make them too different from most other blockbusters to be fair.

2. I wait for them too, and I have never tried to claim that everybody else has the same tastes as me, lol.

3. So you're telling me you recognized all of the characters in the post-credit scenes and knew what their agendas were? So let's say for Winter Soldier, The Avengers and Thor 2.

Perhaps, as I said, I enjoy it for what it is, but just don't find the universe intriguing enough to read more about it. I'm not angry at not knowing whom the new characters in each post-credits scene is.

[Knight of Heaven]

...Which is not what I said. I'll reiterate: the past few post-credit scenes I've seen have been more Marvel-fan oriented. I'm fine with this.

Yes and i said someone that is a "fan" would take more of it then someone who isnt, thats all.

Eh, well I was into Spider Man quite a lot as a teen and I dabbled in some others, but Marvel is so vast that I'm a bit lost with most of them. So you're telling me I missed out on "character complexities" that I would have only noticed if I had read the Captain America comics?

Avenger comics, ( you didnt needed to read them, google is your friend) but mostly... did you even knew who the Winter Soldier was? did you cared? before going to watch the movie? did you noticed the charaterization of the characters? Both Cap, and Black Widow, or The winter Soldier? Read the series Secret avengers, and both cap, and Widow are spot on, Cap and Bucky iconic fighting poses are spot on, his characterization was amazing, even if he did not spoke much, you could feel his emotion just looking from his face and eyes, did you noticed Sharon carter in there( angent 13, wich is the love interest for Cap, and also Peggy carter Niece?, did you like that scene between Steve and an Older peggy Carter? that scene explains why Cap do what it does at the end too etc,
Did you noticed crossbones?, the litle easter eggs in Robert Redford fridge, and on fury Tombstone? and the
"GET ME OFF THE GRID!!" lol I could go on...
Honestly i wasnt expecting they to pull a solid movie like this, specialy when you compare IM3 and Thor2...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay, you found Winter Soldier superior to Thor and Spider Man. I did too tbh, yet I just wasn't hugely impressed by any of them. Is that okay? lol

And im saying it is a better film then those two... it is that ok? And now that i think about it, it might be better then the first Iron Man as well ( at least on the scale of epicness anyway).

A lot of this wasn't redeemed simply for the fact that I find Captain America to be far less entertaining than Tony Stark (meaning that he can't carry a film in the same way)

Nor he should ( character complexeties and such)... Steve Rogers is a very diferent character then tony stark... and i think they exagerate alot with the Tony Stark comedic stuff, specialy in the last two Iron man Movies, was extremely anoying at times, in fact they focused on telling jokes, then actualy telling a good story.

It seems like a lot of people really liked the conspiracy dynamic - I wish that had been the case for me as I wanted to have more fun with this, but it just didn't really spark.

Hey its your loss I think for what it was was quite decent film.... its all im saying. And i seen Amazing spider man 2 recently, The winter soldier is still a much better movie imo. I found TAS2 a mess and rushed as plotline goes, more focused on layering the story for things to come, then actualy telling a proper one in this film. That said i belive the saving grace of TAS2 was the actors performances and that infamous crucial scene near the end, they nailed it if i had to say Andrew garfield, Emma stone, and sally field were just amazing in this one, too bad they feel wasted, because overall the movie was mediocre, or average at best. (even i disliked the take on electro... totaly goofy and anoying...)

Btw:

Ultron GPS

[Inkie]

Yes and i said someone that is a "fan" would take more of it then someone who isnt, thats all.

Avenger comics, ( you didnt needed to read them, google is your friend) but mostly... did you even knew who the Winter Soldier was? did you cared? before going to watch the movie? did you noticed the charaterization of the characters? Both Cap, and Black Widow, or The winter Soldier? Read the series Secret avengers, and both cap, and Widow are spot on, Cap and Bucky iconic fighting poses are spot on, his characterization was amazing, even if he did not spoke much, you could feel his emotion just looking from his face and eyes, did you noticed Sharon carter in there( angent 13, wich is the love interest for Cap, and also Peggy carter Niece?, did you like that scene between Steve and an Older peggy Carter? that scene explains why Cap do what it does at the end too etc,
Did you noticed crossbones?, the litle easter eggs in Robert Redford fridge, and on fury Tombstone? and the
"GET ME OFF THE GRID!!" lol I could go on...
Honestly i wasnt expecting they to pull a solid movie like this, specialy when you compare IM3 and Thor2...

So it looks like there's a lot I missed out on: we have, like you said, easter eggs, attempts to make characters act just like they were in the comics, attempt to replicate "iconic fighting poses", character insertions, etc...

You see, with this I can see that they made a real effort to make the film something special for fans of the comics. This is completely fine, but they're things that obviously someone without prior knowledge before seeing the film can't appreciate, and so I had to look at the film how it stands independently, minus these bonuses. And yes, lol, I pay attention to "characterization of the characters" and did to Captain America in particular, by reading your post it seems that you really liked Evans' acting and the way the character was written. I myself didn't find either to be worth writing home about.

And im saying it is a better film then those two... it is that ok? And now that i think about it, it might be better then the first Iron Man as well ( at least on the scale of epicness anyway).

hehe, it seemed as though you were a bit taken aback by what I said, so I had thought you misinterpreted, and therefore misinterpreted you myself. I never actually said I thought they were of the same qualitative standard.

Nor he should ( character complexeties and such)... Steve Rogers is a very diferent character then tony stark... and i think they exagerate alot with the Tony Stark comedic stuff, specialy in the last two Iron man Movies, was extremely anoying at times, in fact they focused on telling jokes, then actualy telling a good story.

Suit yourself. Indeed they're different characters (no ) I find that Stark/Downey Jr. has a personal charm that can carry a film, I don't find that Cap/Evans has this. The quality of the films themselves besides their lead characters isn't really what we're discussing.

Hey its your loss I think for what it was was quite decent film.... its all im saying.
Btw:

Ultron GPS

Yes, it's my loss indeed.

the video was pretty funny, reminded me of HISHE a bit. Though I can't help but wince a little every time I see something from Machinima nowadays.

[Knight of Heaven]

And yes, lol, I pay attention to "characterization of the characters" and did to Captain America in particular, by reading your post it seems that you really liked Evans' acting and the way the character was written. I myself didn't find either to be worth writing home about.

I was talking about sebastian Stan, not Evans though.... however i think Evans did just fine, better then earlier movies... and played the role that was meant to but what i found most interesting was his chemistry with Scarlett, those two realy were great in this movie imo, finaly some character development for Widow. But above all what i liked more, it wasnt actualy Evans performance, as much, but how they handled the character captain america, how they did developed the character.

I pay attention to "characterization of the characters" and did to Captain America in particular

I meant their uniforms, and how they look, they are just spot on from the comics, how they moved etc, it was just very iconic, and very well pulled out, and the action scenes, were the best i seen on a Marvel Movie, ( and i mean Grounded action scenes)
btw some easter eggs arent even marvel or comic related, just popular knowledge ( Paul Newman Sauce on Robert Redford fridge, or ezquiel 25:17 on Fury tombstone ( a nod to Samuel lee jackson pulp fiction character)

hehe, it seemed as though you were a bit taken aback by what I said

Please....

I never actually said I thought they were of the same qualitative standard.

I disagree... if it wasnt already clear, i think The winter soldier deserves to be above those on several accounts.

This is completely fine, but they're things that obviously someone without prior knowledge before seeing the film can't appreciate, and so I had to look at the film how it stands independently, minus these bonuses.

And thats what i said since the beginning... this movies tend to say more to fans of the MCU or marvel fans generaly speaking.
Regardless i dont expect to see oscar worthy films or blown away performances, thats not realy the thing ...

Suit yourself. Indeed they're different characters (no ) I find that Stark/Downey Jr. has a personal charm that can carry a film, I don't find that Cap/Evans has this. The quality of the films themselves besides their lead characters isn't really what we're discussing.

They are diferent characters because they need to be diferent characters, its how they are.... actor charm or no charm its irrelevant, they are diferent characters in the comics and other midia too, they even clash sometimes ( hell at times quite literally) but speaking at the quality of the films themselfs, i belive this is one of the best marvel movies to date, and i dont seem to be alone in this, looking at the how the film was recieved by critics and fans a like, and how well is doing.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Inkie]

btw some easter eggs arent even marvel or comic related, just popular knowledge ( Paul Newman Sauce on Robert Redford fridge, or ezquiel 25:17 on Fury tombstone ( a nod to Samuel lee jackson pulp fiction character)

We're talking about Marvel-related easter eggs though.

Please....

Well excuse me for misinterpreting you

I disagree... if it wasnt already clear, i think The winter soldier deserves to be above those on several accounts.

I have already said this several times so no, you don't disagree. What I said is that I don't find any of them hugely exciting - that's where we disagree.

And thats what i said since the beginning... this movies tend to say more to fans of the MCU or marvel fans generaly speaking.

Totally, and though if I had been a Captain America fan it might have made a big difference to all of the little details, I doubt it would have made me find core aspects of the film (plot, action etc.) more interesting to me. Probably the characters, because I would be concerning myself more with how faithful they are to the originals, than how interestingly their roles were scripted regardless of this.

They are diferent characters because they need to be diferent characters, its how they are.... actor charm or no charm its irrelevant, they are diferent characters in the comics and other midia too, they even clash sometimes ( hell at times quite literally) but speaking at the quality of the films themselfs, i belive this is one of the best marvel movies to date, and i dont seem to be alone in this, looking at the how the film was recieved by critics and fans a like, and how well is doing.

It's as if you're saying "they're different...they're different...stop preferring one of them - they're deliberately different!"

Yup, I already said above that I'm well aware of how popular the film is

[The Despondent Mind]

Winter Soldier, The Avengers and Thor 2.

The Avengers was incredibly easy, I couldn't remember name of one character in WA, but I knew who he was. The only character that was completely new to me was the Collector, but I knew what was happening there.

[Knight of Heaven]

It's as if you're saying "they're different...they're different...stop preferring one of them - they're deliberately different!"

Im not prefering one actor above the other... im saying The winter soldier film is a better film then the iron man 2 and 3 movies, or the best film coming from marvel on Phase 2 at least. Its probably the most solid marvel film to date...
But if you must know yeah cap used to be one of my favorite characters in the marvel universe for several reasons. Tony in the comics was fine, but i dont think was that aluring for me as other characters. Tony in the movies made the character much more interesting, mostly because RDJ then anything else imo.

I have already said this several times so no, you don't disagree. What I said is that I don't find any of them hugely exciting - that's where we disagree.

Well that is irrelevant, from a objective point of view The winter soldier is much more well rounded and better made movie. I still find the Avengers much more fun, but not necessarly a better movie as a whole.
Then again TWS is a standalone, and in that i think is most acomlished.
You might not like the film, wich is fine, exciting is also relative. It depends if you are interested in the MCU or not from the get go imo.
And speaking of exciting, i never went to see Amazing Spider Man at the theatres, back when it was on...( it is also not a Marvel studios movie though), and if im honest im not as interested in Spiderman films, even if i think Andrew Garfield is a much better Peter/Spiderman then Tobey Maguire. Too much spiderMan in a decade or two i guess.

The Avengers was incredibly easy, I couldn't remember name of one character in WA, but I knew who he was and the only character that was completely new to me was the Collector, but I knew what was happening there.

I dont know i went with people to watch avengers and they were glad to see thanos, but when i asked if they knew who he was, they didnt... wich was weird...lol ( i guess they were exicted because it layered stuff for future films etc) i dont think most people would Know who Thanos is, without seen him in some cartoons, or in the comics. Much less his significance.

[Inkie]

Yeah this is a bit like two autists having an argument. I normally enjoy discussion but it looks like we're not really understanding each other's points in a very consistent manner, so I'm going to make like the banana.

[saxdude]

You, I thhink we can give this discussion a pass.