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Thread: Rome II Player Retention

  1. #1

    Default Rome II Player Retention

    There have been a lot of comments about Steam player numbers for Rome II and what they say about the game, so I though it would be interesting to do a bit of statistical analysis. I'm going to start with a made up example to illustrate a point and then move on to actual numbers from Rome II and Shogun 2.

    Numbers are taken from steamgraph.net and were collected on Friday 18th October). Note that the numbers from steamgraph.net and steamcharts.com do not match exactly, and I think steamcharts.com are slightly more accurate, but it does not go back far enough to cover the launch of Shogun 2. Neither site has data for the launch of any other Total War game.

    So, first the made up example. What happens if you have two games which each sell 40,000 copies, everyone plays the game the day they buy it and each lose 3% of their playerbase day-on-day, but one game has sales all at launch and the others has sales equally spread over four days?



    What happens now if you try to compare the two games based purely on their active players on any particular day and their peak players (plotting [players on day x]/[maximum players on any one day] against [day])?



    It appears that Game B is doing better than Game A, but this is misleading. Remember they both have exactly the same sales and are losing players at exactly the same rate. So how can we accurately see how the games are doing relative to each other? We can plot the proportion of players lost between each day and the next (plotting [players on day x + 1]/[players on day x] against [day]):



    As you can see, the ramp up of players over the first four days shows up (inaccurately) as a massive advantage for Game B, but after that both games are shown to be losing players at exactly the same rate.

    Now we'll look at some real numbers:



    Note how, except for differing scales and a clear weekly cycle the two data sets roughly mirror the shape of our made up example.

    Now let's perform the same initial comparison of active players on any particular day and their peak players (plotting [players on day x]/[maximum players on any one day] against [day]):



    Again, ignoring the clear weekly cycle, this graph roughly mirrors the shape of our previous made up example, although the gap is clearly wider. Things don't look good for Rome II, but we know this isn't necessarily the whole truth.

    Next we'll apply our second comparison of the proportion of players lost between each day and the next (plotting [players on day x + 1]/[players on day x] against [day]):



    Once again, ignoring the clear weekly cycle, this graph roughly mirrors the shape we saw before. It's very difficult to draw any conclusion from this graph because the weekly variations are so large in comparison to the differences between the two titles. Remember the values in this graph must be compounded (all multiplied together) to produce the previous graph, which is why the differences are so much smaller.

    Now let's try to remove the weekly cycle by taking a seven-day running average:



    This graph again roughly mirrors our equivalent comparison for the made up data. There are a few differences though. For seven or so data points Rome II is clearly doing much worse than our example, indicating that Rome II did have very poor player retention for the first week or two after launch. After that however things change and Rome II first gets back on a rough par with Shogun 2 and then actually tends to overtake it. After about three weeks Rome II is regularly retaining a higher proportion of players from day to day than Shogun 2 did at the equivalent point in the game's lifetime.

    Just to reinforce that point, here a graph of the averaged retention data with Rome II's value shown as a proportion of Shogun 2's. Anywhere the line is above 1 Rome II is retaining more players on average than Shogun 2 for that (overlapping) seven day period:


    The raw data for each graph should be attached to this post as an attachment (zip of csv's), if I've done everything correctly.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by the_eye; December 24, 2013 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Images now on third-party server

  2. #2
    karamazovmm's Avatar スマトラ警備隊
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    interesting, can you plot some tendencies as well?

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    "We've had more gamers playing Rome II, and for longer, in its first month than any other Total War to date," said The Creative Assembly's Mike Simpson.
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/...ree-for-a-week

  4. #4
    ChairmanCrassus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Most of this decline is due to the large number of preorders. People preordered more Rome 2 than Shogun 2. Why?


    • Rome is more interesting to the western market than Japan.
    • There was more hype for Rome 2 than Shogun 2.
    • Rome 1 was a VERY popular game (also years ahead of its time) but Shogun 1 was not a popular game.
    • To buy Shogun 2 you either had to be into the whole Japanese thing or you needed to be a diehard fan of TW. A broader market ordered Rome 2.


    There are many more external factors which complicate statistical analysis and make the two games difficult to compare.

    Rome 2 declined at faster rate than Shogun 2 because:
    • Technical bugs
    • It didn't replicate the Rome 1 gameplay which people had 9 years to fall in love with (they are based on two different engines after all)
    • For many people this was the first TW game they ever played (and they didn't like the TW 'experience')
    • The people who love Japan tend to really love Japan (Japanese themed games are an extension of this)


    http://steamgraph.net/index.php?acti...q214950&from=0
    Last edited by ChairmanCrassus; October 23, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
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  5. #5
    karamazovmm's Avatar スマトラ警備隊
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanCrassus View Post
    Most of this decline is due to the large number of preorders. People preordered more Rome 2 than Shogun 2. Why?


    • Rome is more interesting to the western market than Japan.
    • There was more hype for Rome 2 than Shogun 2.
    • Rome 1 was a VERY popular game (also years ahead of its time) but Shogun 1 was not a popular game.
    • To buy Shogun 2 you either had to be into the whole Japanese thing or you needed to be a diehard fan of TW. A broader market ordered Rome 2.


    There are many more external factors which complicate statistical analysis and make the two games difficult to compare.

    Rome 2 declined at faster rate than Shogun 2 because:
    • Technical bugs
    • It didn't replicate the Rome 1 gameplay which people had 9 years to fall in love with (they are based on two different engines after all)
    • For many people this was the first TW game they ever played (and they didn't like the TW 'experience')
    • The people who love Japan tend to really love Japan (Japanese themed games are an extension of this)


    http://steamgraph.net/index.php?acti...q214950&from=0
    this is entirely based on nothing

    The very ugly forgive, but beauty is essential - Vinicius de Moraes

  6. #6
    ChairmanCrassus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Quote Originally Posted by Karamazovmm View Post
    this is entirely based on nothing
    My guess is as good as yours.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Quote Originally Posted by Karamazovmm View Post
    interesting, can you plot some tendencies as well?
    Good idea. If the data does fit the pattern a×bx then we can take plot of log(players) and fit a line using linear least squares regression. The slope and intercept of the line will give us a and b. I should say at this point that although I originally presented an example with exactly this formula I don't believe it will be a good fit for the data. My original expectation was that the data would fit the sum of three such series (i.e. a×bx + c×dx + e×fx). The original example was illustrative only and I kept to a single series for simplicity. It is also important to point out that with some very small caveats all of the points about the original example still hold with a sum of series.

    That said, if we do model the data as a simple a×bx we get the following equations (using the data from my previous post, plus an additional 7 days worth of data):

    Rome II: 79686.1091119406 × 0.9749601828x
    Shogun 2: 34178.518191299 × 0.9744597318x

    Which looks like (including a full half-year's data for Shogun 2, this is for comparison only - it was not used to fit the equation):



    This is clearly a nonsense. But what happens if we move to less pure statistical methods, model the data as a sum of two series and fit the data by eye? I came up with the following (fitting the equation to the full set of available data - a half year of Shogun 2 and everything to date for Rome II):

    Rome II: 30000 × 0.998x + 90000 × 0.91x
    Shogun 2: 10000 × 0.998x + 30000 × 0.95x

    Which gives:



    I think that's looking pretty good. If we accept this as a good fit to the data the implications are that there are two groups of players. The 'hardcore' which is three times as large for Rome II as for Shogun 2 but otherwise identical and the 'casuals', which are also three times as large for Rome II as for Shogun 2 but are leaving at 9% per day for Rome II compared to 5% per day for Shogun 2.

    We can take this a step further by including an approximation for the weekly cycle, modelling the data as (abx + cdx) × f(x), where f gives a different multiplier for each of the seven days of the week. Again, fitting the data by eye (my f functions were derived last week by modelling a subset of the data as abx and taking the average deviation between that and the real data - I could probably do slightly better now with a different model):

    Rome II: (26500 × 0.999x + 85000 × 0.91x) * fRome II(x)
    Shogun 2: (9500 × 0.998x + 30500 × 0.945x) * fShogun 2(x)

    Where:

    Code:
                   0.978412443,     x = 0 (mod 7)
                   0.9366720102,    x = 1 (mod 7)
                   0.9345420418,    x = 2 (mod 7)
    fRome II(x) = { 0.9756896093,    x = 3 (mod 7)
                   1.1355291687,    x = 4 (mod 7)
                   1.232026096,     x = 5 (mod 7)
                   1.0825580142,    x = 6 (mod 7)
    
                    0.9804374065,    x = 0 (mod 7)
                    0.948469858,     x = 1 (mod 7)
                    0.9471135231,    x = 2 (mod 7)
    fShogun 2(x) = { 0.9758807701,    x = 3 (mod 7)
                    1.1021159256,    x = 4 (mod 7)
                    1.1781349105,    x = 5 (mod 7)
                    1.0915161481,    x = 6 (mod 7)
    This gives us:



    Which looks like a pretty good fit to me. How good? Let's look at the model as a proportion of the actual data:



    The vast majority of the time the prediction is within ±10%, which is not bad at all. Obviously there's a lot less certaintly in the model for Rome II, but if we accept these models we can conclude that the Rome II 'hardcore' is slightly less than three times the size of the Shogun 2 'hardcore', but is declining more slowly and the Rome II 'casuals' are also slightly less than three times the size of the Shogun 2 'casuals', but are declining a fair bit faster.
    Last edited by the_eye; December 24, 2013 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Images now on third-party server

  8. #8
    Wolar's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    +Rep for the statistics work.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Wow! Great work.

  10. #10
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Quote Originally Posted by Karamazovmm View Post
    this is entirely based on nothing
    *cough*

    I can agree with Crassus very much. Even we cannot point things out on a "Suketh-level" the things claimed still make sense and are fairly logical presumptions.


    Great thread eye. Repped you. Finally someone took the time to iron out a valid flaw my thread had.
    Last edited by alQamar; October 26, 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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  11. #11
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    so basically the market for rome can be said to be 3 times the size of shogun. damn. I thought it was 40% not buying, that is off by about 20% , it is 60% not buying games not set in the west
    fear is helluva drug
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    but but metacritic

  13. #13

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    fact: despise the ugly start (launch) and the issues this game still having at this point 27k peak per day... seems like miracle for rome 2 at this state and in middle of barrage of critics ^___^ (this when i check, it might not be 100% accurate if checked on different time zone)
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  14. #14
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Oh by the way Steamgraphs is the most reliable source as it meets more or less exactly with the actual Steam stats. I used it since release to have a second confirmation on the official Steam stats. Only once they differed for 2 days, as it seems Steam Rome 2 stats weren't properly updated to Steam.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Actually the game is doing much better than I thought. That's good though.

  16. #16
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Hi guys,

    while analysing games on Steam and steamgraph in additional, to find out that no game lost so many players in the first 4 weeks as Rome 2, here comes a suprisingly other example.

    http://steamgraph.net/index.php?acti...rom=1382220912

    I played the games alpha and beta and yes I wish all games would run on this rule, not degenerating but increasing participation over time
    How refreshing.
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  17. #17
    crzyrndm's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Quote Originally Posted by alQamar View Post
    I played the games alpha and beta and yes I wish all games would run on this rule, not degenerating but increasing participation over time
    How refreshing.
    My sneaking suspicion with PoE is that it being F2P has something to do with it. The alternative would be word of mouth advertising, but I have no idea how big/small the campaign was.
    You can see a similar trend (if a little more spiky) with some of the early access games (KSP for example), as the game grows, so does the permanent playerbase.

    For a big name game (not F2P) with significant advertising to not drop sharply in the first month is certainly extremely unusual
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  18. #18
    craziii's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    poe takes about 1 month to figure out then you will know it is a piece of turd.
    fear is helluva drug
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    “The only rule that ever made sense to me I learned from a history, not an economics, professor at Wharton. "Fear," he used to say, "fear is the most valuable commodity in the universe." That blew me away. "Turn on the TV," he'd say. "What are you seeing? People selling their products? No. People selling the fear of you having to live without their products." freakin' A, was he right. Fear of aging, fear of loneliness, fear of poverty, fear of failure. Fear is the most basic emotion we have. Fear is primal. Fear sells.” WWZ

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  19. #19
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Well I could not share your opinon, actually it is the best of the latest RPS games I've played and very much like Diablo 3 should have been, instead of a big named rip off.

    After playing it more than a year I could tell you very certain this game is not a piece of turd nor P2W nor anything I dislike other some - not all - F2P games. /OT end
    Last edited by alQamar; October 26, 2013 at 06:38 PM.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Rome II Player Retention

    Is a game good or beyond criticism just because a lot of players are currently playing it?

    I mean RTW and Starcraft were quite popular back then but few people play it now. Perhaps one of the real reasons games like Rome2 have such a large player base may be more because it's the best they can get, as opposed to actually BEING a good game.

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