Chinese air defenses in Turkey a ‘virus’ for NATO

[Braindead Colonel]

The "whining" was not about Greece acquiring S-300s but it was about Greece wanting to position them on Cyprus.

The Republic of Cyprus (not a member of NATO) bought the missiles.
Turkey (which currently occupies about a third of Cyprus' territory) threatened military action.
In order to appease Turkey, the missiles were stationed in Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Missile_Crisis

[PointOfViewGun]

The Republic of Cyprus (not a member of NATO) bought the missiles.
Turkey (which currently occupies about a third of Cyprus' territory) threatened military action.
In order to appease Turkey, the missiles were stationed in Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Missile_Crisis

Oh, yeah, I forgot that Greece "did not" buy them first...

[Stavroforos]

So, why did you lie about the S-300s, Seth?

[PointOfViewGun]

So, why did you lie about the S-300s, Seth?

What did I lie about, Stav? That Greece got S-300 or that they wanted them to be stationed on Cyprus?

[Stavroforos]

The "whining" was not about Greece acquiring S-300s but it was about Greece wanting to position them on Cyprus.

Greece didn't want to position them on Cyprus. Cyprus wanted to position them on Cyprus. You lied.

[PointOfViewGun]

Greece didn't want to position them on Cyprus. Cyprus wanted to position them on Cyprus. You lied.

You got a source on that?

[Stavroforos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Missile_Crisis

[PointOfViewGun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Missile_Crisis

Don't see anything there indicating that Greece didn't want Cyprus to have S-300s. In fact, it even states how Greece was willing to defend the missiles on Cyprus and sent jet fighters and additional troops to the island. Did you lie, Stav?

[Stavroforos]

You said Greece wanted to position them on Cyprus, when it was in fact the Cypriots who wanted to position them on Cyprus. The Turks got angry because they don't believe Cyprus should defend itself from proven aggression.

[PointOfViewGun]

You said Greece wanted to position them on Cyprus, when it was in fact the Cypriots who wanted to position them on Cyprus. The Turks got angry because they don't believe Cyprus should defend itself from proven aggression.

You do realize wanting something is not exclusive to just one party? Or did you lie, Stav?

[Stavroforos]

I assume this is the part where you wiggle yourself out of your original statement. Classic Seth.

[PointOfViewGun]

I assume this is the part where you wiggle yourself out of your original statement. Classic Seth.

I am not. I can say it very firmly that Greece wanted the missiles on the island. You proved it for me, so thanks for that. What I'm trying to figure out now is if you lied or not. Will you continue for an other page to dance around that?

[Stavroforos]

Cyprus wanted the missiles on the island. Greece supported Cyprus defending itself, Turkey did not.

[alhoon]

The only NATO member that designs and builds theatre level surface to air missile systems is the US. The UK (which funnily enough is a lot more than just "England") and France don't even use such missile systems, much less sell them.

There is some truth in the original argument that buying a Chinese system would have implications for integration into existing NATO forces. It's actually a requirement to be a NATO member that your equipment meets certain standards for integration - one of the cornerstones of NATO policy and doctrine is that *all* member states' forces should be able to integrate at a battlefield level. However, there is also more than a grain of truth in your point that the US is protecting its own defence industry and doesn't want NATO members buying stuff from outside NATO, especially when the product in question is in a category which the US has been the sole provider for a long time now.

Yes, it's true that only USA sells such missiles but I'm sure the big gun sellers like England, Germany and France aren't happy that NATO members are looking outside the family for guns. I'm certain that to a degree some French/UK/German weapon dealer is thinking "Will they buy ships/arty/tanks/rifles from China next? What about X poor country? Will they opt for cheaper Chinese guns too?"

[Heinz Guderian]

All nationalism aside, whats the best cost effective air-defence system out there for Turkey?

American, Russian, European or Chinese?

[white-wolf]

Chinese.

(Plus; technological transfer for future systems)

[Love Mountain]

Yes, it's true that only USA sells such missiles but I'm sure the big gun sellers like England, Germany and France aren't happy that NATO members are looking outside the family for guns. I'm certain that to a degree some French/UK/German weapon dealer is thinking "Will they buy ships/arty/tanks/rifles from China next? What about X poor country? Will they opt for cheaper Chinese guns too?"

Ha, maybe. Which is insanity in my opinoin. Why would you trust a Chinese copy when you can get a good, high-quality product from Europe? Besides, if Turks want something cheap Russia is more than happy to sell their arms to virtually anyone with cash.

All nationalism aside, whats the best cost effective air-defence system out there for Turkey?

American, Russian, European or Chinese?

I'd have to say Russia. Russians are experts in manufacturing SAMs. For years Russian military analysts have been claiming that they are 20 years ahead of everyone in missile technology, and behind in conventional arms by the same amount. I for one am willing to trust Russians on this one. Russian weapon systems are revolved primarily around missiles. Everything from their Kirov cruisers, ordnance delivery systems, to mobile SAMs and rocket artillery. Russians know how to make those things well and rugged.

I remember Yugoslavians begging for Russian S-300s during the 90s when the NATO was bombing the hell out of them. Probably for a good reason.

[Odenat]

Chinese.

(Plus; technological transfer for future systems)

Technological transfer for future systems is one of the main reasons for the choice. Turkey is already manufacturing a lot of defence equipment but we are weak when it comes to missile systems.

American&European systems does not allow the customization of air defence system for enemy aircraft which means the system always thinks of Israeli aircraft as friendly for example.

[Vanoi]

I say Russian, but not S-300s. S-300s are just big targets nowadays. At least for nations with the advance means to take them out.

[alhoon]

American&European systems does not allow the customization of air defence system for enemy aircraft which means the system always thinks of Israeli aircraft as friendly for example.

That can't be true.